Is Jesus an angel?

[Kenny]

I think the problem is that the NT was written by men. Most of the OT was written/dictated by God and the rest was God inspired. Men are fallible and the NT is full of contradictions. I have read the NT three times. It is the doctrine of Satan. Job 31:35. "Oh that one would hear me! behold, my desire is, that the Almighty would answer me, and that mine adversary had written a book". Satan means "adversary".

Great statements with no substance... you will have to do better than that.

 

[susanblange]

You

You have read it three times. I have read it at least 75 times, maybe more.

The NT has no contradictions, The Gospels were written from different perspectives.

The Apostles were more divinely inspired than the prophets. They actually heard God teaching directly.

Your verse says Job DESIRED that his adversary had written a book.

I have only read the NT three times because I don't believe it. I have read the OT a hundred times and I've read parts of it a thousand times. The scriptures are fluid in my mind and I only read the KJV. The NT was written hundreds of years after Jesus died. I know all I need to know about it. I have a major problem with a religion that forgives without repentance and atonement.

 

[steveb1]

Along with Richard Carrier, Charles A. Gieschen and others, I would affirm that Jesus was conceived of as an angelic being, even though "angel" was not a typical form of address for him.

In all four canonical Gospels Jesus identifies himself with the pre-existent Son of Man who dwells in the clouds and at the End will come on those clouds "with Power" in great glory.
Paul's christology treats Jesus as a pre-existent celestial "Son" who was not God, but was sufficiently primordial to have taken an active, assisting hand in God's creation of the world.
John borrowed his Logos in the Prologue from the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria, who claimed that the Logos is "a second god" who orders the universe.
Later Christian writers such as Justin Martyr also employ the language of angelomorphology in their descriptions of Jesus.

One key to this is that Jesus was said to have been "made" higher than the angels through his sacrificial redemptive work. This does not necessarily mean that Jesus was not an angel, but understood in context, probably means that Jesus's Passion, death and resurrection made him higher than all the other angels. Scripture explains Jesus's elevation above the angels in words to the effect: "What [other] angel did all the things that Jesus did?" Of course, no other angel did what Jesus did, which makes Jesus king of the angels, but does not disqualify him from acting as, and being, the functional equivalent of a "Greatest Archangel".

 

[shmogie]

My religion is an eclectic mix of the Truth that is found in all religions. I actually practice my own flavor of Judaism and I call it "Biblical Judaism". I am a Fundamentalist and I believe the OT is the word of God.

¨An eclectic mix. my own flavor of Judaism" Whew

 

[shmogie]

I have only read the NT three times because I don't believe it. I have read the OT a hundred times and I've read parts of it a thousand times. The scriptures are fluid in my mind and I only read the KJV. The NT was written hundreds of years after Jesus died. I know all I need to know about it. I have a major problem with a religion that forgives without repentance and atonement.

WRONG. Christ used the term repent many, many times. Christianity requires atonement for sins.

The NT was in circulation by 150 AD

 

[PruePhillip]

The book of Enoch is older than many other books in the Bible.
For example the Revelation (95 AD.) and the book Daniel (167 BC.) are much younger. Thus the Book of Enoch is the oldest known apocalyptic script.

Daniel is dated on the basis that it could not have known the events of which it speaks
(ie the coming of the Greeks)
Using this logic, the book of Daniel was probably written in the early centuries after
Jesus because Daniel wrote of Jesus, the Romans and the destruction of the temple.

 

[PruePhillip]

WRONG. Christ used the term repent many, many times. Christianity requires atonement for sins.

The NT was in circulation by 150 AD

In "circulation by 150 AD"
Well yes, and it was in circulation in 350 AD
and 2019 AD too.
If you read Luke you see he was aware of the Gospels as he
likely quoted them. He wrote Luke and Acts, and he finished
writing after he went to Rome with Paul, about 65 AD.
I had no doubt there was some urgency in the disciples to
put pen to paper (or their equivalent) as soon as they could.
I suggest John's Gospel was written down as it happened.

 

[74x12]

I have a major problem with a religion that forgives without repentance and atonement.

You must repent according to the new Testament and Jesus' blood is the ultimate atonement. Not sure what your problem with the NT is if that is what you claim.

 

[Rise]

Jehovah's Witnesses and Adventists claim that Michael (the angel) is Jesus. However, in the Bible Jesus is neither described as an angel nor as Michael. Not once.
They also claim that Michael is the only Archangel, which is not said in the Bible.
What is an Archangel?
There are altogether seven archangels, each of these seven angels has his own troop and the archangel is the leader of his troop. Those seven troops each have a specific task. The book of Enoch(20:1-8) gives us information about this:
And these are the names of the holy angels who watch. Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. Saraqael, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.

