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Corbyn stepping down
- Thread starter Harel13
- Start date
Altfish
Veteran Member
But when?
Unless something else has happened he's only said that he will not lead the party into another general election. So he could stay in place for another 4 years, unlikely but possible.
Hmm. Good point...
Guess we'll just have to wait.
The future of the Labour Party, whatever happens, is deeply uncertain because this is such a profoundly right-wing age and it is really debatable what role a centre-left party can play in it. This isn't unique to Britain but has happened all over Europe as "Pasokification" (named after the collapse of the Greek centre-left party). So it is really anyone's guess what Labour will do now.
Being cynical, he's probably going to try and consolidate his base within the party and ensure that his successor will continue his policies. They probably don't want Labour to go to the right/move back to the centre (where ever that is now). If the Labour Party tried moving to the right, it would only consolidate Johnson's victory by ensuring Labour surrenders to Johnson's policy positions. Basically, they need to make sure a Labour civil war doesn't turn in to a major split between the centrist and centre-left factions.
Personally, I'm genuinely at a loss to know what the options even are for centre-left/far-left politics now as we have basically gone further and further to the right since the 1980's. Johnson's win is simply a continuation and exaggeration of that process. So who the **** knows?
It would be criminal for that terrorist boot licker to lead the party after the humiliating defeat he inflicted on it.
Notanumber
A Free Man
If only the Corbynista led Labour Party was only centre-left instead of being extreme-left the citizens of the UK would not have felt so threatened by the prospect of them gaining power.
Personally, I don't regard Labour as a far-left party, mainly because I spent too much time round the far left. That being said there was a fair number of activities from the far left got involved in Labour and I did catch myself occasionally thinking, "hey, that's out of the Communist Party of Britain's programme!" But as the political spectrum (or overturn window) has moved further and further to the right, more political positions get lumped together as "far left", "communist", "socialist", "marxist", etc regardless of what might actually be the case.
In fairness, it's much like calling Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson a "fascist"; it's done for propaganda appeal and it's negative associations, not necessarily because it is an accurate reflection of what they stand for. We're closer to fascism today than 20 years ago, but still a long way off from storm-troopers and gas chambers. The neo-nazi forums I've looked at seem very ambivalent to it all because they think it's all "Jewish lies" by the establishment who will sell out the white race.
Augustus
…
Not sure it is profoundly right wing.
The problem for the centre left is that their traditional voter (working class and urban progressive) base has fragmented as they are largely contemptuous of each other. One group thinks the other is comprised of stupid, bigoted racists who can't think for themselves, and one thinks the other is arrogant, out of touch and contemptuous of their genuine concerns.
I predict he will be far closer to the centre than people think.
exchemist
Veteran Member
It was Attlee who said,"The people's flag is palest pink."
The far-left entryists who have taken over the Labour Party will try hard not to heed that lesson. They are trying to pin their defeat on Brexit and on Corbyn's personal unsuitability. But that's self-exculpating crap.
I think Seumas Milne will want Corbyn to stay on just long enough for him to engineer the succession of the uncharismatic and barn owl -faced Rebecca Long-Bailey as his new public face. If that happens I foresee ten years of Bozolini. So that will be largely Labour's fault.
The options for far-left politics in the UK are to give up or emigrate. Britain has never seriously entertained far-left politics and I do not think it ever will.
Augustus
…
I have heard that the "red wall" of labour support is crumbling in the north of England from the guardian and that certainly seems to be a factor.
But Boris Johnson will sell them out and throw them under the bus. I have no illusions on this one.
The options for world politics is to fight climate change or bring the end of civilisation as we know it. We are not fighting climate change but are electing fantasists who make promises they can't keep. The far left is nearly dead, but capitalism and democracy are well on the way to collective sucicide and everyone will suffer for it. so we will have to wait and see who the future belongs to.
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It's warmer where the Tories are
exchemist
Veteran Member
Yup, the first period being ushered in by what happened last time Labour went far left, under Michael Foot and Wedgie Benn. Corbyn's lot (McDonnell, Lansman, Abbott) date from that era and have been just as unsuccessful. I fact it looks like history repeating itself, save that, unlike Thatcher, Bozo has no driving ideology other than personal ambition.
