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You see there IS evidence for God's nonexistance..

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Runewolf1973, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Runewolf1973

    Runewolf1973 Materialism/Animism

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    look at all the violence and all the pain and suffering going on in the world...look how many children were killed today needlessly..makes my stomach turn. Omnipotent being....

    Why do people pray to a god that sits back and does NOTHING!!!

    Last month I organized a run with the local Jeep club to go around and collect warm winter clothing and blankets for the homeless people. Together we collected enough clothing donations to fill the entire drop off bay at the shelter. Here's the thread on that...
    It's going to be a cold one....

    God had no part in that. I think God would have just as soon let them all freeze to death. I took the initiative and went out and did something. A prayer to God...any god, is only time wasted. That's just how I see it. For anything good to be done in this world we have to do it ourselves.
     
    #1 Runewolf1973, Dec 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2012
  2. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    The problem of evil has been around for millenia. Today's tragedy isn't going to shake people away from their faith, nor is it evidence for the nonexistence of any higher power whatsoever.

    It's just evidence of the nonexistence of certain manifestations of that power.

    I, for example, do not believe in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God, and haven't for years. But I'm still a theist.
     
  3. JayaBholenath

    JayaBholenath Local demon

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    Vanakkam,

    I completely agree on that.

    Not because I don't see Devi Mata in the sky seated on a cloud, not because I don't see Her appear in all her glory to magically heal the sicks and make everyone happy doesn't mean She do not exist.

    I see Her everywhere around me. In many shapes. The action of a woman, who take her time to make soup to give it to the poors is a manifestation of Her power, of Her presence. Those actions based on compassion and love bring us closer to the perfection of Devi Mata, the Mother Godess, as we are One.

    People should not expect divine intervention to make solutions to every problems falling out of the skies. People should act, just like you did. Good actions bring good consequences, good consequences bring more goodness, and goes far and far larger than a single individual. Like dominos: push one, many fall.

    Law of Karma are for good as well as for bad things. Only us can take actions. Praying is useful. It depend what you pray for.


    Aum Namah Shivaya
     
  4. idav

    idav Being
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    At some point humans have to take responsibility for themselves even in a world where there is some magical being that can intervene at any given moment. Humans would be a pretty pointless existence if we always had to have our messes cleaned or prevented.

    If an omnipotent being really existed I'd be surprised we are still here which leaves me with the impression that god is not omnipotent in the first place.
     
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  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    The "problem" of evil has no standing to a polytheist, and fails as evidence against the existence of the gods.

    Generally speaking, the gods aren't here to serve or aid humanity. Further, those gods that are not utterly indifferent to our existence are hardly confined by our limited notions of morality. They have their role to play and play it. Sun Spirit does not choose to shine, and as it shines, it is not doing so out of benevolence or malevolence. It is simply doing what it must because of its essence. The gods that do take some interest in human affairs cover a broad spectrum of things. Gods are patrons of what humans consider to be "negative" aspects of reality as much as they are patrons "positive" aspects of reality.
     
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  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Jeep club?
     
  7. Runewolf1973

    Runewolf1973 Materialism/Animism

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    I pretty much agree with you all that it's not evidence for God's nonexistence. What I said was more of an emotional response than anything. ;)
     
  8. Runewolf1973

    Runewolf1973 Materialism/Animism

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    Yah, it's called Alberta JK Owners.
     
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Ah, o.k. I thought perhaps it was an acronym or something.
     
  10. FunctionalAtheist

    FunctionalAtheist Hammer of Reason

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    I think it strongly suggests the nature of 'evil' and 'good' are not some idealistic absolutes. If there are demons and angels, the gates of heaven and hell, and if good and evil represent some objective reality independend of human thought, then it would seem the emodiment of evil is free to walk around unopposed by the all benevolent good.

    It does not disprove a god. But it does give credibility to the claim that god is doing freaking lousy job.
     
  11. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    :hugehug:I figured as much.
     
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  12. ForeverFaithful

    ForeverFaithful Son Worshiper

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    OH NO NOT THE PROBLEM OF PAIN!!! Well you win, guess I'll call the Pope up and tell him we lost, its a darn shame
     
  13. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    Ah, the problem of evil for the 1,000 time.