The archangels are also mentioned in the book of Tobit (12:15):
I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand by and enter before the glory of the Lord.

Revelation 21:9 mentions the seven angels too:
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.

Hebrews 1 and 2 conclusively disproves the idea that Jesus was an angel. Paul (history and tradition says it was Paul who wrote it) spends the whole first chapter outlining why Jesus could not be merely an angel, and then transitions in chapter 2 to outlining why he was also human, and then in chapter 3 talks about how he was not merely a powerful prophet who was close to God like Moses.
He's specifically addressing point blank several things that either were, or would go on to become, Heresies in the early church. These same heresies continue to pop up throughout history from time to time amongst those who either don't believe what the Bible says or aren't informed in all of what it says.

 

[calm]

I thought you thought he was god. Make up your mind.

But no, he isn't an angel.

I have never believed that Jesus is an angel and I have never believed that Jesus is not God. I opened this discussion to help Jehovah's Witnesses and Adventists.

 

[PruePhillip]

I have never believed that Jesus is an angel and I have never believed that Jesus is not God. I opened this discussion to help Jehovah's Witnesses and Adventists.

Jesus is neither angel nor God. Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[sooda]

WRONG. Christ used the term repent many, many times. Christianity requires atonement for sins.

The NT was in circulation by 150 AD

Rare before the printing press.

 

[sooda]

Daniel is dated on the basis that it could not have known the events of which it speaks
(ie the coming of the Greeks)
Using this logic, the book of Daniel was probably written in the early centuries after
Jesus because Daniel wrote of Jesus, the Romans and the destruction of the temple.

There was NO Daniel. It was written by a committee in 167 BC about the Abomination of Desolation and Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

 

[Niblo]

No.

 

[Deeje]

Jehovah's Witnesses and Adventists claim that Michael (the angel) is Jesus. However, in the Bible Jesus is neither described as an angel nor as Michael. Not once.
They also claim that Michael is the only Archangel, which is not said in the Bible.

The Bible itself confirms that Michael is "THE Archangel".....the word "archangel" means "chief" or "principle" and never appears in the plural. There is only one Archangel and it is Michael.
1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 1:9 both speak of "THE Archangel....not "an" archangel.

What is an Archangel?
There are altogether seven archangels, each of these seven angels has his own troop and the archangel is the leader of his troop. Those seven troops each have a specific task. The book of Enoch(20:1-8) gives us information about this:

Enoch is a non-canonical book. It is a collection of extravagant and unhistorical Jewish myths, evidently the product of exegetical elaborations on the brief Genesis reference to Enoch. This alone is sufficient reason to dismiss it.
There are only two angels named in the Bible....Michael and Gabriel....others refused to give their name.

The archangels are also mentioned in the book of Tobit (12:15):
I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand by and enter before the glory of the Lord.

Another non-canonical book. There is a reason why these books are not included in the canon....God did not choose them and they are incompatible with the rest of scripture. Tobit contains absurd passages of magic-working sorcery.

Revelation 21:9 mentions the seven angels too:
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.

"Seven" in the Bible is a number often used to symbolize that which is complete, or perfect, in God’s eyes.
The number four is used to denote 'allness' or 'universalness'. This idea is conveyed in such expressions as “four extremities of the earth” and “four winds of the heavens.” (Isaiah 11:12; Daniel 8:8) At times, the number six represents imperfection. Interestingly, the number given to Satan’s earthly political organization in the book of Revelation is “a man’s number”.....666. (Revelation 13:18)

Jesus' address to the "seven congregations" is to all the complete number of Christians living when Jesus pronounces judgment upon all mankind living. He especially targets the ones who have adopted a fake kind of Christianity and tells them....“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

Won't it be interesting to see who is rejected as those Christ "never" knew?

Only two personages are said to have the angels at their command...Jesus and Michael. Since the Bible does NOT teach that Jesus is God, he could well be Michael in his heavenly role. Jesus has various name according to the role that he is fulfilling. We do not hold this as a doctrine because it is not specifically stated but, it is implied......in much the same way as Christendom implies the trinity.

 

[Deeje]

I have a major problem with a religion that forgives without repentance and atonement.

So does God.....

 

[calm]

The Bible itself confirms that Michael is "THE Archangel".....the word "archangel" means "chief" or "principle" and never appears in the plural. There is only one Archangel and it is Michael.
1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 1:9 both speak of "THE Archangel....not "an" archangel.



Enoch is a non-canonical book. It is a collection of extravagant and unhistorical Jewish myths, evidently the product of exegetical elaborations on the brief Genesis reference to Enoch. This alone is sufficient reason to dismiss it.
There are only two angels named in the Bible....Michael and Gabriel....others refused to give their name.



