SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
You have serious case of self-denial. All you can do is quote the Bible.
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Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection
- Thread starter SeekingAllTruth
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SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
Sad.
ElishaElijah
Return
Did your experts know Peter and the apostles? When did they do their study? Are they believers? Do they know God? No. Do you even consider that the supposed scholars and experts of Jesus day committed murder of the King of Kings? Quote the Bible, yes because they were eyewitnesses and wrote down what happened and the things God told them. I can imagine someone 1800 years from now trying to determine if I wrote the letters to my wife or not and you taking their opinions as fact.
SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
Elijah, I could quote you a hundred...thousand...100,000 reputable sources saying there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection and you'd still insist there were. You know what we call that?
ElishaElijah
Return
Start quoting your reputable sources cause the ones on Wikipedia are not, they are from this generation and their own opinions. Other experts disagree with them. Also, when a person is born again the Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of Scripture so your little monkey meme is a testament to your own spiritual blindness, spiritually dead and deaf. Where is Jesus? In Heaven ready to return, not in the grave. The true account is written and you’ll know soon enough.
SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not going to quote 100 sources. It'd be a waste of time and energy with you. End of discussion.
ElishaElijah
Return
You said 100,000
I am sorry that I did Not make myself clear to you.
At John 20:17; John 20:26-27 the resurrected spirit-body Jesus used was a different materialized body in verse 27 for the sake of doubting Thomas.
Please notice at John 20:14-15 that the materialized Jesus was Not using the same materialized body for Mary that he used for doubting Thomas.
The body that Jesus appeared to Mary looked as if he was a caretaker gardener to Mary's eyes in verse 15.
Mary would Not have thought Jesus was a gardener if he appeared with those wounds.
After appearing to Mary it was eight(8) days later (verse 26) that Jesus appeared to Thomas.
So, there were No identical-wound bodies, just the one time, and that was to help doubting Thomas.
No wounds found at Luke 24:13-43 ________
I wonder which verse you have in mind that the disciples were prevented from recognizing resurrected Jesus_____
Because Jesus was Not in his wounded body shows Jesus had a spirit-body resurrection.
As Jesus' followers leave Jerusalem for Emmaus, it was as they walked that a stranger met them.-Luke 24:17-19.
Angels appeared to the women at Luke 24:24
Resurrected Jesus responds to the disciples thinking at Luke 24:25-26
When Jesus prays then they recognize him but notice then Jesus disappears in front of their eyes - Luke 24:29-31
Jesus appears to Simon at Luke 24:34.
Because of fear of the Jews, Jesus' followers were in a locked room.
When Jesus appears in that shut room if he had his old wounded body they would have not imagined they were seeing a spirit - Luke 24:36-37.
So, to prove he is No mere apparition Jesus uses a fleshly materialized body.
Remember doubting Thomas was Not at the earlier meeting, but at the meeting eight (8) days later.
If a physical body then the soldier guards would have seen Jesus.
They saw No Jesus come out of the tomb.
Mary mistook resurrected Jesus for a gardener. A wounded Jesus would have been recognized.
Jesus pictured the sacrificed lamb at Passover. No lamb bodies left at Passovers.
Besides only a spirit body could return or go to heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:50.
Jesus said his 'sheep' would hear his voice.
In Noah's Day how many survived _______ I find less than 2/3's.
Jesus said his day would be like Noah's Day - Matthew 24:37.
So, the interest in Not in numbers, Not in quantity, but in: quality.
Or, as Jesus said MANY would come 'in his name' but prove false - Matthew 7:21-23
ElishaElijah
Return
For everyone saying the Bible isn’t a good enough account that the apostles recorded and can’t confirm they were eyewitnesses. Where else would they have written their testimonies and to who? They lived and learned from Jesus for 3 years and saw Him 40 days after He rose, they saw Him go to Heaven. They wrote to believers and to the churches who believed the message, were born again and also experienced being filled with the Holy Spirit just as it is today. It’s not an empty promise, God is active today.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am not all for it because I think it is a fantasy. Do you think it is good for people to believe in fantasies?
What is the greatest harm in holding a religious belief that is false?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thankfully, not all Christians still believe in the myth, now that we are a modern literate society.
What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death
“Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1
They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.”
http://www.religioustolerance.org/resur_lt.htm
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Facts.Notice I didn't say, "I refuse to" The point is I cannot believe in it.
I watched a debate on the resurrection this morning. At some point, Matt Dillahunty came out and asked "Do you have anything outside the Bible to support the resurrection." Jonathan McLatchie answered. "NO."
