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El Paso Texas today active shooter Walmart - 18 reportedly shot- (news video & print article)

Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
oldbadger said:
Of course. You never ever before knew the gun-killing figures, but you knew the % of suicides. Right.
Click to expand...

It is called looking it up. You didn't bother to look. I did. You are either lazy or incompetent. Not my problem

Here we go..............
Nearly 40,000 People Died From Guns in U.S. Last Year, Highest in 50 Years

There were 39,773 gun deaths in 2017, up by more than 1,000 from the year before.
26250 were suicides.
13523 gun killings = 37 gun killings per day
Click to expand...

Ergo you have conceded your first claim.

UK............
There were 726 homicides (Any method) in the year ending March 2018, 20 more (3% increase) than in the previous year. = 2 per day

----------------

But the UK has only 25% of the US population so the figure must be multiplied by 4 = 8 killings per day by any method.

Gun killings USA average 37 per day
All killings UK average (corrected to USA average) 8 per day

Now you know the figures. You're never going to need to ask anyone again.
Click to expand...

Now go look at Canada. Lower murder rate but I own guns.


Crime Prevention does cover home intrusion prevention, and it also covers everyday living.
I met a real coward (not) at Saturday's boot-fair (yesterday). Gosh, what a woose (not) ! I watched him buy a lookalike Cartier Men's watch from a stall for £10. It was a very good lookalike. He told me that he collects both real and good lookalike Cartiers, and if he goes to London he always wears a lookalike. I laughed and told him that I agreed that he could throw down or hand over such a watch to save from injury or death.
You'd probably expect him to buy a handgun and be prepared to stand his ground (Hero - not) but I suspect that he's got a much much higher Intelligence quotient than that. :)
And I'll bet that his home security is beyond your knowledge. Way beyond!
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Your solution is still flawed as not everyone can run away. You are babbling as you can not counter my point.
 
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oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Shad said:
It is called looking it up. You didn't bother to look. I did. You are either lazy or incompetent. Not my problem



Ergo you have conceded your first claim.



Now go look at Canada. Lower murder rate but I own guns.





Your solution is still flawed as not everyone can run away. You are babbling as you can not counter my point.
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You have a point?
 
oldbadger

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Shad said:
Yes. You have no point and you are babbling as you can not counter what I said.
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You have no point.
About 35 people die every day in the USA from gun accidents, gun manslaughter or gun murders. That's a point.

There could be compulsory training, courses, tests, Criminal checks, psycho-evals, home security reqs, home safes, all risks insurance and licences. And semi-auto guns could be restricted to about 3 rounds.

You just don't get simple points, preferring to chuck muck at sensible suggestions. But that's just you.

Sadly I don't think that suicides can reduce very much from gun controls, but gun crime might reduce eventually.

That's a point. Now see if you can answer the points instead of chucking your usual junk comments.
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
That is good news. Compare their murder rate to ours. Yes, if you get rid of guns other killings such as knife killings will go up slightly. The important number is not that the knife murder rate is higher there. The important numbers are the total deaths by murder regardless of weapon used.

EDIT: In the U.S. the rate is 5.30 per 100,000 people versus 1.20 in the U.K. That is a rate over 4 times higher here. I think that your complaint is totally invalid

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia
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And what was the rate of intentional homicide in the U.K. prior to gun control laws and following gun control laws? Were there any previous trends which account for the decline, if there was a decline?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Curious George said:
And what was the rate of intentional homicide in the U.K. prior to gun control laws and following gun control laws? Were there any previous trends which account for the decline, if there was a decline?
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I do believe that gun control laws in the UK are so old that that question cannot be answered. But either in this thread or the one @Kangaroo Feathers posted a graph showing the decline in their countries murder rate.
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
I do believe that gun control laws in the UK are so old that that question cannot be answered. But either in this thread or the one @Kangaroo Feathers posted a graph showing the decline in their countries murder rate.
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I will save you the trouble then. There is a slight correlation between gun laws and intentional homicide. When looking at the previous trends however this can account for any decline in homicide.

