You're no Christian

[savagewind]

How do you know Moses obeyed God, except the bible tells you? God talked to Moses, he was a prophet. Then Moses relayed the message to the people expecting that they would follow the message.

I don't know for certain that Moses obeyed God but people who equate the Bible and God do. Don't you?

 

[savagewind]

Actually, there are some plumbers that I'd trust more with my car than some mechanics.

If I want to know authoritatively who is and isn't licensed in a profession, I'll go to the authority: maybe the authority has issued a certificate to the person that they hang in their workplace. Maybe they'll have a little wallet card. Maybe they'll be listed in an online directory of practitioners.

In any case, I shouldn't have to take the person's word for it that they've been deemed qualified to do what they do.

If we're going to extend this analogy to Christians, then I shouldn't accept anyone's word that they're actually a Christian unless God has expressed to me in some sort of clear and obvious way that the person is a Christian. Maybe a little wallet card reading "I certify ______ as a True Christian(TM). Signed, Jehovah. This card remains the property of the issuer and must be returned on request."

Does that sound reasonable?

Sigh! Am I on your ignore list? The question was about churches. According to you, can a person be considered Christian if she attends a place of worship that is not all right with her?

 

[savagewind]

I think it is ludicrous that people take to heart that the Bible is as good as GOD, but it is written there in the Bible that the perfect image of God wouldn't even equate himself with GOD.

 

[Thief]

In another thread a poster said in effect that some professed Christian churches aren't truly Christian because they do or don't do this, that, and the other thing.

My question: What churches, or denominations do you feel do not deserve to call themselves Christian, and why?


.

i gave up congregation....having been to several different kinds....

What i notice about the Carpenter....
He did miracles.....He taught parables

so....if you walk on water, raise the dead, feed thousands at a moments notice...
if the blind see and the lame walk by your command....
disease and bad storms leave for a touch or wave of your hand.....

fine.....you're a Christian

or you could do the easy thing and learn to speak in parables

most practitioners do none of the above

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sigh! Am I on your ignore list?

No. Why?

The question was about churches. According to you, can a person be considered Christian if she attends a place of worship that is not all right with her?

No, not according to me. That post was exploring the implications of the approach Sonny described.

My personal approach is this: if someone says they're a Christian and I think that they're sincere when they say it, I take them as a Christian.

"Christian" is the term for members of a religion (or, more accurately, a spectrum of religions)... and that's all. It isn't some signifier that God considers that person's beliefs and practices to be correct; that's a separate question, and even if every Christian was wrong about their beliefs (a possibility I might be willing to put money on), they'd still be Christians.

 

[paarsurrey]

In another thread a poster said in effect that some professed Christian churches aren't truly Christian because they do or don't do this, that, and the other thing.
My question: What churches, or denominations do you feel do not deserve to call themselves Christian, and why?

There is not a single denomination or even a single individual among the Christianity worthy to be called Christian, if they mean from that they follow Jesus. Jesus himself was never baptized as a Christian, as he never founded it.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Please
No intention to disrespect any denomination or person, please
Regards

 

[savagewind]

No. Why?



No, not according to me. That post was exploring the implications of the approach Sonny described.

My personal approach is this: if someone says they're a Christian and I think that they're sincere when they say it, I take them as a Christian.

"Christian" is the term for members of a religion (or, more accurately, a spectrum of religions)... and that's all. It isn't some signifier that God considers that person's beliefs and practices to be correct; that's a separate question, and even if every Christian was wrong about their beliefs (a possibility I might be willing to put money on), they'd still be Christians.

I asked because it seems that you might consider a person as like their chosen religion.
A person is not his or her religion. To think so is scary, I presume.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I asked because it seems that you might consider a person as like their chosen religion.
A person is not his or her religion. To think so is scary, I presume.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Religions are defined by their adherents, not the other way around.

 

[savagewind]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Religions are defined by their adherents, not the other way around.

I don't agree with that. Religion defines its adherents.
For instance, I was Jehovah's Witness for almost twenty years. Many times I doubted that they had some certain precepts right, but I still gave the institution my support. I ended it when I was told that to trust in the governing body was God's will for me.

 

[Thief]

I think the struggle for definition will never end

no two people read ANY scripture in the same way

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't agree with that. Religion defines its adherents.
For instance, I was Jehovah's Witness for almost twenty years. Many times I doubted that they had some certain precepts right, but I still gave the institution my support. I ended it when I was told that to trust in the governing body was God's will for me.

But if you had decided to call yourself an "unaffiliated Jehovah's Witness" after you left, I would have said "okay."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think the struggle for definition will never end

no two people read ANY scripture in the same way

What does scripture have to do with deciding who is and isn't a Christian?

 

[savagewind]

But if you had decided to call yourself an "unaffiliated Jehovah's Witness" after you left, I would have said "okay."

Yes, I agree. I suppose I have myself covered both ways. LOL

 

[savagewind]

@9-10ths_Penguin I wonder if when I was told by a church that I was born again you would say, "okay"? And I wonder if I told you that I was really born again you would say, "okay"?

I think that the real church of God in Christ is the spiritual gathering together of all the people born again in Christ. OK?

I think that Christain is the word that the world uses to describe people who believe in God's promise fulfilled in Jesus (not his real name imo). It has never been confirmed that Heaven calls the people who believe in a human born savior "Christian".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

@9-10ths_Penguin I wonder if when I was told by a church that I was born again you would say, "okay"? And I wonder if I told you that I was really born again you would say, "okay"?

No, I wouldn't.

Acknowledging that your beliefs fall under the umbrella of "Christian" (or "JW") is not the same as taking them as correct.

I think that the real church of God in Christ is the spiritual gathering together of all the people born again in Christ. OK?

Then "the real church of God in Christ" and "Christians" don't necessarily describe the same people.

I think that Christain is the word that the world uses to describe people who believe in God's promise fulfilled in Jesus (not his real name imo). It has never been confirmed that Heaven calls the people who believe in a human born savior "Christian".

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

[Thief]

What does scripture have to do with deciding who is and isn't a Christian?

scripture is quoted as reference
a Christian would of course quote the New Testament
(and almost anything else)

but yes......a focus on the life and ministry of the Carpenter

 

[savagewind]

No, I wouldn't.

Acknowledging that your beliefs fall under the umbrella of "Christian" (or "JW") is not the same as taking them as correct.

Interesting because if I said I was JW but I didn't act like one would you still say, "OK"?

Then "the real church of God in Christ" and "Christians" don't necessarily describe the same people.

That is correct

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.

I believe Christian is a condescending word that was first coined by a person who wasn't a disciple of the one called Jesus Christ.

 

[1AOA1]

Everybody has their own standards and everybody thinks their standards are the standard.

Standard in producing what?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Interesting because if I said I was JW but I didn't act like one would you still say, "OK"?

I don't have any qualifications for what it means to "act like a JW", so there's nothing you could do that would make me say "you aren't a JW even though you sincerely say you are."

 

[savagewind]

I don't have any qualifications for what it means to "act like a JW", so there's nothing you could do that would make me say "you aren't a JW even though you sincerely say you are."

It seems to me that same opinion should apply to someone saying she is born again. Being so is a state of mind and purpose for which you do not have the qualifications to know what it means.