Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

[F1fan]

Because we do know who they are, at least some, the evidence is their changed life and ours. It’s not an empty promise that God gives believers. He gives the Holy Spirit, power to live a godly life free from the power that sin and death has over people. So in your example God’s grace would enable believers the ability to shoot 18 hole in ones on the golf course.

Well that is very optimistic. I'd be impressed if we saw Christians be exceptionally moral and decent people that rises above the norm. But to be honest, we don't. In fact we have a of examples of Christians being highly immoral and even criminal. For example the Confederate South were Baptists, yet they tried to justify slavery through the Bible. The German citizens of the late 30's and the early 40's who cooperated in the extermination of the Jews were largely Catholic and Lutheran.

If these people go about their lives assuming they have special favors from God while they have beliefs that are against basic human decency, something has failed with the theology.

 

[sojourner]

When dealing with anti-Christs people need to remember that the apostles would have had understudies do their writing as was the custom in that age.

There’s no evidence the original apostles wrote anything— or dictated anything. They lived in an oral transmission culture.

 

[sojourner]

Well that is very optimistic. I'd be impressed if we saw Christians be exceptionally moral and decent people that rises above the norm. But to be honest, we don't. In fact we have a of examples of Christians being highly immoral and even criminal. For example the Confederate South were Baptists, yet they tried to justify slavery through the Bible. The German citizens of the late 30's and the early 40's who cooperated in the extermination of the Jews were largely Catholic and Lutheran.

If these people go about their lives assuming they have special favors from God while they have beliefs that are against basic human decency, something has failed with the theology.

I believe a shift occurred from an experiential faith to a doctrinal faith.

 

[sojourner]

That’s where you’re wrong, He did and He wrote it down for all to see, everyone is without excuse. It’s plain to see and the only reason people don’t come to Christ is in John 3. There will be weeping and knashing of teeth because of human beings folly of trying to blame God, when it will be shown how evil men are and the lengths God went to save them.

God wrote nothing.

 

[sojourner]

No secular Biblical scholar accepts the Bible as historic proof of Jesus.

Did historical Jesus really exist? The evidence just doesn’t add up.
There are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...xist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/

I think that’s a little dogmatic. Many scholars accept the biblical writings as historic evidence for the existence of Jesus. But that’s not the same as proof. And, most believe there’s a disconnect between the historic Jesus and the mythic Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

Read Wikipedia and weep? Lol But now your comments are showing your original post was disingenuous. I have to laugh when I hear the “scholar” references.

No surprise that you discount scholarship. Most biblical literalists do.

 

[sojourner]

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Just because someone claims to be a scholar doesn’t mean much, especially when they are false teachers.

I don’t think you’re in any position of authority to make that determination.

 

[sojourner]

II peter is a forgery. Peter, if he existed, did not write that.

Although 2 Peter internally purports to be a work of the apostle, most biblical scholars have concluded that Peter is not the author, and instead consider the epistle pseudepigraphical.

Authorship of the Petrine epistles - Wikipedia

I quote scholarship. You just quote forged documents.

The majority of New Testament scholars agree that the Gospels do NOT contain eyewitness accounts;

Careful — there’s a difference between a forgery and a pseudepigraphical document.

 

[sojourner]

Do you even believe that God exists at all????

What has this to do with the post?

 

[sojourner]

Too funny bro, do you even know what books of the Bible are considered the Gospels?

If you’re authority of whether or not Scripture is accurate is coming from Wikipedia it explains why you’re confused.

The Wikipedia article is essentially congruent with current scholarship.

 

[sojourner]

You didn’t prove anything except quoting an opinion piece, read your own stuff.

I’ve yet to see you provide any bona fide scholarship to back your opinions. I wouldn’t throw too many rocks...

 

[sojourner]

Did your experts know Peter and the apostles? When did they do their study? Are they believers? Do they know God? No. Do you even consider that the supposed scholars and experts of Jesus day committed murder of the King of Kings? Quote the Bible, yes because they were eyewitnesses and wrote down what happened and the things God told them. I can imagine someone 1800 years from now trying to determine if I wrote the letters to my wife or not and you taking their opinions as fact.