Another non-canonical book. There is a reason why these books are not included in the canon....God did not choose them and they are incompatible with the rest of scripture. Tobit contains absurd passages of magic-working sorcery.



"Seven" in the Bible is a number often used to symbolize that which is complete, or perfect, in God’s eyes.
The number four is used to denote 'allness' or 'universalness'. This idea is conveyed in such expressions as “four extremities of the earth” and “four winds of the heavens.” (Isaiah 11:12; Daniel 8:8) At times, the number six represents imperfection. Interestingly, the number given to Satan’s earthly political organization in the book of Revelation is “a man’s number”.....666. (Revelation 13:18)

Jesus' address to the "seven congregations" is to all the complete number of Christians living when Jesus pronounces judgment upon all mankind living. He especially targets the ones who have adopted a fake kind of Christianity and tells them....“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

Won't it be interesting to see who is rejected as those Christ "never" knew?

Only two personages are said to have the angels at their command...Jesus and Michael. Since the Bible does NOT teach that Jesus is God, he could well be Michael in his heavenly role. Jesus has various name according to the role that he is fulfilling. We do not hold this as a doctrine because it is not specifically stated but, it is implied......in much the same way as Christendom implies the trinity.

The term "Archangel" appears only twice in the whole Bible and one of them identifies Michael. But as I said, the Bible does not say that there is only one Archangel. "Arch" means "first/highest ranking" and that doesn't contradict at all that there can be several, because as I already explained, each archangel has its own troop. And of each of the Seven Troops, the Archangel is the highest ranking (leader). You have to imagine that the angels of God form a whole "army" and every archangel is a "commandat" so to speak.
And that you don't see the book Enoch as God's word is a pity but to discuss about it doesn't help, because it is a matter of faith.

 

[calm]

The Bible itself confirms that Michael is "THE Archangel".....the word "archangel" means "chief" or "principle" and never appears in the plural. There is only one Archangel and it is Michael.
1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 1:9 both speak of "THE Archangel....not "an" archangel.



Enoch is a non-canonical book. It is a collection of extravagant and unhistorical Jewish myths, evidently the product of exegetical elaborations on the brief Genesis reference to Enoch. This alone is sufficient reason to dismiss it.
There are only two angels named in the Bible....Michael and Gabriel....others refused to give their name.



Another non-canonical book. There is a reason why these books are not included in the canon....God did not choose them and they are incompatible with the rest of scripture. Tobit contains absurd passages of magic-working sorcery.



"Seven" in the Bible is a number often used to symbolize that which is complete, or perfect, in God’s eyes.
The number four is used to denote 'allness' or 'universalness'. This idea is conveyed in such expressions as “four extremities of the earth” and “four winds of the heavens.” (Isaiah 11:12; Daniel 8:8) At times, the number six represents imperfection. Interestingly, the number given to Satan’s earthly political organization in the book of Revelation is “a man’s number”.....666. (Revelation 13:18)

Jesus' address to the "seven congregations" is to all the complete number of Christians living when Jesus pronounces judgment upon all mankind living. He especially targets the ones who have adopted a fake kind of Christianity and tells them....“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

Won't it be interesting to see who is rejected as those Christ "never" knew?

Only two personages are said to have the angels at their command...Jesus and Michael. Since the Bible does NOT teach that Jesus is God, he could well be Michael in his heavenly role. Jesus has various name according to the role that he is fulfilling. We do not hold this as a doctrine because it is not specifically stated but, it is implied......in much the same way as Christendom implies the trinity.

Do you believe that in the bible all information is written?

 

[sooda]

In "circulation by 150 AD"
Well yes, and it was in circulation in 350 AD
and 2019 AD too.
If you read Luke you see he was aware of the Gospels as he
likely quoted them. He wrote Luke and Acts, and he finished
writing after he went to Rome with Paul, about 65 AD.
I had no doubt there was some urgency in the disciples to
put pen to paper (or their equivalent) as soon as they could.
I suggest John's Gospel was written down as it happened.

There is no evidence for that. Luke never met Jesus.

 

[sooda]

The term "Archangel" appears only twice in the whole Bible and one of them identifies Michael. But as I said, the Bible does not say that there is only one Archangel. "Erz" means "first/highest ranking" and that doesn't contradict at all that there can be several, because as I already explained, each archangel has its own troop. And of each of the Seven Troops, the Archangel is the highest ranking (leader). You have to imagine that the angels of God form a whole "army" and every archangel is a "commandat" so to speak.
And that you don't see the book Enoch as God's word is a pity but to discuss about it doesn't help, because it is a matter of faith.

Look at when Enoch was written.