Your thoughts on dogs

[Sahar]

Prohibition of having a dog as a pet shouldn't be bound to the issue of showing mercy to animals. You can show mercy to animals without owing a dog inside the house as a pet!!!

Secondly whether the dog is impure or nor, it's a controversial topic between the scholars.

“As for the impurity of the dog, the great scholar Ibn Taymiyyah mentions three views of jurists regarding the impurity of the dog:

The first the view is that of the Malikite scholars, who hold that dog is pure even its saliva.

The second view is attributed to the Shafi`i School and one of two narrations from Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal. They are of the opinion that dog is impure even its fur.

The third view is ascribed to the Hanafi School and the other narrations from Imam Ahmad. They maintain that dog's saliva is impure while its fur is pure.

According to Ibn Taymiyyah, the third view is believed to be the most correct.”

Read more: IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

As for trading in dogs:

Moreover, Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, adds:

"Imam Muslim narrated in his Sahih that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have prohibited the price paid for buying a dog. In his commentary on Imam Muslim’s narration, Imam An-Nawawi stated that the prohibition mentioned in the hadith is meant for selling dogs in which there is no benefit. Selling and buying such dogs is prohibited according to the above hadith.

However, some Muslim jurists, such as Imam Abu Hanifah, stated that there is nothing wrong in buying and selling dogs in which there is benefit that can be gained from that, for example when the dog is kept for the purpose of hunting or guarding. Ibn Al-Mundhir, `Atta’ and An-Nakhi`e state that it is permissible to sell hunting dogs.

On the other hand, Imam Ash-Shafi`i states that trading in dogs is totally prohibited. However, Imam Malik states that trading in dogs is permissible irrespective of whether the dog is for guarding, hunting or any other purpose. Imam Abu Hanifah states that the permissibility in dog’s trade is restricted to hunting, guarding dogs and for dogs that are kept for a religiously acceptable reason in which there is no harm inflicted upon the buyer (such as buying a dog to guide a blind man)."

Read more: Trading in Dogs - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

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[Sahar]

Firstly because of "The Cave" To say angel's won't appraoch in the presence of dogs when any angel actively involved it's self with those in the cave including the dog appear to be contradictory.

The Shari'a allowed us to own dogs for guarding, in the farms and to help a blind man for example.
So who told you that the dog of the people of the cave wasn't for guarding them for example?

It appears to me the issue of having the dog as a pet is already settled in Islamic Shari'a. So if I were you, even if I had some doubt about this ruling, I would stay away from any source of suspicion. Just thinking that this issue could possibly be haram, this should be enough motive to stay away from it. Moreover, I wouldn't earn money from such source of suspicion. Anything except the money whose source can possibly be haram. If this means I would have to sacrifice my want or it might affect the business, then this is a test God put me in...if I am ready to sacrifice something I like for Him or not. There are people out there who give most of their time, money and effort for the sake of God. There are others who give up their souls for the sake of God. Where are we from all those if we can't give up some habits and traditions?

 

[Kathryn]

I slept and I remembered a verse:
Quran ( 5:8)

Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well-Acquainted with what you do.

So I apologise for all the chaos I made, I had read many posts of yours before this one where you showed such a superiority attitude towards Muslims and I directly found this comment of yours after it so I had a bit enough of it.

So I apologize again and sorry after all, if any mod could delete my posts on this thread except this one than it would be good. You may even try to report them Kathryn.

Peace

Thanks, I think.

I don't feel superior to Muslims though. And if you can find a post I've ever written that seems otherwise, or see one in the future, please feel free to call me out on it, because it is not my intention to give that false impression.

I will continue however, to denounce violence in the name of religion from ANY sector - including Christians. But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about dogs!

And I will not report you - I have never reported a post or a forum member and I don't intend to start now. This is a place where freedom of expression is allowed, and I appreciate that freedom.

Hope you have a good day and I hope this exchange helps us understand each other better in the future.

 

[Kathryn]

If a man from the South can't arrange his priorities because he might give up having a dog inside his house, then the I think there is something really wrong with this man from the South. Seriously, the prophet Muhammad and His companions sacrificed their money and their souls for this final religion. They and their families were tortured, kicked out of their homes and killed but a man in 2010 shall deny the final religion because he want to keep his dog inside his house. Amazing!!


The Shari'a allowed us to own dogs for guarding, in the farms and to help a blind man for example.
So who told you that the dog of the people of the cave wasn't for guarding them for example?

