SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
You should feed that parrot something healthier. It's losing its mind.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
El Paso Texas today active shooter Walmart - 18 reportedly shot- (news video & print article)
- Thread starter SugarOcean
- Start date
Of course most of the U.S. gun related deaths were suicides. Good job shifting Australian suicides from firearms to other means.
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
The Declaration of Independence: Full text
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world....
The Declaration of Independence Part of American Law
Professor John Eidsmoe writes: "The role of the Declaration of Independence in American law is often misconstrued. Some believe the Declaration is simply a statement of ideas that has no legal force whatsoever today. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Declaration has been repeatedly cited by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of the fundamental law of the United States of America. "The United States Code Annotated includes the Declaration of Independence under the heading 'The Organic Laws of the United States of America' along with the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Northwest Ordinance. Enabling acts frequently require states to adhere to the principles of the Declaration; in the Enabling Act of June 16, 1906, Congress authorized Oklahoma Territory to take steps to become a state. Section 3 provides that the Oklahoma Constitution 'shall not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration....
This is why the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution reiterates the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The language is such that it states the rights that precede the 2nd amendment shall not be abridged. The 2nd amendment guarantees the right. It does not confer the right.
Second Amendment
People who do not live in America are hard pressed to understand.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world....
The Declaration of Independence Part of American Law
Professor John Eidsmoe writes: "The role of the Declaration of Independence in American law is often misconstrued. Some believe the Declaration is simply a statement of ideas that has no legal force whatsoever today. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Declaration has been repeatedly cited by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of the fundamental law of the United States of America. "The United States Code Annotated includes the Declaration of Independence under the heading 'The Organic Laws of the United States of America' along with the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Northwest Ordinance. Enabling acts frequently require states to adhere to the principles of the Declaration; in the Enabling Act of June 16, 1906, Congress authorized Oklahoma Territory to take steps to become a state. Section 3 provides that the Oklahoma Constitution 'shall not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration....
This is why the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution reiterates the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The language is such that it states the rights that precede the 2nd amendment shall not be abridged. The 2nd amendment guarantees the right. It does not confer the right.
Second Amendment
People who do not live in America are hard pressed to understand.
Not a news source. The police have not confirmed that the purported manifesto was even written by the shooter.
Unless SCOTUS changes their interpretation of the Constitution.
Do you remember Roe v Wade? It was the 1973 SCOTUS interpretation of the Constitution. Do you think that makes abortion OK?
Personally, I don't. I am more pro-life than the vast majority of conservative Christians that I know. But the fact remains, RvW is the current ruling by SCOTUS.
Tom
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
This OP is not about abortion.
Yet your list shows that Switzerland, which has high gun ownership like the U.S., has a homicide rate of 0.5. How come the U.K’s homicide rate is over twice as high as Switzerland’s?
I am talking about your assertion that, since the SCOTUS ruled on an interpretation of the Constitution, it's now right.
Personally, I don't have that much faith in human authority. I oppose SCOTUS rulings on many subjects, including RvW.
You seem to think that the same court that ruled in favor of elective abortions, and now rules in favor of gun ownership, must be right(moral) because they are the highest court in the USA.
Is that what you mean to say? If not, then why not?
Tom
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
You want to adopt the gun control and legislation Switzerland has? That would be an excellent step. I'm guessing you aren't interested in the facts beyond "Switzerland has high gun ownership", though.
The truth is there is no correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates.
The Correlation Between Guns and Homicide Rate | RealClearScience
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Cool. Stop pointing at Switzerland as an argument against gun reform because of its high gun ownership, then.
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
OK, but it remains their decision is the law.
You seem to think SCOTUS makes law. They do not. The courts, even SCOTUS, interprets law.
I pointed it out as proof that there is no correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates. You are the one putting forth the notion that the U.S. has more shootings because it has has high gun ownership. That is false. You have also, on numerous threads, touted Australia’s homicide rate vis-a-vis the U.S.’ Asserting that the reason is Australia’s gun control laws are the difference. The truth is it is not. There are many differences between the Australian and U.S. cases. There are many other factors with much higher correlation to explain the difference than their gun laws. Also there is no evidence that Australian patterned gun control laws would work in the U.S. as they have in Australia.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Never said that, but thanks for playing
By all means, construct an ad hoc argument to explain why laws and controls that work in the rest of the developed world wouldn't work in the US.
Don't get ****ty at me for pointing out that your own link refutes your previous claims.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No.
of 40,000 gun killings in 2017, about 14,000 were gun killings.
That's about 38 gun killings (accident, manslaughter, murder) each day!
In the UK we have an average of 2 per day by ANY REASON.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'd prefer he had neither.
You're not actually addressing my points, so you're right, I'm not up to discussing it with you. See ya.
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
Now you resort to false statements to avoid the truth. I've addressed all your points. You're simply radically anti-gun and no reason ever gets through to that mentality.
A people who are patrolled by military and police that are the only ones with guns are captives of their government.
In England because their street cops are unarmed the bobbies have to call in a special branch allowed to be armed so as to take down an armed suspect. Precious moments that can cost lives while armed criminals do great harm in the meantime. Lee Rigby is the tragic example of GB's disarmament program.
If you're , God forbid, ever at the mercy of an armed assailant I wager you'll pray the armed protectors get to you before the evil that has you in their custody does their worst. Because you're unarmed and at their mercy.
Anti-gun people are hypocrites. They're all for disarming citizens but they're all praying armed police get to them to save their lives before the criminal that isn't impacted by anti-gun laws takes their life.
You're intellectually dishonest and yes, I'm not up to discussing this with that.
Have a good life.
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
I'd much prefer someone with a CC permit were just a bit away from that door they entered so seeing the AR-15 they can take the psycho out before he can raise his gun.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Australia doesn't have that many gun related suicides. Sorry to burst your bubble, but TOTAL annual gun related deaths here, including by accident and suicide, is around 250.
We do have a fairly high suicide rate, but firearms aren't that much of a contributing factor.
