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Do you care about truth?

Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
A Thousand Suns said:
Its true that happiness can be achieved without having faith but thats only temporary happiness .You'll find very less people who are truly satisfied with their lives , and I believe that satisfaction can only be achieved through Faith
“Those who believe, and whose hearts find contentment in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find contentment.” [Sûrah al-Ra`d: 28]

On the other had ,a person (non-believer) can achieve happiness through other worldly things Ie , For some, happiness is the material wealth they obtain, being able to spend their money as they like, buy whatever they want and consume more and more each day. For people like this, consumption, experiencing every beauty and pleasure, is the greatest source of happiness in their lives. Such desires are like a bottomless well-they never come to an end. Because of their desires people emerge who are never satisfied with anything they obtain, who always want more and better and who believe that they will be able to live happier lives if they acquire more things, and better things. However, these efforts only gain them a temporary happiness.

Quran describe the state of non-believers
"Their likeness is that of people who light a fire, and then when it has lit up all around them, Allah removes their light and leaves them in darkness, unable to see. [Surat al-Baqara: 17]
Click to expand...

I'm almost certainly happier than most people of faith, yet I am a non-believer. How do you account for that? You may not believe me, but then your disbelief in my happiness is powerless to affect my happiness. I am an older man who has seen much. You are certainly not the first younger person to come along sure and certain that only people who believe like he believes are happy in this world. Youth is like that: Sure and certain of foolish things.
 
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ellenjanuary

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
Midnight Pete said:
Atheists have kind of gotten a lock on this place, if you haven't noticed.
Click to expand...

Now, hold up there, Pete. Some of us are atheist-intolerant. It's a medical condition ;)

Do I care about truth? What kinda absurd question is that? How many words can I put in a post before those two words show up? You know what words - Gwyneth Paltrow. She is my truth; as absurd, as pathetic, as disturbing as it may sound - she is my sweet everything. But she's not everything; she's just a girl and I'm just an idiot. What is she, really?

One thing. She is the smile that adorns my walls, wherever those structures may be; and nothing else is as radiant as her grin. Not that she is truth, not that my love of her is truth; but there is - one thing - and then, there is everything else.

What of sunlight? The ancients believed night devoured day, like the lie hides the truth. But now we know, what makes plants grow; but for us, we grow in the dark. Life is fed by sunlight, but it is replenished by dream. A time for the whole to rest so that the parts can repair. We are not the truth of our biology, we are the living lie; three trillion cells make up this form, but only five letters hold that which cannot be contained - ellen.

Truth is, there are five vowels, twenty consonants, and something extra; that is neither. Y. Why debate? Everything has already been said, someone else already said it better, with more talent and scholarship. Why try, to speak of words that cannot even be defined beyond themselves? What is Truth when everything is true? What is truth when it lies between me and you? What is the game we're playing, when everybody wants to win; calling everbody else a loser, when the only thing to be gained, is death?

Y. The more we throw words at each other, the less we will be able to hide within the wording of ourselves; it is not a matter of me being right, it is knowing you cannot be wrong. Cannot, for no lie exists beyond the artifice of name; the walls we build each day, tear down each night. The walls once meant to keep the barbarians at the gate, now keep the barbarian inside.

It is not about happiness. It is not about comfort, or want, or need; it is about knowing - one - thing. And knowing that a living being is not made from knowing the most truth, but from knowing the absolute minimal lie.
 
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nonbeliever_92

nonbeliever_92

Well-Known Member
A Thousand Suns said:
Its true that happiness can be achieved without having faith but thats only temporary happiness .You'll find very less people who are truly satisfied with their lives , and I believe that satisfaction can only be achieved through Faith
“Those who believe, and whose hearts find contentment in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find contentment.” [Sûrah al-Ra`d: 28]

On the other had ,a person (non-believer) can achieve happiness through other worldly things Ie , For some, happiness is the material wealth they obtain, being able to spend their money as they like, buy whatever they want and consume more and more each day. For people like this, consumption, experiencing every beauty and pleasure, is the greatest source of happiness in their lives. Such desires are like a bottomless well-they never come to an end. Because of their desires people emerge who are never satisfied with anything they obtain, who always want more and better and who believe that they will be able to live happier lives if they acquire more things, and better things. However, these efforts only gain them a temporary happiness.