It appears to me the issue of having the dog as a pet is already settled in Islamic Shari'a. So if I were you, even if I had some doubt about this ruling, I would stay away from any source of suspicion. Just thinking that this issue could possibly be haram, this should be enough motive to stay away from it. Moreover, I wouldn't earn money from such source of suspicion. Anything except the money whose source can possibly be haram. If this means I would have to sacrifice my want or it might affect the business, then this is a test God put me in...if I am ready to sacrifice something I like for Him or not. There are people out there who give most of their time, money and effort for the sake of God. There are others who give up their souls for the sake of God. Where are we from all those if we can't give up some habits and traditions?

Even though I am not Muslim,this is an excellent post and you bring up some good points for people of any religion to ponder.

 

[TJ73]

Just to respond to a few things;
I am a pet groomer, not a vet.
I ALWAYS, before and since Islam put the welfare of ANY human being far above any other creation. I show kindness and concern for all creation but People above all.
This subject is something I will reflect on as well as my own intentions.May Allah guide me.
If my business has done anything good it has made a small, American mostly Christian community closer to a Muslim, which many have told me they never met one. Allhumdiallah.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Pet groomer , meaning you're selling dogs? If so than what does this has to do with dogs inside your house ?

 

[Starsoul]

It is not fair to compare the costs of keeping a pet with that of helping others. Zakat and other nonobligatory donations constitute a much larger investment than the upkeep of a pet. Also the two are not mutually exclusive. It would be unwise to say not to keep a pet and save the money for another being. With that I could retort, what do you eat, what do you wear, how big is your house, do you drive, what luxuries do you afford yourself? In all cases you could cut back your own lifestyle and save substantially more money than if you were to rid of any pets in your possession. There can be a balance between the two that is not hard to achieve.

Secondly the references that indicate that dogs are unclean are related to hadiths by the Prophet who clarified that a portion of good deads are retracted from a person who keeps a dog in their abode daily. The reasoning behind this is that these dogs are unclean. This would be true in the Prophet's time as many viruses and bacteria existed among the feral. In the modern world, I believe one would be hard pressed to make an argument that a dog is "impure".

Since they are no longer unclean then there should not be any emphasis placed on dogs alone correct? The Prophet clearly showed a love of animals and there is also an incident with his companion who was mournful when his songbird died. There is a strong emphasis that humans are to treat the creations of Allah with respect and kindness and given the conditions that a dog is no longer impure is it really sensible to attack our fellow brothers and sisters who happen to own them as pets?

As DIR I look forward to Muslim responses to refine my view and Inshallah increase our knowledge in the matter

purity isn't only a germ related thing, if that was so, pigs can be disinfected and kept in sterile environments, would you then start having them too on the grounds that the ' condition' of impurity is apparently removed?

Who is supporting having a big house, a flashy car , a meal at an expensive resturant every saturday,and big macs every other day? I do not support or carry a lofty life style, i Specifically am annoyed with people who are so at ease with luxury that the only misery in their lives is not having a specific brand of this or that and a vacation to an XYZ place every year, I do not even like migrating to non conforming forgien countries for a better... (what? cant figure out) ,i appreciate people who can live happily within modest means without feeling any loss on their self esteems or sensibilities.

Kindness to animals is unanimous, but there are some limitations on it, I know its hard sometimes to leave what you like the most, but thats what Allah wants to teach us, if we don't learn to prioritize our deen, look at what becomes of muslims, all over the world. Luxury has a price which we choose to pay through foregoing of our deen, and some like to keep their deen stepping over their desires, no matter how slightest or smallest the part that they can grab of it.

If anyone has heard that story where a sinning person was granted mercy only because for once in his life time he had given water to a thirsty dog and thats all Allah liked to grant him mercy for. People follow deen according to their own level of committment (and some , only till its convenient), I , may not be able to follow at all, but i ruthlessly defend the rights of those who want to go an extra mile, to excel in every way they deem possible, to please Allah.

It is disappointing that people who themselves do not think that way, feel that the commitment level only felt by them towards religion is all that there is to it.

There is always room for more on the way to submission, some like to preserve their Nafs (Desires), and some like to preserve and grow their Eeman ( faith).

 

[TJ73]

Pet groomer , meaning you're selling dogs? If so than what does this has to do with dogs inside your house ?

No, I don't sell and livestock. We groom them and I sell pet food and products. Let me say, there is need for what I do since people have manipulated the dog in such a manner that they can no longer manage the bodies they have without our intervention( which we have done to other domestic animals as well). I certainly see the logic in not keeping house pets on many levels far above cleanliness. I have customers that short of their pets have no companionship. Children have moved away, spouses died and nary a person to even see after if they are alive or dead. I try to get s close as I can to these people and let them know there is a person that will see after them and that they can call on me for anything. As people we often drop the ball on other people and don't make the effort to be a companion and they go to animals. There are people I know that put more love and effort into their dogs than any other person. Pet ownership can sometime lead to unnatural comfort in living without human companionship and a degradation of the ability to have human relationships., I do my best to reach out in that case as well, let them see the value of people. They have often been jaded by the hurt people inflict.
Allah has shown his mercy in that he introduced the path slowly and gently. I believe I recently read here that it was 13 years before the women were told to cover. Allah knows best and knows our struggles and intentions.Allhumdiallah, I am grateful to be subject to a loving merciful Creator. I pray for His patients with me, I know I'm a hard case.