But I do not believe Long-Bailey, or another from the new generation will magically make a far left prospectus enticing either. Ether they dump this far left stuff and appoint Starmer or Benn to lead them back towards the centre, or we will get a decade of Bozo.
Augustus
…
I wonder what would have happened if Ed Milliband hadn't decided to stand against his brother, and there hadn't been his inept leadership giving Cameron an open goal, and he hadn't changed the rules for selecting the leader, so there wouldn't have been a Corbyn, and the far left wouldn't have taken control of the party apparatus and forced out the centrists...
Notanumber
A Free Man
Personally, I don't regard Labour as a far-left party, mainly because I spent too much time round the far left. That being said there was a fair number of activities from the far left got involved in Labour and I did catch myself occasionally thinking, "hey, that's out of the Communist Party of Britain's programme!" But as the political spectrum (or overturn window) has moved further and further to the right, more political positions get lumped together as "far left", "communist", "socialist", "marxist", etc regardless of what might actually be the case.
In fairness, it's much like calling Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson a "fascist"; it's done for propaganda appeal and it's negative associations, not necessarily because it is an accurate reflection of what they stand for. We're closer to fascism today than 20 years ago, but still a long way off from storm-troopers and gas chambers. The neo-nazi forums I've looked at seem very ambivalent to it all because they think it's all "Jewish lies" by the establishment who will sell out the white race.
Not everyone sees the Labour Party in the same light as you.
Jewish Labour supporters hail Britain's 'damning verdict' on Jeremy Corbyn | Daily Mail Online
Rachel Riley leads Jewish Brits' joy as 'anti-Semitic' Labour get thrashed
Ken Livingstone: 'the Jewish vote wasn't very helpful' to Labour | Daily Mail Online
Michael Gove tells Britain's Jews 'you should never live in fear again' after defeating Corbyn's Labour
Jeremy Corbyn's anti-Semitism crisis deepens with leaked Labour documents | Daily Mail Online
exchemist
Veteran Member
I often wonder the same thing. I think May would have lost the election and we would be looking now at a Norway Brexit deal, perhaps subject to a confirmatory referendum. (We may yet get a Norway deal, by the way, once Bozo realises how hard it will be to negotiate anything very different in the time he is giving himself.)
But equally importantly for the health of our democracy, I think we would not have had the mass exodus from politics of so many politicians I respected, in both Labour and Conservative parties.
Changing the rules for Labour party membership and voting was a disaster. I don't blame Miliband entirely: I think we all thought Militant Tendency and the rest of the Trots were long dead or in their bath chairs. But it turns out they persisted, like anthrax spores, ready to re-infect the party when conditions were right.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Climate change is nothing to do with Left vs Right or capitalism vs socialism. It belongs on another axis. There is so much hypocritical rubbish talked on this subject it is unbelievable. We are all responsible and it is the way we all live that does it. Nobody is giving up his car, or spending £10,000 to install a heat pump for his house, yet everyone pretends that climate change is the fault of industry for making the cars we demand and for providing the fuel we need to run them and to heat our houses. Jolly convenient to smugly blame other people, or evil capitalists, for giving us what we want and expect.I have heard that the "red wall" of labour support is crumbling in the north of England from the guardian and that certainly seems to be a factor.
But Boris Johnson will sell them out and throw them under the bus. I have no illusions on this one.
The options for world politics is to fight climate change or bring the end of civilisation as we know it. We are not fighting climate change but are electing fantasists who make promises they can't keep. The far left is nearly dead, but capitalism and democracy are well on the way to collective sucicide and everyone will suffer for it. so we will have to wait and see who the future belongs to.
However I would agree entirely that climate change was the dog that did not bark in this election. I was actually quite surprised at that. I think it will rocket up the political agenda over the next 5 years and all parties will have to adapt to it.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
How is it that the 'Labour' party managed to ignore the vast majority of working class people who wanted out of the EU?
Uh? All that vitriol just because he made some unfortunate statements about Hamas? Am I missing something?
I criticize him for failing to suport the People's Vote and choosing instead to keeping a tragically ambiguous stance towards Brexit. But I am not aware of anything that would justify calling him a "terrorist boot licker".