You're no Christian

[Sonny]

I didn't say there are no standards - just that the Bible might not be as definitive as I thought you were suggesting. Of course I chose "obvious" examples - although there remain those who still insist that "true" Christians remain under at least some of the Mosaic Law obligations including at least one of my examples.

It is also true, I think, that either believing in or even religiously following Biblical precepts, does not necessarily make you a "Christian". (see James 2:19; 2 Timothy 3:5 for example).

So you're right, I suppose, the definition is to be found in the Bible (he said, apparently doing a complete U-turn) but I think for it to be meaningful, it should be more about what your Church teaches you to do for others (as per my previous post on Matthew 25:31-46 for example) than about exactly what you believe or which particular Biblical moral injunctions you choose to subscribe to. After all, "Christ's" ministry was entirely concerned with the good he could do for others - wasn't it?

Christianity is solely about Jesus- from His miraculous birth to His awesome Resurrection. His Resurrection is the defining moment of God's Plan of Salvation and the foundation of Christianity's belief system. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead then the rest is worthless.

PS - I no longer call myself a Christian and don't belong to any denomination so from that POV my views and beliefs are entirely irrelevant to anyone else - unless they choose to consider them.

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you call yourself a Christian any more?

 

[Sonny]

Baptized into the name of Jesus means you're a Christian. Meaning you call Jesus, Lord. So it could be more accurate to say all these other things don't make you a Christian.

One need not be baptized to be saved. All baptizing means is that you understand what it means to be baptized in Christ (off with the sinful old man, in with the new life in Jesus). And, you have chosen to acknowledge that you are a sinner and have accepted God's free gift of salvation and Jesus as Lord, Savior and God incarnate. But it must be the right Jesus. That is very important. Otherwise, we end up being one of those who 'work' for Christ but are sent away by Him at the Judgment bc we served the wrong one.

 

[savagewind]

One need not be baptized to be saved. All baptizing means is that you understand what it means to be baptized in Christ (off with the sinful old man, in with the new life in Jesus). And, you have chosen to acknowledge that you are a sinner and have accepted God's free gift of salvation and Jesus as Lord, Savior and God incarnate. But it must be the right Jesus. That is very important. Otherwise, we end up being one of those who 'work' for Christ but are sent away by Him at the Judgment bc we served the wrong one.

Because we are not serving with him.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In another thread a poster said in effect that some professed Christian churches aren't truly Christian because they do or don't do this, that, and the other thing.

My question: What churches, or denominations do you feel do not deserve to call themselves Christian, and why?


.

It would make my life easier and that of many others if those who follow the Bible would say they're Christian (following the Christ who is explained in the Bible) and everyone else would say, "Not a Christian, not really."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It seems to me that same opinion should apply to someone saying she is born again. Being so is a state of mind and purpose for which you do not have the qualifications to know what it means.

I disagree. To me, "born again" implies a particular state of being that could be true or false. This is different from being an adherent of a religion, which is almost tautological: a religion is defined by the beliefs of its adherents, so any belief held by a religion's adherents is within the scope of the religion's beliefs.

This doesn't mean that some purported authority in the religion will consider every belief of every adherent correct, of course.

 

[Milton Platt]

Honestly, and my humble opinion?

I dont consider a denomination christian if its members dont work together as the body of christ. I wouldnt say they dont deserve not having the christian name. Just christ didnt teach being a solo christian.

Hope christians, though, who feel this way would share their views.

But what does that mean? It is obviously open to intrepretation.

Ouch.

Or perhaps they were all true christians viewed by anyone looking in from the outside, since determining who is correct ends up being an opinion.

 

[David1967]

My question: What churches, or denominations do you feel do not deserve to call themselves Christian, and why?

Often times, I don't deserve to be called a Christian myself, so I will not lift up myself to a level that I tell another that they are not deserving of the title of Christian, or even worse ,that they are not a Christian at all. IMHO, a persons relationship with God and their chosen denomination is their personal choice and viewpoint. I think it would be a better approach for us all to focus on our own faith rather than passing judgment on another for theirs, whether it is Baptist, Mormon, Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran, JW, etc. and etc. IMO ,God is more interested in the heart of said believer than the title of the church denomination.

 

[Milton Platt]

It would make my life easier and that of many others if those who follow the Bible would say they're Christian (following the Christ who is explained in the Bible) and everyone else would say, "Not a Christian, not really."

But all the thousands of different Christian sects all point to the others and say they are not Christian, but all will say they follow the bible (which in reality they all simply cherry pick parts to follow)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It would make my life easier and that of many others if those who follow the Bible would say they're Christian (following the Christ who is explained in the Bible) and everyone else would say, "Not a Christian, not really."

