Corbyn stepping down

[LuisDantas]

One referendum and 3 (three) general elections with manifesto pledges to enforce the result.

I just don't know what you mean to say here by referencing the elections.

One of the reasons Labour lost so badly was continued insistence from many that these people's votes "didn't count" because they are too stupid and racist to know what they are doing.

Perhaps. There is however a reason why it is so tempting to say that.

 

[Augustus]

Yes! That's what we're missing in life, more action, more blood...

Jezza was pretty exciting with his IRA and Hamas mates and taking money from the Iranian government.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes! That's what we're missing in life, more action, more blood...

Labour need a reality check, more than anything, momentum they thought they had, how stupid they look now

 

[England my lionheart]

It's not over for labour yet, in the new year the report from the Equality and Human Rights Commission on antisemtism in the Labour party , so the **** could hit the fan on that too.

 

[Rival]

I just don't know what you mean to say here by referencing the elections.

Labour on Brexit:

Ummmmmmmm.

Tories on Brexit:

Let's do this, boys.

Tories were voted in 3 times. The inference is right there.

 

[Augustus]

I just don't know what you mean to say here by referencing the elections.

That winning 3 free and fair elections with manifesto pledges to implement a particular policy gives you a pretty solid democratic mandate to implement that particular policy. Especially if the electorate also got to vote in a referendum on that particular policy.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The future of the Labour Party, whatever happens, is deeply uncertain because this is such a profoundly right-wing age and it is really debatable what role a centre-left party can play in it. This isn't unique to Britain but has happened all over Europe as "Pasokification" (named after the collapse of the Greek centre-left party). So it is really anyone's guess what Labour will do now.

Being cynical, he's probably going to try and consolidate his base within the party and ensure that his successor will continue his policies. They probably don't want Labour to go to the right/move back to the centre (where ever that is now). If the Labour Party tried moving to the right, it would only consolidate Johnson's victory by ensuring Labour surrenders to Johnson's policy positions. Basically, they need to make sure a Labour civil war doesn't turn in to a major split between the centrist and centre-left factions.

Personally, I'm genuinely at a loss to know what the options even are for centre-left/far-left politics now as we have basically gone further and further to the right since the 1980's. Johnson's win is simply a continuation and exaggeration of that process. So who the **** knows?

This must be seen for what it is. The electoral system in the UK creates a land slide when only 5% of voters switch sides. on average over the entire country, only 5% 0f Labour voters switched sides this time.
This had a massive effect on the number of seat won by both the Tories and Labour. in terms of votes the totals hardly changed at all.
One of the biggest changes was for the Lib Dems who Gained some 4% total votes but lost a seat.

When the political wind changes again, an equally small change in votes will produce an equally strong result.

As to Corbin, he is a man of the past, promoting equally outdated ideas. he is history.
If any thing, the losses will bring a fresh start to the labour party, it is up to them to understand that, and make the most of the opportunity.

 

[England my lionheart]

Jezza was pretty exciting with his IRA and Hamas mates and taking money from the Iranian government.

You forgot venezuela

 

[Martin]

Bring back Blair - all (mostly) is forgiven.

Those were the days (don't mention Iraq!). But seriously, I do worry that Labour will remain unelectable until they return to the centre ground. But that seems unlikely with Corbinistas and Momentum clinging to power.
I do hope Jess or Lisa will get a serious chance as leader.

 

[Notanumber]

Those were the days (don't mention Iraq!). But seriously, I do worry that Labour will remain unelectable until they return to the centre ground. But that seems unlikely with Corbinistas and Momentum clinging to power.
I do hope Jess or Lisa will get a serious chance as leader.

The centre ground is already occupied by the Tories.

 

[Martin]

The centre ground is already occupied by the Tories.

For the time being, at least. It remains to be seen how long they'll be able to hold that ground. Much will depend on NHS waiting lists, crime figures, poverty levels, etc.

 

[Mock Turtle]

My favourite is his insistence that he "won the argument"

Might as well say "We were right, it's not my fault that the electorate was wrong."

Very consoling I find.

They certainly don't inspire confidence that they have learned from their mistakes.

Believers. Not easy to accept they are wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

Labour on Brexit:

Ummmmmmmm.

Tories on Brexit:

Let's do this, boys.

Tories were voted in 3 times. The inference is right there.

The inference that Labour should have taken a clear stance and campaigned harder, without the ambiguity that will curse Corbyn's memory?

Honestly, that is the inference that is clear to make far as I am concerned.

 

[LuisDantas]

That winning 3 free and fair elections with manifesto pledges to implement a particular policy gives you a pretty solid democratic mandate to implement that particular policy. Especially if the electorate also got to vote in a referendum on that particular policy.

Oh, I get you know.

You are failing to consider how broken the 2016 referendum was, and how badly abusive the Tories' insistence on throwing Leavers a bone in order to remain in power was.

I should have expected that, but I am sometimes oddly optimistic about people's judgement.

 

[Rival]

The inference that Labour should have taken a clear stance and campaigned harder, without the ambiguity that will curse Corbyn's memory?

Honestly, that is the inference that is clear to make far as I am concerned.

Their stance was and is Remain, we've always known that. They just never outright said so since millions of Labour voters voted Leave. They were petrified losing half their base. And what do you know?

 

[Augustus]

Believers. Not easy to accept they are wrong.

"We compromised our principles and didn't go far enough!"

 

[Martin]

Their stance was and is Remain, we've always known that. They just never outright said so since millions of Labour voters voted Leave. They were petrified losing half their base. And what do you know?

But as a Northern lass, will you stand as the new Labour leader?

 

[Rival]

But as a Northern lass, will you stand as the new Labour leader?

Nah. I'm mostly a Tory voter, tbh.

 

[Augustus]

Oh, I get you know.

You are failing to consider how broken the 2016 referendum was, and how badly abusive the Tories' insistence on throwing Leavers a bone in order to remain in power was.

You are failing to consider that the 'broken' 2016 referendum was carried out in accordance with what was stated in their electoral manifesto and was ratified in 2 further general elections which included options for people to vote for parties offering another referendum.

'Abusively throwing leavers a bone' might carry more weight if the leavers hadn't won a nationwide referendum.

There are arguments against referendums, sure, but when they are carried out in accordance to a manifesto pledge and ratified in multiple further general elections, the 'undemocratic' line is somewhat hollow.

What would be your requirements for a Brexit that was 'democratic'?

 

[Harel13]

Nah. I'm mostly a Tory voter, tbh.

Hey, you could bring about the joining of the Tories and Labour...you secretly act like a Labour member and then reveal your true colors when it's too late...