YOGA is of the DEVIL?

[lovemuffin]

What about Christian monks who meditated in times past? Were they of the devil?

For example hesychasm(quote from wikipedia):

Maybe someone realized that this leads to finding yourself and most of the reasons to be religious go away.

Hesychasm is still practiced in orthodox monasticism for what it's worth.

 

[metis]

This is not at all surprising to hear, mainly because I've heard it all before. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But I maintain my stance. Yoga came from Hinduism, is a central Hindu practise, and to this day literally reeks of Hinduism. It has Hinduism written all over it. But over the years many people, mainly because they couldn't reconcile the two beliefs
1) Hindusim is bad, of the devil, un-Abrahamic.
2) But the practises have benefit.

Those two beliefs just didn't make sense, so they tried to separate them, pretend there was no connection. That's all fine too. It is a free world after all. This sort of thing happens all the time. For awhile American car companies bought Japanese cars en masse, and gave them an American name, so they'd be American and Americans then bought them. "I sure won't buy one of those Jap Toyotas, but the Chevy Nova is so much better." So people do get fooled by the label.

Sorry, but Hindus don't own yoga and more than us Jews own monotheism. Secondly, yoga is a means to an end but not an end in and of itself, and Hinduism goes well beyond just doing yoga. And Buddhism, which obviously evolved out of Hinduism, shares at least some of that practice. Again, you don't own it.

Thirdly, there is absolutely no way that you or I or anyone else can determine when, where, how, and by whom yoga first was done. You may have a belief, but the word "belief" isn't synonymous with the word "fact".

 

[leibowde84]

I didn't say it was good or bad. (maybe I did .. can't remember) But it does seem to be disrespecting the church authority for sure. The good bishops and cardinals must have put a lot of thought into their message.

Confusion ... well it is confusion. Not sure if it's bad or not. But it is the mind holding two often contradictory viewpoints about the nature of God. Kind of like two different natures within you, each pulling you in their direction. (Basically the old dual versus non-dual stuff, but more too) So I'm not really sure if it's good or bad. Sometimes great things result from the effort to clarify the confusion.

If you only stick to Christianity and consider every other faith system as being "wrong" (both in accuracy and morality), then you are literally a "know-nothing-know-it-all," as you are limited to one single point of view.

How on earth could anyone claim to know that Christianity is the "one true faith" without having first explored other systems of belief?

 

[Vinayaka]

How on earth could anyone claim to know that Christianity is the "one true faith" without having first explored other systems of belief?

You tell me. Some do, and I've had the wonderful luck of bumping into some.

 

[BSM1]

What is there to say other than dumb, dumb, dumb?

You might want to add dumb to that list...

 

[leibowde84]

You tell me. Some do, and I've had the wonderful luck of bumping into some.

They are just ignorant and mistaken. They might THINK that they know that Christianity is the one true faith, but that is merely an illusion because, as I said before, you cannot know which is best until you have explored the rest.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actual photo from a local yoga lair....

 

[Jainarayan]

It's not God or the nature of God that is the problem. It's the people (of all faiths, everywhere) who pretend to know the nature of God, claiming their way is the only way, and saying what God is and isn't. They all claim there is only one God but they act and talk like there are multiple Gods. If Yahweh/Jehovah, Allah, Brahman are not the same God, then almost half the world's population are polytheists... 3 different Gods?

 

[sun rise]

And that's the kicker, Starry. Often they're not aware, so in a way it's deceptive, but usually unintentionally. Heck, half the yoga teachers themselves don't know it's origins.

So let's make it clear.

Yoga is Hinduism. Hatha yoga (often incorrectly called Yoga) could be perceived as stretching exercises. But generally hatha yoga is not taught in isolation, there is a beginning chant, everyone Aums etc. there is breathing (pranayama). These are all Hindu practices.

It should be noted that "Yoga" is not limited to Hatha. There is, for example, Bhakti Yoga, which is to me what Christians refer to as the first "Greatest Commandment".

