10 outcomes on war with Iran

[Tyler Durne]

There is no time limit on seeking peace, since conflicts continually arise.
I expect it to be an ongoing process until we replace ourselves with peacebots.

ongoing process? so how many sacrificed Jewish lives is enough?

Beliefs systems are flexible, & change with culture. Continually attack & threaten a people, & the culture will hate.
Recognize this cycle, & seek opportunity for change. To be resigned to intransigence of one's enemies leaves you 2 choices:
1) Destroy them all.
2) Continual war.
#1 is impossible, so if attempted then it leads to #2.

100% agree but then again, why threaten us? why do we have to sacrifice and not them? common sense tells me don't feed the aggressor it is a sign of weakness it only motivates the aggressor to continue the conflict.

Ask them to become the peacemakers, if the current leaders are unable.

Ask who? those who hate us for being Jewish? people in this forum cannot over come their ego and admit that their tradition is based on ours, a historical fact, its like talking to a wall.

Israel, US, Iraq & Saudi Arabia all either threaten &/or attack Iran. That Jews & Xians of western powers together frame these
conflicts in a religious context would explain why Iran would also focus upon religious groups. Muslims have clearly been treated
by western powers as a mere dirty inconvenience over the last century. To see this from Iran's perspective would be illuminating.

Excuse me? this comment sounds nothing other then propaganda, Jews and xiams frame issues together? Judaism does not teach hate and our goal is not to convert the world to Judaism or die, get your facts straight. We do not fly planes in to sky scrapers and do not educate our kids to blow them selfs up in German restaurants.
We also do not believe that to hasten the return of the great mahdi we should create an apocalypse. Israel never colonized anybody or invaded another country but Islam did.


Your concerns are real & difficult, so I don't dismiss them. But neither do I dismiss the rights to peace
of your foes. We each have the opportunity to let our humanity triumph over anger & revenge.

I am in no need for your sympathy and do not feel any hate towards arabs or muslims but I am not a naive liberal, I will not spread my arms open to the one who is pointing a gun on me.

Would you grant that right to destroy those who threaten you to the Palestinians or Iranians? America has
already directly attacked Iran by coup & by proxy (Iran). We now threaten them directly & by proxy (Israel).

There is no reason to destroy nations or peoples but if they threaten you, a good enough blow should be given so the idea of killing me stops to exist.

It would be a mistake to think that one's foe is a fool. If anything, I find Iran's conduct of late to be smarter than Israel's,
but neither should be underestimated. As for those who call each other such vile names, I cannot speak for them.

Guess what, for Israel it is a loose loose situation because Israel is being called nazi while arabs and persian stone, kill and abuse their own people. Iran collaborated with the Germans, it was because of Germans that they changed their name from Persia to Iran but yet they are innocent and Jews are nazis. Any Nation that is being threatened and being called names that it doesn't deserve will become aggressive and rightfully so.
Again, I cannot speak for others, but I am a taxpayer in a country which spends money & life to wage continual & fruitless
war on the other side of the world. I'm tired of paying to fuel war with goals of political & religious hegemony. It ain't right.
So as a minor player in this travesty, I have a right, nay the obligation to comment & try to effect change.

Is it Jews fault that America spends so much money on conflicts on the other side of world? America provides weapons and money to both sides of the conflict and it some how Jews fault?

My general sense of your responses is that you are purposely not willing to see the other side.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you suggesting that Israel should let them build a few bombs and drop them, loosing a quarter million people then reply evaporating a few million Iranians very possibly triggering an armaggedon, rather than hit their reactors now killing a few thousand and whatever they would loose as Iran stepped up their ineffective proxy wars.

Actually, I'm advocating the opposite of that scenario.

I believe that in that area of the world that Israel is by far the most honorable, U.S. freindly, democratic, and benevolent nation by far. Thats means in a conflict which wouldn't even exist except for the agression of their neiboors I favor whatever results in their best interest. It is Iran and it's idealogic commitments that has put Israel in this position not the other way around.

I disagree.

On a graph plotting Jewish concessions vs. Arabic violence. After every instance of Israel giving land or concessions there is a spike of Arabic violence. Now the world is telling them to give more of the 1/6 of 1% only to get attacked for the effort.

Some seem determined to see & not see all things as justifying preemptive war.
I've no convincing arguments against this agenda.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is it Jews fault that America spends so much money on conflicts on the other side of world? America provides weapons and money to both sides of the conflict and it some how Jews fault?
My general sense of your responses is that you are purposely not willing to see the other side.

