Jewish Perspective on Jesus Christ?

[Caladan]

Shalom.

Please forgive me if I note that I am rather well read on both 2nd Temple Period Judaism and historical Jesus 'research' (read "informed speculation"). I am also aware of the relative weight of Progressive Judaism in Israel. I just hope you [come to] appreciate the Reform/Progressive Judaism of the US and elsewhere. "Rabbinical Judaism" is far less monolithic than you seem to imply.

I always get the impression that the reform movement is at odds with the rabbinate, Jay.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I always get the impression that the reform movement is at odds with the rabbinate, Jay.

I suspect that we are using the term "rabbinate" differently.

 

[TheKnight]

In case you're not paying attention, this thread is not in a debate forum. I'm looking for answers from Jewish RFers, please.

As a Christian, I know who I believe Jesus Christ to be. I also know that Muslims consider Him to be a great prophet and teacher but not the Son of God. They don't believe He ever claimed to be divine or that He was resurrected from the dead. What do Jews think about the man, Jesus? I know they don't see Him in the same way Christians do, as the Son of God, the Messiah, the Redeemer of the world, etc. and I suspect they don't see Him as the Muslims do either. I'm almost guessing that they believe that He never really existed or (more likely) that they hold a very negative view of Him, considering Him to be a blasphemer and a fraud. Am I right, or do they think of Him more like the Muslims do?

The view of traditional Judaism is that Jesus is irrelevant. Just as George Patton is irrelevant to your life and how you live, Jesus is irrelevant to my life and how I live. Basically, they see him as a normal human being (if he existed).

 

[TheKnight]

I always get the impression that the reform movement is at odds with the rabbinate, Jay.

I think he means that maybe you should consider Reform and Conservative Rabbis (which outnumber Orthodox ones--I think) as part of the Rabbinate, which would mean that "modern Rabbinate" includes those of the Conservative and Reform movements...

 

[Caladan]

I'm referring to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think he means that maybe you should consider Reform and Conservative Rabbis (which outnumber Orthodox ones--I think) as part of the Rabbinate, which would mean that "modern Rabbinate" includes those of the Conservative and Reform movements...

I would appreciate it if you would respect the guidelines of the Judaism forum. Thank you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm referring to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.

I understand. I think we do a serious disservice when we implicitly dismiss the growing rabbinate of the world's Progressive and Conservative movements.

That said, I'm sure we'd both agree that the "Jewish Perspective on Jesus Christ" is anything but monolithic.

 

[Caladan]

I understand. I think we do a serious disservice when we implicitly dismiss the growing rabbinate of the world's Progressive and Conservative movements.

That said, I'm sure we'd both agree that the "Jewish Perspective on Jesus Christ" is anything but monolithic.

There is nothing monolithic about Jewish culture, as they say... 2 Jews, three opinions.
so whether we are talking about streams within Jewish culture or religion and the study of Jesus and early Christianity, nothing is an absolute, and the opinions vary.
To me Jesus and early Christianity are part of our history worthy of acknowledgement and study, others in this thread have stated that it bears no significance in their [Jewish] thought.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To me Jesus and early Christianity are part of our history worthy of acknowledgement and study, ...

We may differ here, but the question of historicity is best left to another thread.

 

[TheKnight]

I would appreciate it if you would respect the guidelines of the Judaism forum. Thank you.

I read the rules of the DIR forums before posting here (because I've had other members comment about my posting here before). It does not prohibit people who are not of a particular race from posting in a particular forum.

That being said, the Judaism forum refers to the religious aspect of Judaism (which I am an active part of). It is not a forum that is limited to those who are of the Jewish race (which is separate from the Jewish religion). I believe in Orthodox Judaism as far as I understand what Orthodox Judaism is.

In addition to that, the DIR forums do not prohibit a person from another religion posting in a particular forum so long as they are not inciting debate or attacking that religion. If the poster (of another religion) is posting in a DIR forum, they simply have to be asking a question about that religion.

I am an active giving member of Orthodox Judaism and though I am not a Jew by race, I do fully believe in the religion of the Jewish people.

As such, I have not violated this forum's rules by posting here.

 

[idea]

For example, the messiah's father was supposed to be of the bloodline of David.. yet according to the New Testament Jesus had no earthly father.. yes his stepfather was of that line.. but it was not his bloodline. That is just one of the examples.

Do Jewish people accept that Jesus was not born from an "Earthy Father"? Who do you believe the father of Jesus was then?

 

[idea]

There is nothing monolithic about Jewish culture ...

just curious, I have heard that "m" makes a word plural in Hebrew - like
The plural of cherub is cherubim, child children etc. etc.

is Eloheim a plural word?

If so, what is it plural of? The plural of El? Elohe?

on another note...
17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy10:17)

What other "gods" do you see Him ruling over?

"
And the reasons include, but are not limited to:
- he comes across as a false prophet
- he has nothing but scorn and contempt for the righteous and learned Torah scholars of his day,

scholar vs. prophet...
The OT is full of prophets. Are the Jewish people led today by any prophets?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Do Jewish people accept that Jesus was not born from an "Earthy Father"?

No.

Who do you believe the father of Jesus was then?

Speaking personally, I don't know and I don't care.

Many Jews... especially Orthodox Jews, also don't know and don't care.

 

[idea]

For example, the messiah's father was supposed to be of the bloodline of David..

would it matter if he were from the bloodline of David?
are there people now alive who can trace their ancestry back to the line of David? (if there is one from this line who you believe is yet to be born?)
You should check out the LDS genealogy resources – there are a few lines we have been able to trace way way back … it's fun to see what blood runs in your veins.


How about to the tribe of Levi? Isn't that where priests come from? (priests needed for temple work - once a temple is built?)

just curious. Thanks for answering.

 

[Caladan]

just curious, I have heard that "m" makes a word plural in Hebrew - like
The plural of cherub is cherubim, child children etc. etc.

is Eloheim a plural word?

If so, what is it plural of? The plural of El? Elohe?

of Eloha (אלו&#1492

on another note...
17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy10:17)

What other "gods" do you see Him ruling over?

A possibility is that he is the One God, above the heathen gods. I can also see it receiving a more esoteric interpretation by some people.

scholar vs. prophet...
The OT is full of prophets. Are the Jewish people led today by any prophets?

In this age I would rather have a nation of scholars than a nation led by prophets and infected with messianic fever.

 

[Poisonshady313]

would it matter if he were from the bloodline of David?

Yes.

are there people now alive who can trace their ancestry back to the line of David? (if there is one from this line who you believe is yet to be born?)

Sure. Not all of them know that they can... but there are indeed descendants of David and Solomon around today. For example, the late Lubuvitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson was in the line of David.

How about to the tribe of Levi? Isn't that where priests come from? (priests needed for temple work - once a temple is built?)

More commonly, Levites... and even Kohanim (priests) know who they are today.

 

[Katzpur]

Sure. Not all of them know that they can... but there are indeed descendants of David and Solomon around today. For example, the late Lubuvitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson was in the line of David.

Really? That's pretty cool that someone could trace his genealogy back that far.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

just curious, I have heard that "m" makes a word plural in Hebrew - like
The plural of cherub is cherubim, child children etc. etc.

is Eloheim a plural word?

Sometimes. See here.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Really? That's pretty cool that someone could trace his genealogy back that far.

One might even call it unbelievable.

 

[Autodidact]

Do Jewish people accept that Jesus was not born from an "Earthy Father"? Who do you believe the father of Jesus was then?

No. Assuming there ever was such a person, He had a dad like everyone else.