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Do you care about truth?

nonbeliever_92

Well-Known Member
Okay, so it's been a while since I've posted a thread and I'm not sure how this'll turn out, but anyway I have a few simple questions:

Does the perception that your belief(s) (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief(s) or does the happiness you get from your belief(s) (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief(s) as true?

What leads you to perceive your belief(s) as true?

What tools or processes do you use to scrutinize your belief(s) and their truth value?

And are you being honest with yourself?

Of course I'm not expecting absolute certainty of you and your beliefs 'cause that's just absurd.
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
The former.

I often envy theists the simple comforts of their particular brand of faith, but if you don't believe it....
 
Truth = preciption.... what one person sees as true, may not be true to another.
It all depends on each person's personal truths...
 

nonbeliever_92

Well-Known Member
Truth = preciption.... what one person sees as true, may not be true to another.
It all depends on each person's personal truths...

I disagree, there is a clear difference between what is believed as true and what is actually true. It's the difference between reality and delusion, fact and fantasy, being correct (or, rather, being close to being correct) and being mistaken.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Happiness is irrelevant to the truth value of something, at least to me.

Orbital speaks for me here. So did Sagan when he said something like he'd rather know the universe for what it really is than believe otherwise, no matter how reassuring.
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
Okay, so it's been a while since I've posted a thread and I'm not sure how this'll turn out, but anyway I have a question:

Does the perception that your belief (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief or does the happiness you get from your belief (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief as true?
Its true that happiness can be achieved without having faith but thats only temporary happiness .You'll find very less people who are truly satisfied with their lives , and I believe that satisfaction can only be achieved through Faith
“Those who believe, and whose hearts find contentment in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find contentment.” [Sûrah al-Ra`d: 28]

On the other had ,a person (non-believer) can achieve happiness through other worldly things Ie , For some, happiness is the material wealth they obtain, being able to spend their money as they like, buy whatever they want and consume more and more each day. For people like this, consumption, experiencing every beauty and pleasure, is the greatest source of happiness in their lives. Such desires are like a bottomless well-they never come to an end. Because of their desires people emerge who are never satisfied with anything they obtain, who always want more and better and who believe that they will be able to live happier lives if they acquire more things, and better things. However, these efforts only gain them a temporary happiness.

Quran describe the state of non-believers
"Their likeness is that of people who light a fire, and then when it has lit up all around them, Allah removes their light and leaves them in darkness, unable to see. [Surat al-Baqara: 17]
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Its true that happiness can be achieved without having faith but thats only temporary happiness .You'll find very less people who are truly satisfied with their lives , and I believe that satisfaction can only be achieved through Faith
“Those who believe, and whose hearts find contentment in the remembrance of Allah: for without doubt in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find contentment.” [Sûrah al-Ra`d: 28]

On the other had ,a person (non-believer) can achieve happiness through other worldly things Ie , For some, happiness is the material wealth they obtain, being able to spend their money as they like, buy whatever they want and consume more and more each day. For people like this, consumption, experiencing every beauty and pleasure, is the greatest source of happiness in their lives. Such desires are like a bottomless well-they never come to an end. Because of their desires people emerge who are never satisfied with anything they obtain, who always want more and better and who believe that they will be able to live happier lives if they acquire more things, and better things. However, these efforts only gain them a temporary happiness.

Quran describe the state of non-believers
"Their likeness is that of people who light a fire, and then when it has lit up all around them, Allah removes their light and leaves them in darkness, unable to see. [Surat al-Baqara: 17]
I'm curious: how does this perspective deal with people like myself? Religion is my great passion; I seek after God with all my heart. This impossible dream gratifies and fulfills me like nothing else. Yet, I am not a Muslim.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Does the perception that your belief (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief or does the happiness you get from your belief (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief as true?
That's actually a lot more convoluted even than it sounds :) because 'the perception that a belief is true' is not the same thing as 'having a (true) belief'. (In other words, the two sides of your see-saw aren't the same length.)

We believe things because they are perceived as true. I think I can answer your question best by saying I'm happy in my beliefs just because I have some.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
Its true that happiness can be achieved without having faith but thats only temporary happiness .You'll find very less people who are truly satisfied with their lives , and I believe that satisfaction can only be achieved through Faith

I agree that you can get a lot from faith, happiness included. Although, it's a personal thing. What you find happiness in, the next person might not. Same with religion, you might find happiness in it, the next might not.

I don't think faith is the basis for true happiness or satisfaction. Not for me anyway.
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Its true that happiness can be achieved without having faith but thats only temporary happiness .


With all due respect, how can you presume to know what does and doesn't make others happy? How can you presume to know what another person believes, thinks and feels, what motivates and inspires them?

Do these presumptions stem from your reading of religious texts? Do you presume to know the minds of others as if you were Allah yourself because you believe you have read His thoughts on paper, because they are supposedly contained in a book you read?

Seriously, I don't mean to offend you, so please don't take this the wrong way. But unless you personally have some trick for reading the minds and motivations of others, you really have no idea what makes others happy and whether or not their happiness is substantivly real or transitively temporary, do you?
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
I'm curious: how does this perspective deal with people like myself? Religion is my great passion; I seek after God with all my heart. This impossible dream gratifies and fulfills me like nothing else. Yet, I am not a Muslim.
I really would appreciate an answer on this. I won't get offended.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Okay, so it's been a while since I've posted a thread and I'm not sure how this'll turn out, but anyway I have a question:

Does the perception that your belief (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief or does the happiness you get from your belief (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief as true?

I would say I'm content living with what is true, believing whatever comes across directly, of which my beliefs coincides with whatever is being experienced.
I feel happy at times depending on what transpires of course, yet even when not feeling happy, it doesn't negate my appreciation of what is.
 

St Giordano Bruno

Well-Known Member
Truth can be like beauty, it can be just in the eye of the beholder. Fashion is one such classic example, how many people believed they looked cool with a certain haircut and then they look at photos of themselves in it in 20 years time they thought "gees I looked rediculous then!"
 

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Okay, so it's been a while since I've posted a thread and I'm not sure how this'll turn out, but anyway I have a question:

Does the perception that your belief (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief or does the happiness you get from your belief (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief as true?

just because I feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesnt mean the cause of that warm/fuzziness is real.


Im happy because I believe my belief is real.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Okay, so it's been a while since I've posted a thread and I'm not sure how this'll turn out, but anyway I have a question:

Does the perception that your belief (or lack of belief) is true make you happy about your belief or does the happiness you get from your belief (or lack of belief) lead you to percieve your belief as true?
Sometimes I have to follow truth even when it doesn't make me happy.
 
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