A loaded question, eh? I've repeatedly said that Xians & Jews act in concert, having a shared agenda. Atheists, Muslims,
Hindus, pantheists, etc, don't have a large a role in gov't here (despite some fundie claims that we persecute them).

 

[1robin]

Actually, I'm advocating the opposite of that scenario.

What are you advocating? (Keep Chamberlain and Churchill from 1937 in mind)

I disagree.

ACCOPLISHMENT OF THIS TINY NATION​

 Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per person in the world.
 Israel produces more published scientific papers per person than any other nation.
 They have the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita of any other nation.
 They have the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.
 They have the highest number of PhD’s per capita in the world.
 They have the highest number of physicians per person of any nation.
 Israel has the highest percentage of its workforce involved in technical areas than any other nation.
 Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation in the world per capita.
 It is the only country in the Middle East where Christian, Muslims and Jews are free to vote.
 It is the only country in the Middle East where women enjoy full political rights.
 They have the largest number of startup companies per capita in the world.
 They have the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies except for the US and Canada.
 Israel has the highest concentration of high tech companies outside Silicon Valley in the world.
 The cell phone was invented in Israel.
 Voice mail began there.
 IBM’s first PC had an Israeli chip.
 They developed the first anti-virus software.
 Most of Windows NT and XP were developed in Israel.
 The Pentium 4 and Centrino processors were entirely designed and produced in Israel as well as Pentium MMX Chip technology..
 Israel has the highest number of PCs per person in the world.
 They were the first Middle Eastern country to launch a satellite.
 They have more museums, more orchestras, and read more books per person than any other nation on earth.
 The most unrestricted free Arabic press is in Israel.
 Israel has the world’s finest airline security system.
 Their dairy cows produce more milk per cow by far than any other countries. (I know this isn’t that important but I listed it because it reminds me of that scripture that talks about how Israel will be a agricultural star in the end times)
 They have more in-vitro fertilizations per capita than any other nation. And it’s free.
 Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all its immediate neighbors combined.
 Israel has the highest average living standard of any country in the Middle East. The average income level is more than twice its neighbors in the region even though their neighbors are swimming in oil and they are not.
 Israel was the first country in the world to reject conflict diamonds.
 They developed the first camera small enough to be ingested for medical procedures.
 I’m getting bored but there is much more.
They did all this after having to start over again from scratch in 1948 all the while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under the strain of having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other country on earth. It is their enemy who say that Israel does not have a right to exist not the other way around. Imagine if we said no Arabian nation has the right to exist and proceeded to rally all the western nations to obliterate them.
It is fine to disagree but to do so against the evidence is pointless. A few of these points have been challenged in the past. I went and researched them and found the list above reliable, however it takes forever and I won't do it again. What country involved in these conflicts would you say has acted more benevolently than Israel.

some seem determined to see & not see all things as justifying preemptive war. I've no convincing arguments against this agenda.

I am not sure what you meant here. My point was to illustrate the injustices of Israel’s enemies compared to Israel’s repeated concession attempts to show who is the more honorable group.

Israel's enemies (the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt just declared Israel the no 1 enemy, Hamas's charter demands the elimination of Israel, etc.....) have demonstrated on numerous occasions their willingness to attack without sufficient provocation with the intent of wiping out Israel. Why should Israel risk hundreds of thousands dead when a few strategically placed bombs could remove the threat? Many, many times people reluctant to act have brought on far greater distruction than they were trying to avoid.

 

[Revoltingest]

What are you advocating?

I advocate what I've learned over the years in negotiating agreements between angry parties:
1) Consider emotions. They corrupt communication, so one must see thru rhetoric to discern real & more durable motives & goals.
2) Validate the other sides emotions. When I understand & respect them (or pretend to), they become more open to alternatives.
3) Own up to one's own real failings. Compensation should be given when warranted.
4) Objectively analyze ramifications of all considered solutions. More scenarios are possible than what is wanted & expected.
5) Be aware of ego.
6) Remove ego.
7) If you believe in any religious dogma.....stop that! Let not religion cause war.

ACCOPLISHMENT OF THIS TINY NATION​

 Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per person in the world.
 Israel produces more published scientific papers per person than any other nation.
 They have the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita of any other nation.
 They have the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.
 They have the highest number of PhD’s per capita in the world.
 They have the highest number of physicians per person of any nation.
 Israel has the highest percentage of its workforce involved in technical areas than any other nation.
 Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation in the world per capita.
 It is the only country in the Middle East where Christian, Muslims and Jews are free to vote.
 It is the only country in the Middle East where women enjoy full political rights.
 They have the largest number of startup companies per capita in the world.
 They have the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies except for the US and Canada.
 Israel has the highest concentration of high tech companies outside Silicon Valley in the world.
 The cell phone was invented in Israel.
 Voice mail began there.
 IBM’s first PC had an Israeli chip.
 They developed the first anti-virus software.
 Most of Windows NT and XP were developed in Israel.
 The Pentium 4 and Centrino processors were entirely designed and produced in Israel as well as Pentium MMX Chip technology..
 Israel has the highest number of PCs per person in the world.
 They were the first Middle Eastern country to launch a satellite.
 They have more museums, more orchestras, and read more books per person than any other nation on earth.
 The most unrestricted free Arabic press is in Israel.
 Israel has the world’s finest airline security system.
 Their dairy cows produce more milk per cow by far than any other countries. (I know this isn’t that important but I listed it because it reminds me of that scripture that talks about how Israel will be a agricultural star in the end times)
 They have more in-vitro fertilizations per capita than any other nation. And it’s free.
 Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all its immediate neighbors combined.
 Israel has the highest average living standard of any country in the Middle East. The average income level is more than twice its neighbors in the region even though their neighbors are swimming in oil and they are not.
 Israel was the first country in the world to reject conflict diamonds.
 They developed the first camera small enough to be ingested for medical procedures.
 I’m getting bored but there is much more.
They did all this after having to start over again from scratch in 1948 all the while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under the strain of having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other country on earth. It is their enemy who say that Israel does not have a right to exist not the other way around. Imagine if we said no Arabian nation has the right to exist and proceeded to rally all the western nations to obliterate them.
It is fine to disagree but to do so against the evidence is pointless.

I don't consider the above to be "evidence", unless you're arguing for Israeli cultural & technical superiority.
But even that is no justification for dismissing the humanity of one's perceived enemies. I detect a notion
of "We are better & more entitled than you." This will lead nowhere positive.

A few of these points have been challenged in the past. I went and researched them and found the list above reliable, however it takes forever and I won't do it again.

It wasn't necessary in the first place.

What country involved in these conflicts would you say has acted more benevolently than Israel.

Revoltingistan

I am not sure what you meant here. My point was to illustrate the injustices of Israel’s enemies compared to Israel’s repeated concession attempts to show who is the more honorable group.

To imagine that one has greater honor as justification for thuggery is to lose that honor.

Israel's enemies (the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt just declared Israel the no 1 enemy, Hamas's charter demands the elimination of Israel, etc.....) have demonstrated on numerous occasions their willingness to attack without sufficient provocation with the intent of wiping out Israel. Why should Israel risk hundreds of thousands dead when a few strategically placed bombs could remove the threat? Many, many times people reluctant to act have brought on far greater distruction than they were trying to avoid.

Your reasons strike me as factors which support how you feel, rather than a cogent argument for preemptive war.
When resigned to such a combative attitude, you're doomed to eternal war. I say that is unacceptable.

 

[1robin]

I advocate what I've learned over the years in negotiating agreements between angry parties:
1) Consider emotions. They corrupt communication, so one must see thru rhetoric to discern real & more durable motives & goals.
2) Validate the other sides emotions. When I understand & respect them (or pretend to), they become more open to alternatives.
3) Own up to one's own real failings. Compensation should be given when warranted.
4) Objectively analyze ramifications of all considered solutions. More scenarios are possible than what is wanted & expected.
5) Be aware of ego.
6) Remove ego.
7) If you believe in any religious dogma.....stop that! Let not religion cause war.

Those points seem more at home in a high school than in the real world with countries that are committed to destroy you. Would Hitler have backed down if we pointed out that he was acting from his ego? This sounds like liberal psychobabble that doesn't ever work in the real world. The only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing (or engage in naive intellectualism). Do you think that you are qualified to instruct people to ignore their or any religion? The desire to rid nations of religion has resulted in vastly more destruction than even false religion has caused. None of this was intended as insulting by the way.

I don't consider the above to be "evidence", unless you're arguing for Israeli cultural & technical superiority. But even that is no justification for dismissing the humanity of one's perceived enemies. I detect a notion of "We are better & more entitled than you." This will lead nowhere positive.