    Life is eternal but 'Problem of Evil' believers view things from the limited perspective that life begins at birth and ends at death.The natural illusion.

    I try to look at life from the perspective that life is eternal and we are in the process of learning that. We live as individuals for eons and not one life. We all return to godhead in the end. If one could see one's life from seperation from godhead through the eons to return to godhead then things make more sense. What we see as evil (like the shooting) are very short temporary events in the grand scheme of things where each individual story ends in sucess; return to peace/bliss/awareness of godhead.

    There wouldn't even be such a thing as hapiness if there wasn't such a thing as unhapiness; if all the dramas were removed, it would just be a static-state sameness. Nothing would propel us to question, advance and grow.
     
  14. Runewolf1973

    Runewolf1973 Materialism/Animism

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    Just look at pretty much any of my earlier posts...like when I was more active on the forum a year or two back or so. You'll see that my perspective on life and death is in fact very far from limited.

    I just get kinda choked up when I see innocent people...especially children suffering needlessly for stupid reasons. Can you really blame someone for that?
     
    #14 Runewolf1973, Dec 14, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  15. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    Dude, he's on twitter. You sound so old.
     
  16. JayaBholenath

    JayaBholenath Local demon

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    Vanakkam,

    You can blame someone, you can blame many people for those kind of things. What is the use in the end ?

    I am a deep lover of animals, from the mouse to the magpie I have been a mother for wild hurt animals. I am especially very fond of cats.
    In the city I moved people treat cats very badly.

    Last winter I found two baby cats, abandoned in a parc, sick, hungry, nearly dying because of the cold.

    I could have blamed much people: thé ones that abandoned them, thé ones that come here and do nothing, I could just have give them some food and go away blaming people.

    Instead I took them in my place. I had to make room in my little appartement, but they were better here. Then I spent a week, in thé middle of exams, looking for a family for them. It was hard, very very hard, but in the end they are now happy, in a warm house with food and love. Seeing them grow up is the best gift I could have for all the difficulties.

    Hearing the story and seeing my fight, People at my school began to do the same. 5-6 cats since then have been saved.


    All of this just to say : don't blame people. Inspire them to be better. Inspire yourself from others to be better.
    Will it solve anything ? What are 6 cats compared to the millions suffering ?
    It's the six first drops of an ocean. Make it happen. Fight for it.


    Aum namah Shivaya
     
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  17. chinu

    chinu Passenger

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    Once there was a heavy flood in the village and within few minitues water level started rising, All villagers were standing on the roofs of their houses, praying god to save them, After some time one life boat came to save them, But one man who was having more than enough of trust in god, refused to go with them by saying.. God will save my life.

    Now the water level reached to the second floor of his house, and again one life boat came to save his life, But agian he refused to go with them by saying.. "God will save my life".
    Now the water level was on the third floor of his house, and again one life boat came to save his life, But again he refused to go with them by saying.. "God will save my life"

    Finally.. he died.

    Now he was in front of God in heaven, asking him about the reason for not saving his life.

    Said God.. Three times i sended the boat for you, But you refused.. what else can i do more than this.... Man! ? :D

    I hope you are understanding my point.:)
     
  18. RJ50

    RJ50 Active Member

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    The deity, if it exists, obviously enjoys watching the suffering of its human pawns, probably the reason for our xcreation. Think how a human would be condemned if it could prevent someone suffering by chose not to help!
     
  19. ForeverFaithful

    ForeverFaithful Son Worshiper

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    OBVIOUSLY, because there's no other possible reason for the problem of pain, Theologians like St. Augustine and C.S. Lewis were just a bunch of lunatics, I mean that idea that suffering could be redemptive pfffft, I'm glad YOU'RE so much smarter than God.
     
  20. Runewolf1973

    Runewolf1973 Materialism/Animism

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    Maybe YOU should stop blaming me for having a simple human reaction...or at least that's what it seems like you're doing. That's all it was, nothing more. Didn't mean to offend the god-believers and I know very well that it's pointless to try and blame god for this. For the record, I DO inspire people to be better, hence the Jeep run for the homeless that I organized. I simply wish people would spend more time doing the good in the world and less time praying and waiting for God to do it for them. I guess in a way I blame people that act like sheep and do nothing. We need more wolves.
     
    #20 Runewolf1973, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
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