 

[Starsoul]

No, I don't sell and livestock. We groom them and I sell pet food and products. Let me say, there is need for what I do since people have manipulated the dog in such a manner that they can no longer manage the bodies they have without our intervention( which we have done to other domestic animals as well). I certainly see the logic in not keeping house pets on many levels far above cleanliness. I have customers that short of their pets have no companionship. Children have moved away, spouses died and nary a person to even see after if they are alive or dead. I try to get s close as I can to these people and let them know there is a person that will see after them and that they can call on me for anything. As people we often drop the ball on other people and don't make the effort to be a companion and they go to animals. There are people I know that put more love and effort into their dogs than any other person. Pet ownership can sometime lead to unnatural comfort in living without human companionship and a degradation of the ability to have human relationships., I do my best to reach out in that case as well, let them see the value of people. They have often been jaded by the hurt people inflict.
Allah has shown his mercy in that he introduced the path slowly and gently. I believe I recently read here that it was 13 years before the women were told to cover. Allah knows best and knows our struggles and intentions.Allhumdiallah, I am grateful to be subject to a loving merciful Creator. I pray for His patients with me, I know I'm a hard case.

I sooooo agree with you!!!! Ive lived in this place where i have seen many many people well in to their middle ages and running around with dogs only, and it makes me so sad that human companionship has suffered a huge blow in some societies and dogs have replaced it. ( ok the real dogs I mean )It does happen, but i guess there are a whole lot of other factors paving for such lonely life styles.

And i have to say this ,that at such a novel level of knowledge, you are MAshALLah way ahead most of us in good understanding of deen I Love the spirit and positivism in your manner and I pray whole heartedly for you to grow more in eeman and be blessed bountiful with ease, comfort and happiness forever. Such a delight to know you, may Allah always be with you ameen

 

[TJ73]

Thank you so very much. I can't tell you how much that touches me. Such kind words. May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon you as well, sister.

 

[Nerthus]

By the way, our dogs DO sleep in our bedroom - on their dog beds though, not on our bed! We do not allow them in the bed. But we do let them climb up in our laps sometimes, which is ridiculous because they weigh about 50 pounds each!

Ah see mine do sleep on our bed And on the sofas. It's the dogs home too so we let them up - unless they are muddy then they can't!

Also, just to say I understood what you meant.

~

I for one, didn't know that there was anything said about dogs in Islam, so it's really interesting to learn about it.

 

[TJ73]

Mashallah. But remember Muslim's are not just from one place or culture. Especially in the US, where I live. We are also very much converts, like me and our cultures are diverse. Although I admire large active families, a lot of us don't have that, and it can often be strained further when we revert. And you may want to note that most people that own dogs are not forfeiting a relationship with their families. It has always been part of American culture and European because of their service. In the Victorian era status became associated with purebred dog ownership. but pet owners are not looking to take away from family but to add another element. I am not advocating Muslim dog ownership, I just want to clarify the intentions of non-Muslims

 

[Starsoul]

Mashallah. But remember Muslim's are not just from one place or culture. Especially in the US, where I live. We are also very much converts, like me and our cultures are diverse. Although I admire large active families, a lot of us don't have that, and it can often be strained further when we revert. And you may want to note that most people that own dogs are not forfeiting a relationship with their families. It has always been part of American culture and European because of their service. In the Victorian era status became associated with purebred dog ownership. but pet owners are not looking to take away from family but to add another element. I am not advocating Muslim dog ownership, I just want to clarify the intentions of non-Muslims

I totally understand what you mean , and i do know that a dog is a part of American culture, i was only giving my two cents on the opinion of gabriel withoutwings, incase he'd know that Muslims are not condescended into thinking low of themselves if they do not let dogs inside of their homes, as some part of his post carried an unsuitable comment for a DIR I absolutely dislike retorting but oh well, bad habit :cover: do Forgive..

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

with much respect, First of all, it rings as quite uncanny when you throw an idle comment in a DIR when there isn't a debate going.

There isn't a debate going because we're in a DIR. That's the nature of the beast. That's what 'With respect' means. It means I disagree with you, respectfully.