In short there is no hard data that suggests that changing gun laws will substantially lower the homicide rate.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Curious George said:
I will save you the trouble then. There is a slight correlation between gun laws and intentional homicide. When looking at the previous trends however this can account for any decline in homicide.

In short there is no hard data that suggests that changing gun laws will substantially lower the homicide rate.
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Then you would be arguing with reality since there is "hard data" that disagrees with you. Not only did the murder rate fall, but so did the suicide rate. Also the suicide rate fell faster in areas with a faster but back program than areas with a slower one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rol-work-in-australia/?utm_term=.8dbc2f3dc3e7
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Then you would be arguing with reality since there is "hard data" that disagrees with you. Not only did the murder rate fall, but so did the suicide rate. Also the suicide rate fell faster in areas with a faster but back program than areas with a slower one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rol-work-in-australia/?utm_term=.8dbc2f3dc3e7
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Are you suggesting that this fall was greater than observed in between years without the gun laws?

I have exhausted my post articles for the month.

To be clear i did not suggest there will be no statistically significant change. I am simply pointing out that no country has observed a substantial change in there murder rates as a result of enacting gun laws. The correlation is there but can easily be explained away by other factors involved.

So do not come with the "murder rate in the U.S. is so bad in comparison."

None of these countries had murder rates like the U.S. before or after gun laws. How it can be so clear that guns are not the root of the problem but people still assert that we need to control guns to fix the problem is baffling.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Curious George said:
Are you suggesting that this fall was greater than observed in between years without the gun laws?

I have exhausted my post articles for the month.

To be clear i did not suggest there will be no statistically significant change. I am simply pointing out that no country has observed a substantial change in there murder rates as a result of enacting gun laws. The correlation is there but can easily be explained away by other factors involved.

So do not come with the "murder rate in the U.S. is so bad in comparison."

None of these countries had murder rates like the U.S. before or after gun laws. How it can be so clear that guns are not the root of the problem but people still assert that we need to control guns to fix the problem is baffling.
Click to expand...

Gun control laws will not be the only fix, but it will definitely cure some of the evils. It is pretty hard to pull off a drive by knifing. And mass killing takes much more planning and much more competence to accomplish if one cannot get a thirty round AK-47.
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Gun control laws will not be the only fix, but it will definitely cure some of the evils. It is pretty hard to pull off a drive by knifing. And mass killing takes much more planning and much more competence to accomplish if one cannot get a thirty round AK-47.
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Yes i do believe drive bys will decrease. Plenty of people can plan and accomplish mass killings still, but over all these are a very small amount of the murders.

In the mean time, you have destroyed the ability to access good efficient tools of self defense.

So Jane never gets shot in the drive-by and julie doesn't get killed in the movie theater, but jenny does get killed from an what would have been preventable if she had access to her gun that she was no longer able to keep.

Meanwhile, one can still make guns if they have a little know how or even if they don't one can 3d print them. I know you have said you don't want a complete ban, but without that you will still have drive bys, so what exactly are you discussing?

Guns are not evil. So, I am not sure how gun laws will fix "evils." We can address the homicide rate. Let us better schools, better access to mental health, reduce poverty, support families, reduce domestic violence, address drug problems, and focus on changing our violent culture and that will go much further in changing the homicide rates. The best part is, we won't have to infringe on any rights (excepting individuals who commit crime and even then with due process) pursuing those ends.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Subduction Zone said:
Gun control laws will not be the only fix, but it will definitely cure some of the evils. It is pretty hard to pull off a drive by knifing. And mass killing takes much more planning and much more competence to accomplish if one cannot get a thirty round AK-47.
Click to expand...
Don't think a determined psychopathic criminal cant get access to a firearm because a law forbids it? Dream on.
 
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