How would that make things easier? Everyone from Catholics to Baptists to Pentecostals to Quakers to Mormons sincerely believe that they're "following the Christ who is explained in the Bible." Many of them believe the other denominations aren't doing this.

The label "Christian" has never been used to signify doctrinal correctness.

 

[Milton Platt]

In my opinion, any denomination that believes in Jesus as a divine person and his most basic teachings (Jesus as the son of the only god who, because of his death, allowed for mankind to be saved from Hell) can call themselves Christian. I say this because of the label itself, Christian as a word just means "of or relating to Christ," so to be a Christian, one's beliefs must be Christ-related. Any further qualifications, I feel, aren't necessary to be Christian by definition. A "good" Christian maybe, but that's really an entirely different debate.

Therein lies the problem for those who are non-Christian and ask such questions. All there is to go by are opinions.

 

[Sonny]

I don't see why being "a hypocrite, liar and lost" precludes one from calling oneself a Christian. Judgement is a different issue - for Christian, I would have thought that would based on Matthew 25:31-46 - so if your Church is teaching feed the hungry, clothe and shelter the poor and minister to the sick and oppressed - from a Judgement point of view, it can call itself Christian. Of course you don't have to be (or call yourself) a Christian to do those things.

I may have already replied to this but...
Doing good things for the right reason does not make one a Christian. I kinda posted the verse about those types of people on Judgment Day saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, did we not ...do works in ur name. Jesus will say, Depart from Me (bc they had not accept the right Jesus in their hearts as Lord, Savior, Redeemer and God). An old saying goes like this, 'There are better people than you and me in Hell today'. Being a Christian is about Jesus. If we confess our sins, admit we are sinners and accept Jesus as 'the only way' to God then we are 'saved' and Christians. Clearly, the guy on the cross next to Jesus had never done any works for Him, never been baptized and, apparently, had never known Jesus until that fateful day when both were nailed to a cross. But, he realized who Jesus was, acknowledged Him and humbled himself and asked, basically, for forgiveness. That day he was in paradise with Jesus.

 

[Milton Platt]

I may have already replied to this but...
Doing good things for the right reason does not make one a Christian. I kinda posted the verse about those types of people on Judgment Day saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, did we not ...do works in ur name. Jesus will say, Depart from Me (bc they had not accept (the right) Jesus in their hearts as Lord, Savior, Redeemer and God). An old saying goes like this, 'There are better people than you and I in Hell today'. Being a Christian is about Jesus. If we confess our sins, admit we are sinners and accept Jesus as 'the only way' to God then we are 'saved' and Christians. Clearly, the guy on the cross next to Jesus had never done any works for Him, never been baptized and, apparently, had never known Jesus until that fateful day when both were nailed to a cross. But, he realized who Jesus was, acknowledged Him and humbled himself and asked, basically, for forgiveness. That day he was in paradise with Jesus.

Interesting how horrible people can supposedly go to heaven and good people can go to hell. It seems to do violence to both justice and mercy

 

[David1967]

All there is to go by are opinions.

Isn't that in fact what a denomination (or religion in general) is? An opinion as to what a particular group believes is correct?

 

[chessplayer]

In 40 plus years as a follower of Christ , I have enjoyed different " denominations " at different times , I love a good black gospel type meeting , a nice charismatic C of E gathering in a magnificent Gothic cathedral , or a small group in a poor run down urban city shop front , the main question is , " is Jesus there ?"
The only ONE thing in life that is important " IS JESUS THERE ?"

 

[David1967]

But all the thousands of different Christian sects all point to the others and say they are not Christian, but all will say they follow the bible (which in reality they all simply cherry pick parts to follow)

Respectfully, I think you are over generalizing. Many do as you say, but not all.

 

[chessplayer]

Cause , if He ain`t there , you are gubbed !

 

[Milton Platt]

Isn't that in fact what a denomination (or religion in general) is? An opinion as to what a particular group believes is correct?

Totally

 

[David1967]

gubbed

Now that is a word I haven't heard before.

 

[Kemosloby]

You're a Christian if you're baptized Christian. What does it mean to be Christian? You become part of the promise made to Abraham and his "seed" Christ. You promise to follow Christ and Christ promises to resurrect your dead arse on the last day. If you suck at being a Christian and don't follow Christ, does your unfaithfullness nullify Gods faithfullness to keep his part of the promise? Nay, but your rewards will be small in heaven.

Romans 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God's faithfulness? Absolutely not! Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that You may be justified in Your words, and prevail in Your judgments.”…

 

[savagewind]

But all the thousands of different Christian sects all point to the others and say they are not Christian,

The only religion that I am sure says that all other religions are not true Christian is the Jehovah's Witness religion.