None of this rebuttal matters. None of it represents any of the criteria for scholarship. None of the NT writers were eyewitnesses.

 

[sojourner]

Start quoting your reputable sources cause the ones on Wikipedia are not, they are from this generation and their own opinions. Other experts disagree with them. Also, when a person is born again the Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of Scripture so your little monkey meme is a testament to your own spiritual blindness, spiritually dead and deaf. Where is Jesus? In Heaven ready to return, not in the grave. The true account is written and you’ll know soon enough.

Sounds awfully more like a faith statement than a fact statement. That’s fine, but none of it is compelling in this case.

 

[sojourner]

I wonder which verse you have in mind that the disciples were prevented from recognizing resurrected Jesus_____
Because Jesus was Not in his wounded body shows Jesus had a spirit-body resurrection.
As Jesus' followers leave Jerusalem for Emmaus, it was as they walked that a stranger met them.-Luke 24:17-19.
Angels appeared to the women at Luke 24:24
Resurrected Jesus responds to the disciples thinking at Luke 24:25-26
When Jesus prays then they recognize him but notice then Jesus disappears in front of their eyes - Luke 24:29-31
Jesus appears to Simon at Luke 24:34.
Because of fear of the Jews, Jesus' followers were in a locked room.
When Jesus appears in that shut room if he had his old wounded body they would have not imagined they were seeing a spirit - Luke 24:36-37.
So, to prove he is No mere apparition Jesus uses a fleshly materialized body.
Remember doubting Thomas was Not at the earlier meeting, but at the meeting eight (8) days later.

If a physical body then the soldier guards would have seen Jesus.
They saw No Jesus come out of the tomb.
Mary mistook resurrected Jesus for a gardener. A wounded Jesus would have been recognized.
Jesus pictured the sacrificed lamb at Passover. No lamb bodies left at Passovers.
Besides only a spirit body could return or go to heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:50.

Except that Jesus’ body was hungry, and it did, in fact, show wounds from crucifixion.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Careful — there’s a difference between a forgery and a pseudepigraphical document.

You;'re right. I couldn't spell pseudoephigraphical. See what I mean?

 

[sojourner]

For everyone saying the Bible isn’t a good enough account that the apostles recorded and can’t confirm they were eyewitnesses. Where else would they have written their testimonies and to who? They lived and learned from Jesus for 3 years and saw Him 40 days after He rose, they saw Him go to Heaven. They wrote to believers and to the churches who believed the message, were born again and also experienced being filled with the Holy Spirit just as it is today. It’s not an empty promise, God is active today.

No. They didn’t. Each Gospel was written by a non-original apostle. And the Synoptics were most likely told and written down later.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Show us what the apostles wrote about Jesus. Historians cannot even prove the apostles existed.

Notice I never heard back from Huguenot.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Well that is very optimistic. I'd be impressed if we saw Christians be exceptionally moral and decent people that rises above the norm. But to be honest, we don't. In fact we have a of examples of Christians being highly immoral and even criminal. For example the Confederate South were Baptists, yet they tried to justify slavery through the Bible. The German citizens of the late 30's and the early 40's who cooperated in the extermination of the Jews were largely Catholic and Lutheran.

If these people go about their lives assuming they have special favors from God while they have beliefs that are against basic human decency, something has failed with the theology.

“So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-26‬ ‭NIV‬‬
Being a believer isn’t about theology but a new nature where you walk in the Spirit and not according to the flesh. If a person doesn’t have this change/born again then they aren’t a believer. You can say you’re a Christian all day long but you aren’t until you’re born again.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I think that’s a little dogmatic. Many scholars accept the biblical writings as historic evidence for the existence of Jesus. But that’s not the same as proof. And, most believe there’s a disconnect between the historic Jesus and the mythic Jesus.

Yeah, scholars use the abundant manuscripts that mention a Jesus to determine there was somebody behind the gospel character. