10 outcomes on war with Iran

[fulp]

Pro tip: if you don't bomb something to ****, there's no need to rebuild it, either. Which is of interest to the American taxpayers, who get to bleed for both. It's also of interest to the Iranians, who would literally bleed. It's of less interest to those who earn by both dropping super expensive ordinance and "rebuilding", though, and since those tell people what to swallow, how to rationalize it, everything's fine I guess.

If you want the people to be well off, don't continually support the most brutal dictators you can find because they help maintain "stability" (until something goes wrong and you pretend you never knew them), stability meaning the stability of the process of US companies going in and dismantling everything of value, like copper thieves or something. And If you want to support liberty and democracy, support liberal and democratic forces existant (and struggling) within Iran right now. DON'T attack them, which will instantly completely lock the country down and make a lot of people disappear overnight. Yet that's exactly the modus operandi. The results are *not* an accident. These are no blunders. It's just that thinking so gives American citizens a fake sense of superiority over the very people who are ******* them so very hard while grinning right into their faces, and that delusion is always the easiest reaction to uncomfortable truths.

The issue here is gaps. Gaps between perception and reality, and gaps between the aims of the actual citizens of a country (I don't doubt your honest and good intentions, you know) and the makers of policy.

 

[garrydons]

Armageddon Online - 10 Key Outcomes From War With Iran That Few Are Talking About

Would it really be a good idea to go to war with Iran? Is it worth our security to protect Israel? And why can't we leave the Middle East alone? No good can come with going to war with Iran. And yet, it almost seems inevitable that we will. Will Washington really think this through?

Iran has been so vocal in there evil desire to annihilate the jewish people and to erase Israel from the map. Israel has the right to defend herself. that is why Israel will not allow Iran to produce nuclear weapons. One option is to have a preemptive strike. A nuclear Iran is not only threat to Israel but to the whole world. That is why, if we think of worldwide peace, Israel needs the support of other nations.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Every American should put their heads between their legs, stick their heads up their butts and pray to whatever idol they worship that Iran attacks Israel.

(so the USA can join a multi-national force to defend Israel)

That's the best outcome for the US. And Israel for that matter.

It seems to me that war with Iran is inevitable. If Iran has any sense, it will just wait and let Israel throw the first punch so Iran can get international sympathy.

I don't think that the USA can make war right now. If we do, it will destroy what's left of us.

 

[fulp]

Iran has been so vocal in there evil desire to annihilate the jewish people and to erase Israel from the map. Israel has the right to defend herself.

Sure, let them also talk trash.

That's what you were referring to, right? An eye for an eye? You cannot possibly have meant lots of bombs for a bunch of queer looks, right? Right?

A nuclear Iran is not only threat to Israel but to the whole world.

BS, citation needed. Official US sources say the very opposite as well:

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Prof Noam Chomsky: Iran is NO Threat (2011,University College London) - YouTube

And before you comment, watch the video. I'm referring to what he's quoting, not his opinions.

Now compare to what you just said to the actual military assessment. In case you don't see it: what you said is nuts.

Here's a real fact however: mindless fools who parrot every bit of trash fed to them, and justify and pay for war based on it, are an *actual* threat. One that doesn't require war to deal with, either. So why not start there, hmm?

 

[fulp]

It seems to me that war with Iran is inevitable.

Sure, if a thug constantly talks about raping the old lady next door, and starts to gear up, that might actually happen.

Nothing is inevitable however. That's a plain lie always, and designed to bring exactly that what is claimed to be inevitable about. It's Nazi 101.

 

[fulp]

It's Nazi 101.

So is equating the state, the interests of policy makers, and the actual citizens.

That's the best outcome for the US.

^ like that for example.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Sure, if a thug constantly talks about raping the old lady next door, and starts to gear up, that might actually happen.

Nothing is inevitable however. That's a plain lie always, and designed to bring exactly that what is claimed to be inevitable about. It's Nazi 101.

It's a mastery of an obstinate refusal to think.

Note: Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(the faster you get to the Nazis, the slower you are)

 

[fallingblood]

Here's a real fact however: mindless fools who parrot every bit of trash fed to them, and justify and pay for war based on it, are an *actual* threat. One that doesn't require war to deal with, either. So why not start there, hmm?

And that is different from what you're doing how? I mean besides the war part? Because nothing you have said is any different from the other anti-war individuals.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

And that is different from what you're doing how? I mean besides the war part? Because nothing you have said is any different from the other anti-war individuals.

*ahem*

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A nuclear Iran is not only threat to Israel but to the whole world. That is why, if we think of worldwide peace, Israel needs the support of other nations.

Building a nuclear bomb is one thing, intercontinental ballistics that can actually hit a target is another.
America, indeed the rest of the world, just needs to stay out of the Middle East and let them sort or there own problems on there own, as the outside Western influence has done nothing but make things much worse. They might even be able to get along for once if we weren't there standing over Israel's shoulder while pointing a gun at everyone else and telling them it's my way or the highway.

Nothing is inevitable however. That's a plain lie always, and designed to bring exactly that what is claimed to be inevitable about. It's Nazi 101.

Nah. The American government has perfected there own technique for over throwing an uncooperative, usually democratically elected, ruler and replacing them with a puppet that sold there soul. And if that puppet wants their soul back, as Bin Laden found out, the American government will see that puppet as expendable and have them replaced. It's also been a major problem in parts of South American and Africa, and probably just about anywhere else there is even a remote reason of interest to the American government. They just tell us that doom and horror are inevitable to get people to support what is nothing more than a movement to retain regional control.
The Nazis were however a very unusual case that happened because of many elements and factors coming into place at the right time.

 

[fulp]

I might as well have said Roman Empire. It's the same story every single time. I just thought I might make it easy for people who need the easy exit, and voila, no disappointment there ^^

It's a mastery of an obstinate refusal to think.

Note: Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(the faster you get to the Nazis, the slower you are)

Oh god, the irony. Care to address *anything*? Or do you only want to demonstrate what you accuse me of - refusal to think? Godwin's "law" states that with increasing length of any online discussion the probability of a Nazi comparison approaches 1. It says nothing about "loosing the argument", which is the completely FUBAR pop version of it. The pop version of a completely pointless thing, no less.

And I'm not arguing "this is wrong because it's similar to the Nazis" either, I'm arguing why it's wrong, and I threw that bit of polemics there in the end. And you say *I* am slow? Funny, nothing more. Remove the bit you didn't get, and try again with the rest, if you can. But otherwise try to find someone else to distract.

 

[fulp]

They just tell us that doom and horror are inevitable to get people to support what is nothing more than a movement to retain regional control.
The Nazis were however a very unusual case that happened because of many elements and factors coming into place at the right time.

You can say that about anything. Not even an apple is like any other apple. When it comes to fake threat scenarios to justify one's own aggression, I'd say it's pretty much spot on. I mean, just consider the rhetoric in this thread, compare with reality, and realize that basically dispelling all of it is at the fingertips of any literate person with internet access. But it doesn't happen, because it's more than ignorance or lack of opportunity, it's nationalism and Stockholm syndrome, willful blindness in short. And frankly, the Nazis were not ever half as powerful as America today, which has *hundreds* of military bases *all* over the world. So they don't murder millions of people for no good reason, and would rather control the financial institutions than have people hack stones in camps -- big deal, that just means being more effective. Not being morally *any* different.

More importantly, the Nazis did a lot of things, and one thing they were really obsessed about, and what very much impressed the US, was propaganda. So when you say (or imply) "Jews" I say "what-the-****-ever, way to miss the point, context is everything". And it's not like the Nazis would have been neat if it wouldn't have been for that pesky stuff with the Jews and Gypsies, either, not by any ******* means, and war is quite enough, doubly so when people start dick waving with nuclear weapons.

But hey, sure, for the feeble, let's call it "being like China"? Another popular "measure", heh. They're into that hive ****, too. Not "Chinese people", the party who runs it. They say "we" when they need your blood, sweat and tears, and when it's penthouse golf course time, that's quite private.

 

[Sunstone]

If the US goes to war with Iran, I wonder what the short and long-term prospects for the US economy might be? I cannot imagine them all that good.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If the US goes to war with Iran, I wonder what the short and long-term prospects for the US economy might be? I cannot imagine them all that good.

The news of another way may be devastating to the economy. Long term will be further generations that will be paying for more than an a decade of non-stop war, and what may become a war that spanned an entire generation should things be similar to Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Asking]

what if its a crushing victory?

I don't see how shock and awe tactics are going to be of any use in Iran. Once the initial disorientation has worn off the populace will turn against the invaders and the US will get bogged down in another unwinnable conflict. Not that the US is any good at it but a hearts and mind approach just won't work in Iran either and attemps to gain compliance through violence will just be met with violance from the populace.

Very quickly it'll just be another Iraq/Afghanistan where non-combatants find themselves getting caught up in the fighting and the only real solution is for the occupying forces to leave like we're doing in Iraq and will eventually do in Afghanistan.

As I said it would be better for the US to stick with what it's good at and use it's overwhelming military might to annex the resources they wish to stablise access to.

 

[fallingblood]

I might as well have said Roman Empire. It's the same story every single time. I just thought I might make it easy for people who need the easy exit, and voila, no disappointment there ^^

I'm assuming you don't know much about the Roman Empire then.

Oh god, the irony. Care to address *anything*? Or do you only want to demonstrate what you accuse me of - refusal to think? Godwin's "law" states that with increasing length of any online discussion the probability of a Nazi comparison approaches 1. It says nothing about "loosing the argument", which is the completely FUBAR pop version of it. The pop version of a completely pointless thing, no less.

When you call your opponents mindless fools, and start relating things to Nazi's, really there is no point in continuing to address anything you say. Because obviously you are a little emotional about this, and have an axe to grind.

 

[fallingblood]

Just as a side note, much of the Iranian population has no problem with Americans. In fact, many in Iran would be glad to see a regime change. This has been true for a very long time now. It is also true that they are suspicious of the American government, but that is a different topic.

 

[work in progress]

Haliburton?

And re: crushing victory.. victory for whom? When Americans say "we" (might attack Iran, or win against it), they're being funny I presume. Because they get ALL the costs, and none of the profit. You'll get more spying on Americans, more debt, more dead soldiers. And a bunch of BS to keep you warm at night, to make your insides all fuzzy. That has to be reward enough to be a disposable cog in the great man eating machinery. It's a great honour and the pinnacle of all things good and true. For God and country, good night.

Over 50 years ago, President Eisenhower warned of the growing Military Industrial Complex, and how the interests of the generals and the arms manufacturing industry could threaten democratic institutions at home, and generate costly wars abroad. Nowadays it looks like the U.S. is addicted to war. They can't even wait for wars to end before starting new ones.

The Obama Administration appears to be trying to avoid an all out war (at least before November), since the Iranian Government has a lot of influence in Iraq and Lebanon to widen a conflict. But the most obvious concern is that there will be oil tankers sunk in the Persian Gulf if either Israel or the U.S. starts the bombing campaign. The simple minded war hawks here (funny how it's always the ones waving their bibles in everybody's faces who are pushing for war!) think that the Iranian Navy and missile threat can be knocked out before they have a chance to close the Strait of Hormuz....but they don't have to! All they have to do is launch missiles or even crash a few high speed boats into one or two of those tankers and that's it! No oil is moving out... because those ships are too expensive to lose when the shooting begins.

And all of the warhawks that are clamoring for a bombing run will see what happens to gas prices after 20% of the world's oil exports are shut down indefinitely. The buyers will drive the price of oil up to secure their supplies, and the sky is the limit for where oil prices could end up.

The Obama Administration seems to recognize that it's game over for any sort of economic recovery once the real war starts, and that's why they would rather stay with the sanctions, the assassinations, and other features of the present cold war with Iran, and hope the regime can be toppled in favour of something a little more in line with U.S. and international business interests.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If the US goes to war with Iran, I wonder what the short and long-term prospects for the US economy might be? I cannot imagine them all that good.

If the Republicans hadn't brutally raped and then executed the manufacturing sector of the United States, war would cause a boom in the economy.

Then after they ruined the financial system to boot, war will only make a few people richer rather than fire up the economy like it did in WWII.

Interesting because their ruthless greed, there's no way they can fund their own warmongering. Morons.

 

[Sunstone]

Just as a side note, much of the Iranian population has no problem with Americans. In fact, many in Iran would be glad to see a regime change. This has been true for a very long time now. It is also true that they are suspicious of the American government, but that is a different topic.

That's exactly what they said about the Iraqis before we invaded and killed 250,000 of their civilians and made another 4 million homeless. They'll just love us in Iran, given our record.