You mean the fact that they are the most open, , democratic, free, and moral nation in the area doesn't deserve the U.S's support, but the most oppressive, backwards, and militant nation deserves the right to build nuclear missiles to wipe out Israel and threaten everyone else. Perhaps these facts will make it clearer:
For the many readers who have requested a brief synopsis of the moral arguments in the Arab-Israeli conflict, I offer the following list of numerical data.
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Old Testament: over 700
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran: 0
Number of Arab leaders who visited Jerusalem when it was under Arab rule (1948 to 1967): 1
Number of Arab refugees who fled the land that became Israel: approximately 600,000
Number of Jewish refugees who fled Arab countries: approximately 600,000
Number of U.N. agencies that deal only with Palestinian refugees: 1
Number of U.N. agencies that deal with all the other refugees in the world: 1
Number of Jewish states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 3
Number of Arab or Muslim states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 0
Number of terrorist attacks by Israelis or Jews since 1967: 1
Number of terrorist attacks by Arabs or Muslims since 1967: thousands
Percentage of Jews who have praised the Jewish terrorist: approximately .1
Percentage of Palestinians who have praised Islamic terrorists: approximately 90
Number of Jewish countries: 1
Number of Jewish democracies: 1
Number of Arab countries: 19
Number of Arab democracies: 0
Number of Arab women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": thousands
Number of Jewish women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": 0
Number of Christian or Jewish prayer services allowed in Saudi Arabia: 0
Number of Muslim prayer services allowed in Israel: unlimited
Number of Arabs Israel allows to live in Arab settlements in Israel: 1,250,000
Number of Jews Palestinian Authority allows to live in Jewish settlements in Palestinian Authority: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning an Arab country for human-rights violations: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning Israel for human rights violations: 26
Number of U.N. Security Council resolutions on the Middle East between 1948 and 1991: 175
Number of these resolutions against Israel: 97
Number of these resolutions against an Arab state: 4
Number of Arab countries that have been members of the U.N. Security Council: 16
Number of times Israel has been a member of the U.N. Security Council: 0
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning Israel: 322
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning an Arab country: 0
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Arab countries voted with the United States in 2002: 16.6
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Israel voted with the United States in 2002: 92.6
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who defend Zionism and Israel: approximately 1.
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who believe in diversity on college campuses: 100
Percentage of people who argue that the Jewish state has no right to exist who also believe some other country has no right to exist: 0
Percentage of people who argue that of all the countries in the world, only the Jewish state has no right to exist and yet deny they are anti-Jewish: approximately 100
Number of Muslims in the world: more than 1 billion
Number of Muslim demonstrations against Islamic terror: approximately 2
I have not verified all of these but as I have seen them in many places and they are from a reliable source, I believe they are reliable.

Revoltingistan

I am assuming this is a joke. Not Bad. However I also notice that this was not an answer.

To imagine that one has greater honor as justification for thuggery is to lose that honor.
Your reasons strike me as factors which support how you feel, rather than a cogent argument for preemptive war.
When resigned to such a combative attitude, you're doomed to eternal war. I say that is unacceptable.

I wasn't justifying any thuggary (whatever that is), I was justifying Israel’s right to stop an imminent, highly lethal threat.
The argument for Israel being justified to commit to a preemptive strike against a nation sworn to destroy them if they developed the capacity to kill millions is so self-evident that it needs no argument.
When resigned to a completely passive response to aggression you are destined for death or servitude.

A famous Arab is quoted as saying “If the Moslems laid down there arms today there would be peace tomorrow”. “If the Israelis laid down their weapons today there would be no Israel tomorrow” That's as accurate and clear as it gets.

 

[Revoltingest]

Those points seem more at home in a high school than in the real world....

No wonder then, that the real world is such a mess.

....with countries that are committed to destroy you. Would Hitler have backed down if we pointed out that he was acting from his ego? This sounds like liberal psychobabble that doesn't ever work in the real world.

To see Hitler behind all one's conflicts is a very bad sign.

The only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing......

I'll see that platitude, & raise you....
The other thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to perpetrate evil in the name of "good".

Do you think that you are qualified to instruct people to ignore their or any religion?

I am as qualified as anyone else here....which is to say I'm unqualified.

The desire to rid nations of religion has resulted in vastly more destruction than even false religion has caused. None of this was intended as insulting by the way.

Let's not take my negotiating tactic suggestion & turn it into advocating a pogrom.

You mean the fact that they are the most open, , democratic, free, and moral nation......

Geeze Louise.....I see that modesty does not afflict thee.
(Yeah, I'm a jerk....but I just had to say that.)

I am assuming this is a joke. Not Bad. However I also notice that this was not an answer.

It seemed the most appropriate answer.

I wasn't justifying any thuggary (whatever that is), I was justifying Israel’s right to stop an imminent, highly lethal threat.
The argument for Israel being justified to commit to a preemptive strike against a nation sworn to destroy them if they developed the capacity to kill millions is so self-evident that it needs no argument.
When resigned to a completely passive response to aggression you are destined for death or servitude.
A famous Arab is quoted as saying “If the Moslems laid down there arms today there would be peace tomorrow”. “If the Israelis laid down their weapons today there would be no Israel tomorrow” That's as accurate and clear as it gets.

You have many reasons for wanting to keep your many enemies weak.
You list evidence that Israelis are better than others.
You list oppression that Jews have suffered.
You seem to find Muslim countries feckless & violent.
But you've not made a comprehensive argument that preemptive war makes sense.

We should agree to disagree.

 

[1robin]

No wonder then, that the real world is such a mess.

Pretending the crackheads down the street will leave your kids alone if you are nice or try to reason with them is a recipe for disaster. Chamberlin in 1937 thought like you think and 50 million people died because he didn't let Churchill take care of Hitler then.

To see Hitler behind all one's conflicts is a very bad sign.

What? I use Hitler because every one is familiar with him and everyone universally condems him so it is common ground. I also mentioned Stalin and Lennon and could mention Polpot, Muhammad, and Kim Jong Ill, etc....... but they are less well known.

I'll see that platitude, & raise you....
The other thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to perpetrate evil in the name of "good".

This would have been appropriate if the implication was valid. However it was funny so I won't pick on it too much.

I am as qualified as anyone else here....which is to say I'm unqualified.

Exactly, the religous beleifs of the two sides are so fundamental and important to these people to make any recommmendation that they be dispensed with is a waste of time.

Let's not take my negotiating tactic suggestion & turn it into advocating a pogrom.

This was so confusing I don't know whether to agree or disagree.

Geeze Louise.....I see that modesty does not afflict thee.
(Yeah, I'm a jerk....but I just had to say that.).

I appreciate the candor but I am not a Jew so anything good that I say about them would not be immodest.

You have many reasons for wanting to keep your many enemies weak.
You list evidence that Israelis are better than others.
You list oppression that Jews have suffered.
You seem to find Muslim countries feckless & violent.
But you've not made a comprehensive argument that preemptive war makes sense.

What more is needed by Israel to justify a premptive strike resulting in a relative few casualties compared with allowing Iran to attack with nukes and kill millions than the record of the area from 1948 - today. They have been repeatedly attacked without provocation by virtually every nation in the area who are sworn to Israels distruction. Check out a pdf called Israel's major wars (myths and facts) by Eli Hertz or one of dozens more that record a steady record of unjustified war against Israel by all her neibors. Look at the missles from Gaza that the palestinians talked Israel out of. You are obviously an intelligent person what is preventing you from this most obvious point. I can't imagine a more clear case where preemptive action could be more justified.

 

[Revoltingest]

Pretending the crackheads down the street will leave your kids alone if you are nice or try to reason with them is a recipe for disaster. Chamberlin in 1937 thought like you think and 50 million people died because he didn't let Churchill take care of Hitler then.

You'd say the situations are the same. I don't.
Moreover, game strategies with imperfect information are probabilistic.
What worked in one case doesn't determine success in another.
I prefer a more general way of seeing things. And I prefer to er on the side of peaceful solutions.

Exactly, the religous beleifs of the two sides are so fundamental and important to these people to make any recommmendation that they be dispensed with is a waste of time.

I already know I'm wasting my time, since my advice will only be used for discussion purposes.
The parties involved will do what they will do.

This was so confusing I don't know whether to agree or disagree.

Just go ahead & agree with me. It won't hurt anything.

What more is needed by Israel to justify a premptive strike resulting in a relative few casualties compared with allowing Iran to attack with nukes and kill millions than the record of the area from 1948 - today.

I find your imagined scenario of Iran nuking Israel implausible.
They know that Israel & America would retaliate, & that Iran's regime would be changed.

They have been repeatedly attacked without provocation by virtually every nation in the area who are sworn to Israels distruction.

Consider Iran's perspective:
They've had an American coup staged in their country.
They were viciously attacked (with WMDs) by Iraq with American aid.
Israel & America attack Iran covertly continuously.
Israel & America openly announce intentions to develop new Iran-specific weapons & to use them.
This happens because they view Iran as a vulnerable enemy.
Would not a nuclear weapon make sense to have as a deterrent?

I can't imagine a more clear case where preemptive action could be more justified.

I can. But I have a better imagination.

 

[Godobeyer]

ACCOPLISHMENT OF THIS TINY NATION​

 Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per person in the world.
 Israel produces more published scientific papers per person than any other nation.
 They have the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita of any other nation.
 They have the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.
 They have the highest number of PhD’s per capita in the world.
 They have the highest number of physicians per person of any nation.
 Israel has the highest percentage of its workforce involved in technical areas than any other nation.
 Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation in the world per capita.
 It is the only country in the Middle East where Christian, Muslims and Jews are free to vote.
 It is the only country in the Middle East where women enjoy full political rights.
 They have the largest number of startup companies per capita in the world.
 They have the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies except for the US and Canada.
 Israel has the highest concentration of high tech companies outside Silicon Valley in the world.
 The cell phone was invented in Israel.
 Voice mail began there.
 IBM’s first PC had an Israeli chip.
 They developed the first anti-virus software.
 Most of Windows NT and XP were developed in Israel.
 The Pentium 4 and Centrino processors were entirely designed and produced in Israel as well as Pentium MMX Chip technology..
 Israel has the highest number of PCs per person in the world.
 They were the first Middle Eastern country to launch a satellite.
 They have more museums, more orchestras, and read more books per person than any other nation on earth.
 The most unrestricted free Arabic press is in Israel.
 Israel has the world’s finest airline security system.
 Their dairy cows produce more milk per cow by far than any other countries. (I know this isn’t that important but I listed it because it reminds me of that scripture that talks about how Israel will be a agricultural star in the end times)
 They have more in-vitro fertilizations per capita than any other nation. And it’s free.
 Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all its immediate neighbors combined.
 Israel has the highest average living standard of any country in the Middle East. The average income level is more than twice its neighbors in the region even though their neighbors are swimming in oil and they are not.
 Israel was the first country in the world to reject conflict diamonds.
 They developed the first camera small enough to be ingested for medical procedures.
 I’m getting bored but there is much more.

all these are one of two : fake info or exagerate .
because there is no confiance reference for these .

then , how about Dubai ? there is no "largerest" for her ?
or Algeria

 

[1robin]

all these are one of two : fake info or exagerate .
because there is no confiance reference for these .

then , how about Dubai ? there is no "largerest" for her ?
or Algeria

I have no idea what you just wrote? Everytime someone challenges a fact I post I spend hours checking it out and find it is reasonably accurate or perfectly so. So I am not doing it anymore, I don't have time. If you don't like these then please ignore them. I can't understand any more of what you wrote other than some dislike of some of these facts so I don't know how to respond. I changed my mind, if you will pick one I will check it out, but after that Im done.

 

[1robin]

You'd say the situations are the same. I don't.
Moreover, game strategies with imperfect information are probabilistic.
What worked in one case doesn't determine success in another.
I prefer a more general way of seeing things. And I prefer to er on the side of peaceful solutions.

I already know I'm wasting my time, since my advice will only be used for discussion purposes.
The parties involved will do what they will do.

Just go ahead & agree with me. It won't hurt anything.

I find your imagined scenario of Iran nuking Israel implausible.
They know that Israel & America would retaliate, & that Iran's regime would be changed.

Consider Iran's perspective:
They've had an American coup staged in their country.
They were viciously attacked (with WMDs) by Iraq with American aid.
Israel & America attack Iran covertly continuously.
Israel & America openly announce intentions to develop new Iran-specific weapons & to use them.
This happens because they view Iran as a vulnerable enemy.
Would not a nuclear weapon make sense to have as a deterrent?

I can. But I have a better imagination.

1. The two examples have a similar basis in human nature. There is no compromise or rational debate with evil. Iran has admitted it uses political talks for the sole reason to buy time to accomplish it's goals. It has said it wants to wipe out Israel. The majority of national intelligence agencys believe Iran is building a bomb. Case closed. Keep in mind I am not suggesting an invasion only a limityed strike on it's nuclear facilities.

2.Agreed (there is a lot less typing involved in agreeing)

3.Agreed (ouch) nevermind.

4.You underestimate their resolve. I have read quotes from many islamic nations including Iran claiming they will wipe israel out even if it costs them millions of people. You have to take their words at face value in these cases you can't risk being nieve. (but apparently I can't risk misspelling nieve)

5. Can you be more specific about these claims of our and Israels actions against Iran. I will say that I can understand why Iran wants a bomb (there are even probably some legitimate sounding reasons, I'm sure the drug dealer on the corner could invent some rational reasons he needs an UZI) but we should want them to not have one even more.

6. I guess I should have asked you to write your (superior imagination generated) answer down. In some of your supposed solutions I can see the workings of that giant imagination of yours.

All the trouble that Iran has recieved by our hands that I am awhare of is self induced. What is it about that country that makes you sympathetic. It is a very oppressive, radically idealogical place.

 

[Godobeyer]

I have no idea what you just wrote? Everytime someone challenges a fact I post I spend hours checking it out and find it is reasonably accurate or perfectly so. So I am not doing it anymore, I don't have time. If you don't like these then please ignore them. I can't understand any more of what you wrote other than some dislike of some of these facts so I don't know how to respond. I changed my mind, if you will pick one I will check it out, but after that Im done.

i wrote , it's maybe exagerate information or fake information

we can make anything wrong or right by no credibale sources (references ) sites .

as i know Just dubai (small city ) had big economies , which equal to bigest economy of the world .

 

[1robin]

i wrote , it's maybe exagerate information or fake information

we can make anything wrong or right by no credibale sources (references ) sites .

as i know Just dubai (small city ) had big economies , which equal to bigest economy of the world .

I am sorry but it's hard to figure out exactly what you are saying. Of course I am from Alabama, I can't understand anyone North of the Mason Dixon. As far as Dubai goes I can't understand what you mean. Dubai is not the largest economy even in the middle east even though it is rich for it's size. One last time I will offer to research any one claim in my list and provide references if you have one that's really bothering you. This is my last offer though. Where are from if you don't mind telling me?

 

[England my lionheart]

i wrote , it's maybe exagerate information or fake information

we can make anything wrong or right by no credibale sources (references ) sites .

as i know Just dubai (small city ) had big economies , which equal to bigest economy of the world .

Dubai is in a financial mess

Dubai given longer to pay back $2.5bn debt - Telegraph

 

[1robin]

Dubai is in a financial mess

Dubai given longer to pay back $2.5bn debt - Telegraph

I was going to look that up for that fellow that posted that it was a biggest economy in the universe. I always thought that Dubai was a kind of bubble that was going to burst at some point. I knew they were rocking for a while but it didn't look like it was going to last, and neither will all that oil money and then it will be the stoneage again in the middle east except for Israel that doesn't have that much oil to begin with.

 

[work in progress]

I wonder if the Israeli Zionists have realized yet that the Christian Zionists who are puffing up their egos are just interested in Israel fulfilling prophecies about the end times and a third of Israel being slaughtered, while the other 2/3rds do a last minute conversion to save themselves. Like they say - politics makes strange bedfellows!

 

[1robin]

I wonder if the Israeli Zionists have realized yet that the Christian Zionists who are puffing up their egos are just interested in Israel fulfilling prophecies about the end times and a third of Israel being slaughtered, while the other 2/3rds do a last minute conversion to save themselves. Like they say - politics makes strange bedfellows!

Prove this and I will respond to it. This is pure guesswork based it seems on more bias than facts.

Only a liberal could suggest it immoral to kill a convicted murderer, and then fight for the right to kill an inoscent child.

 

[Godobeyer]

Dubai is in a financial mess

Dubai given longer to pay back $2.5bn debt - Telegraph

i don't think so because in this crisse financial only the western countries whom get in trouble , non of the other big financial like china and arab world get in trouble .

 

[1robin]

i don't think so because in this crisse financial only the western countries whom get in trouble , non of the other big financial like china and arab world get in trouble .

You could be a wind talker, just when I think I know what you’re saying it slips away again. I’m not being insulting as English is probably not your primary language. English is my primary language and I cannot understand myself sometimes. If you will somehow communicate the fact that you want this to be the point from my list that will settle the issue I will thoroughly research it. Before you make up your mind I will warn you that some and maybe all of your statements above are likely incorrect but it's up to you.