Quran describe the state of non-believers
"Their likeness is that of people who light a fire, and then when it has lit up all around them, Allah removes their light and leaves them in darkness, unable to see. [Surat al-Baqara: 17]
Click to expand...


Wow, it's almost as if this is related to my OP.
 
nonbeliever_92

nonbeliever_92

Well-Known Member
Storm said:
Indeed.


The theophany was the catalyst for belief. At the time, my only concept of God was theistic: a loving, protective parent. I had already rejected that belief, and having no ideas with which to replace it, that left me an atheist. It was only after the even eliminated that option that I went looking for another model.
Click to expand...

So would you agree that your Theophany is the linchpin of your belief?

And, may I ask, where'd you get your current model?
 
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Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
nonbeliever_92 said:
So would you agree that your Theophany is the linchpin of your belief?
Click to expand...
I think that would be fair, yes.

And, may I ask, where'd you get your current model?
Click to expand...
20 years' obsessive reflection, and a few reinvented wheels along the way! :D

I'm afraid there's not a simple answer to that. My theological journey has been rather colorful.
 
Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
I'm almost certainly happier than most people of faith, yet I am a non-believer. How do you account for that? You may not believe me, but then your disbelief in my happiness is powerless to affect my happiness. I am an older man who has seen much. You are certainly not the first younger person to come along sure and certain that only people who believe like he believes are happy in this world. Youth is like that: Sure and certain of foolish things.
Click to expand...

Does that Real Doll of yours have a name yet?
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
nonbeliever_92 said:
Okay, so it's been a while since I've posted a thread and I'm not sure how this'll turn out, but anyway I have a few simple questions:

Does the perception that your belief(s) (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief(s) or does the happiness you get from your belief(s) (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief(s) as true?
Click to expand...
My beliefs tend to give me a peace of mind, which im more concerned about than happiness.
happiness is for love making and music. beliefs are meant to deal with realities and society and about finding your sense of peace and belonging in both, as a side effect you might also feel happy.

What leads you to perceive your belief(s) as true?
Click to expand...
I perceive them to be practical, but my beliefs are more political than religious.

What tools or processes do you use to scrutinize your belief(s) and their truth value?
Click to expand...
expose them to fierce criticism, debate them, practice them, and test them in every day life interaction.
 
jarofthoughts

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Midnight Pete said:
Hope to children? The atheist worldview is toxic to the souls of children.
Click to expand...

Mate, I'm a special education teacher. ;)
The "atheist worldview" does not enter into it.

Hope is not exclusively connected to religious faith, and if we were talking about religion then the word "tangible" would be misplaced.


PS: Also, if you want to get picky, you have yet to empirically show that there even is such a thing as the soul, or if such thing should exist, that a lack of belief in a deity somehow is "toxic" to it.
 
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Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
jarofthoughts said:
Mate, I'm a special education teacher. ;)
The "atheist worldview" does not enter into it.

Hope is not exclusively connected to religious faith, and if we were talking about religion then the word "tangible" would be misplaced.


PS: Also, if you want to get picky, you have yet to empirically show that there even is such a thing as the soul, or if such thing should exist, that a lack of belief in a deity somehow is "toxic" to it.
Click to expand...

I agree that hope is not exclusively connected to religious faith, but it's antithetical to the cynicism and misanthropy touted by atheism's celebrity figures.
 
jarofthoughts

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Midnight Pete said:
I agree that hope is not exclusively connected to religious faith, but it's antithetical to the cynicism and misanthropy touted by atheism's celebrity figures.
Click to expand...

Cynicism?
Misanthropy?

When has any of them touted that?

For instance I find the writings of, say, Richard Dawkins to be both beautiful and full of hope and not in the slightest misanthropic whereas Sam Harris seems both intelligent and compassionate, and if you cannot find hope in the writings of Carl Sagan I don't know where you would find it.
 
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