Do you care about truth?

[Storm]

Hmm, I shall try to express this as best I can.

I mean, that it seems to me that believers in 'god' 'higher power' 'ultimate purposes' etc. ultimately fall back on an emotional reason as to why they have their faith.

Not really, at least in my case. I don't believe because I want to. If not for my theophany, I'm pretty sure I'd be an atheist. Also, as mentioned upthread, I've abandoned things that I very much would like to believe because they just didn't fit anymore.

I percieve their beliefs seem to rest on emotional comfort rather than a desire to know the truth.

Well, that's a stereotype, and those are virtually useless.

That's essentially what I'm trying to understand with this thread, and most of the other threads I posted, I'm trying to get to the core of why someone has theirs beliefs and whether or not they are scrutinizing the reasons with a clear eye.

My motives/ explanation are the same as yours: I believe what I do because it's the model that best fits my experiences.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Everything. That's not a cop out. I reached my current beliefs by analyzing all the data I have available, from hard science to mysticism.

Alright, based on my most remedial understanding of your beliefs, you percieve the uiniverse as a living sentient being or a part of one, no?

 

[Storm]

Alright, based on my most remedial understanding of your beliefs, you percieve the uiniverse as a living sentient being or a part of one, no?

Yes. I believe in what someone cleverer than I dubbed "the living Godiverse."

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Yes. I believe in what someone cleverer than I dubbed "the living Godiverse."

Alright, so what and how exactly in science supports this belief of a "Living Godiverse."

 

[Midnight Pete]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You expect to be persecuted, so you see it everywhere you look.

I do expect it, because that's just the reality. Christian is the new gay. In terms of political correctness, Christians and LGBT have switched places.

There are plenty of Christians here who feel they're treated fairly, too.

With all due respect, that does not mean a whole lot coming from you, Storm.

 

[Storm]

Alright, so what and how exactly in science supports this belief of a "Living Godiverse."

Fair question, but one based on miscommunication, I believe.

There is nothing in science that would conclusively point to such a being, but that wasn't what I meant when I said I consider it. Rather, I believe that any sound theology must be compatible with science. In my case, there is no evidence (to my knowledge) that would argue against such a thing.

To illustrate the point, YEC is incompatible with science. Assuming my intellectual honesty held, even if I wanted to believe in such a thing, I would reject it as not fitting what we know of the world.

Make sense?

 

[Storm]

I do expect it, because that's just the reality. Christian is the new gay. In terms of political correctness, Christians and LGBT have switched places.

Case in point.

With all due respect, that does not mean a whole lot coming from you, Storm.

Ask them, then. Start a Christians-only poll.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

I mean, that it seems to me that believers in 'god' 'higher power' 'ultimate purposes' etc. ultimately fall back on an emotional reason as to why they have their faith. .

Not really, at least in my case. I don't believe because I want to. If not for my theophany, I'm pretty sure I'd be an atheist. Also, as mentioned upthread, I've abandoned things that I very much would like to believe because they just didn't fit anymore.

Is your theophany not an emotional reason for your faith?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Case in point.


Ask them, then. Start a Christians-only poll.

Atheists have kind of gotten a lock on this place, if you haven't noticed.

 

[Storm]

Is your theophany not an emotional reason for your faith?

Yes and no. It was emotionally powerful, make no mistake, and forms the core of my faith.

That said, when it comes down to whether believe in it or not, I view it as another datum. Whether it was a message from God, a paradigm shift, or a neurological illusion, it happened, and must be accounted for in my analysis.

No matter how deeply moving it was, if neurotheology revealed it to be hallucination, I would accept that.

 

[Storm]

Atheists have kind of gotten a lock on this place, if you haven't noticed.

I haven't. But then, I'm not looking to be persecuted.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Fair question, but one based on miscommunication, I believe.

There is nothing in science that would conclusively point to such a being, but that wasn't what I meant when I said I consider it. Rather, I believe that any sound theology must be compatible with science. In my case, there is no evidence (to my knowledge) that would argue against such a thing.

Fair rebuttal, but is their anything in science that lends to it?

To illustrate the point, YEC is incompatible with science. Assuming my intellectual honesty held, even if I wanted to believe in such a thing, I would reject it as not fitting what we know of the world.

Make sense?

Yes, but I'm asking is there anything dealing with your Godiverse that science supports with it or does science remain silent on the matter?

 

[Storm]

Fair rebuttal, but is their anything in science that lends to it?

No.

Yes, but I'm asking is there anything dealing with your Godiverse that science supports with it or does science remain silent on the matter?

Well once the premises of my theology are accepted, corroborating evidence is everywhere. Evolution would be a prime example, as would trance states. It's all interpretation, though.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Yes and no. It was emotionally powerful, make no mistake, and forms the core of my faith.

That said, when it comes down to whether believe in it or not, I view it as another datum. Whether it was a message from God, a paradigm shift, or a neurological illusion, it happened, and must be accounted for in my analysis.

No matter how deeply moving it was, if neurotheology revealed it to be hallucination, I would accept that.

But you said yourself that you might be an atheist if not for your theophany, no? Has your belief revealed itself from around the theophany, or has it grown from a separate source? If that's a little convoluted, I'm asking whether you believe what you believe because of the theophany, or did you believe it beforehand and you theophany just lent to it.

 

[Penumbra]

As I am understanding from your 'religion' status, you believe in karma no? Could you tell me from basic human history, workings of the world and the universe where karma fits in? Can you show me where it doesn't?

No, I don't believe in Karma in the way you're thinking.

"atheistic karma yoga" is a description that most concisely describes my subjective worldview and lifestyle based on philosophical and religions readings that I've been most influenced by. Think of it as a life philosophy rather than a religion. It's not something that includes an objective metaphysical claim about reality, so "belief" doesn't factor in.

 

[Storm]

But you said yourself that you might be an atheist if not for your theophany, no?

Indeed.

Has your belief revealed itself from around the theophany, or has it grown from a separate source? If that's a little convoluted, I'm asking whether you believe what you believe because of the theophany, or did you believe it beforehand and you theophany just lent to it.

The theophany was the catalyst for belief. At the time, my only concept of God was theistic: a loving, protective parent. I had already rejected that belief, and having no ideas with which to replace it, that left me an atheist. It was only after the even eliminated that option that I went looking for another model.

 

[Penumbra]

I do expect it, because that's just the reality. Christian is the new gay. In terms of political correctness, Christians and LGBT have switched places.

Maybe that's the case on Clakson, Canada (although I'd wager it's not, but who knows).

In my country, where gays cannot marry, the religious right has a fairly strong hold on politics and the government, and just thrashed opposition in the latest election.

 

[Storm]

On the subject of science and theology, a totally unrelated quote just summed up my feelings:

"All these theories are plausible, but there is no evidence for any of them."

I think that's largely where we are with science and God. Good theology is scientifically plausible, or not contradictory. None have evidence in favor.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I care about the truth, but it turns out I can't handle the truth.

 

[blackout]

I care VERY much about living True to mySelf.

To Thine Own Self Be True.

Reaching in deep
and living artistically
is very rewarding.
You might even say it makes me "happy".