Yoga forms were indeed originally part of Hinduism. In the West, that is not true any longer for many. So today, in the West, the physical part of Hatha yoga is indeed taught in isolation. Further when I was going for physical therapy for a back problem, I was asked to do a cobra. I shocked the PT by knowing it was a cobra

And there are in fact quite a few practitioners of "Christian Yoga".

I might have been better to call what many do in the West by another term, but that did not happen.

 

[Tumah]

I suspect religions often create enemies for the same reasons that nations so often do: To rally their followers and discourage internal dissent.

That's crazy talk.

 

[metis]

Again, a reminder that we simply do not know when yoga first started or by whom. Even though we mostly associate its past with Hinduism, there is absolutely no way it can be determined that this was the first element to use it. These things tend to evolve over time, often being modified as they evolve.

However, yoga was extremely important and heavily used by Hindus as far back as we can take it.

 

[Jainarayan]

I might have been better to call what many do in the West by another term, but that did not happen.

Why re-invent the wheel when a perfectly good word already exists to describe a practice?

 

[Vinayaka]

They are just ignorant and mistaken. They might THINK that they know that Christianity is the one true faith, but that is merely an illusion because, as I said before, you cannot know which is best until you have explored the rest.

Oh, we definitely agree.

But for others reading, here's a more official response to this stuff.

TakeYogaBack | Hindu American Foundation (HAF)

 

[ChristineES]

I've started ignoring things like this. People see evil in everything: TV, books, etc. The thing, the real evil things people (murder, rape, child molestation, etc) do to each other on a daily basis is ignored.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've started ignoring things like this. People see evil in everything: TV, books, etc. The thing, the real evil things people (murder, rape, child molestation, etc) do to each other on a daily basis is ignored.

Aye, they're paying attention to things which distract from real problems.

 

[Poeticus]

Yoga is not Hinduism since the faith is much more extensive than just that, but it may have been first developed within Hinduism, and it obviously has been extensively used by Hindus and, later, others. There simply is no way for us today to posit exactly when, how, and by whom yoga first started.

Correction:

Yoga is an integral part of Hinduism. It is an Astika darshana (which is a fact, by the way, since you were so keen to point out your "facts"), making it, by default, central to Hinduism. Please stop detailing what Hinduism is if you aren't Hindu, and please stop amputating something central to my faith just so it can come across as more palpable. There is no need to loot.

 

[leibowde84]

Correction:

Yoga is an integral part of Hinduism. It is an Astika darshana (which is a fact, by the way, since you were so keen to point out your "facts"), making it, by default, central to Hinduism. Please stop detailing what Hinduism is if you aren't Hindu, and please stop amputating something central to my faith just so it can come across as more palpable. There is no need to loot.

Don't bogart Yoga then. Why does it bother you that people would use Yoga for secular purposes?

 

[Poeticus]

Don't bogart Yoga then. Why does it bother you that people would use Yoga for secular purposes?

They can use it for all the secular purposes they want, but to discard the fact that it is an Astika darshana is to participate in intellectual suicide. Just cause you pay fees to a yoga class doesn't mean you own it. Yoga is a central part of Hinduism. To not acknowledge this is to misappropriate.

 

[Vinayaka]

It should be noted that "Yoga" is not limited to Hatha. There is, for example, Bhakti Yoga, which is to me what Christians refer to as the first "Greatest Commandment".

Surely you're not addressing this to me personally, but rather to all readers of this thread.

 

[lovemuffin]

My opinion is roughly that as the world gets smaller cross-cultural pollination of this sort is inevitable, and I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's a rather good thing. At the same time, I'm sympathetic to Vinayaka and Poeticus expressing that Yoga is very much a Hindu practice and tradition. Maybe it's not a question of "owning" yoga but it's not surprising if people are sensitive to what they perceive as misappropriation of something that is such a central part of their culture. It's not unreasonable to me to point out that saying "Yoga isn't Hindu" seems like a mischaracterization, even if what is meant is that the word "Yoga" as its used in the US has come to refer to something that is distinct from Hinduism in many ways.