That's it in a nutshell. All apologists--Craig, Licona, Horn, Woods, et al use nothing but the Bible to lay out their "evidence" Jesus rose. Claim: the apostles saw something that convinced them. Fact: There is no secular evidence anywhere outside the Bible that mentions the apostles. Claim: the empty tomb. Fact we have no empty tomb. Claim: the apostles were willing to die for their belief. Fact: we have nothing inside and outside the Bible that mentions what most of the apostles subsequently did or how they died. Claim: There were eyewitnesses. Fact: Nobody outside the Bible recorded a single thing about seeing Jesus after he was crucified.
Outrageous claim:
The historical evidence shows that: the grave was empty; the grave clothes were neatly left behind; the stone enclosing the tomb was rolled away; the body of Jesus was never found.
10 Concise Pieces of Evidence for the Resurrection - The Gospel Coalition | Canada
WHAT historical evidence????????
I mean in the link above it gets much MUCH worse than that.
Fact: take away the Bible and any "proof" for Jesus' resurrection collapses.
O humans as humans know self human by bio medical human advice.
Warned and taught human bio medical reasoning correct.
O earth is a planet as one God mass for any form in theism sciences.
As it exists first to allow humans to stand on it.
We don't know what is inside a planet.
We live seeing human life and death standing on top of a planet.
Sink holes open by science machine converting causes. Gases escape as a spirit out of earths mass.
The event seen. As we stand on top of the planet.
What was seen.
A human says I saw the man human.image in the atmosphere when sink holes opened. Tombs.
I did see in modern times also as modern machine caused sink holes to open in new experiments.
Seen human images emerge in our heavens. After I saw wisping smoke first.
Wisping smoke not any human.
Burning gas not any human.
Cooled. Image of man who caused it as a designer caused outcome then emerged. Spirit image formed. Moved by floating then disappeared.
Saw it.
Said to myself in brain prickling effect must have been same sort of outcome humans saw before.
I was living healthily first.
Was irradiated gas burnt hurt. My life spirit protection water oxygen caused the attack when removed allowed the attack. I could not breathe properly.
Notice you have to be breathing to know when it was changed.
Then it came back. My water oxygen protection. I could breathe again.
Information human said ice newly born end of year associated to ice itself as a saving had gone. Ice melted replaced spirit. Life was saved. Spirit of human life water oxygenated.
Nothing to do with science thesis changing gases.
A human living.
A human living not as my lying designer machine owner controller human brother.
He does not get attacked.
Innocent life got attacked.
Human reason he is self destructive and his choices personal and should be karmic. Not my choice. Not my karma.
Karmic teaching self chooses wrong normally gets hurt theirself as a life lesson is personal.
Should be my brother's. He should have instant attack. To claim I learn in experimenting.
Human reasoning in every comment as you lived.
Ignored human suffering as advice as he thinks he is safe. Reason about a human teaching of karma.
SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
You know, Trailblazer, for me it's a difficult call. Life is hard enough without having something to believe in. Since we can't prove any of this stuff it boils down to how a person's beliefs help them to get through a pretty miserable life. Beliefs in something better are powerful motivators to go on.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, that excuse will not be accepted by God, if the Bible had been the only scripture they were familiar with at the point of death.
SeekingAllTruth
Well-Known Member
If I told you I shot 18 holes in one on the golf course today would you believe me? if I said I could produce 4 witnesses who would swear to it would you believe me then? If i said in addition, 500 people on the course saw me do this would you then believe me? But if you asked me for their names and I said I couldn't produce them, what then? Would you still believe me? How's this any different from Christianity's claims?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What is the greatest harm in holding a religious belief that is false?
Answer: You will never know what the truth is.
So, if people believe in fantasies such as Jesus rising from the dead and that Jesus is the Only Way, and that Jesus is going to return in the clouds, how can they ever know the truth? Once a person is set in their beliefs, if they are sure they are true they are not going to search for truth. Just look at the Christians in this forum, do you see any who are open to any other religion?
Of course you could say the same thing about me if there had been any "new" religions revealed since the Baha'i Faith that I was unwilling to look at.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The thing is that you do not have to buy everything in the store, you can just pick what you need and go to the cash register and check out. You do not have to buy that Jesus was the son of god who died for our sins and then he rose from the dead and walked around town. The entire NT is not about that story. Besides that, of the NT was interpreted correctly, all they false beliefs about Jesus would go right out the window.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Some people who believe in God believe it, but not all do.
Even if God has the power to resurrect people, why would He? God does not do everything He has the power to do.
Think about why God would want to raise a physical body from the grave. What would that accomplish? It makes much more sense that men wrote stories hoping people would believe them so they could promote Christianity.
There was a reason for the cross sacrifice, it accomplished something.
There was no reason for the resurrection because it accomplished nothing except to gain adherents to Christianity by making them believe that they too would be resurrected on a body like Jesus had; but we did not need the resurrection of Jesus to know that since Paul explained what will happen to all of us when we die, and it has nothing to do with Jesus rising from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
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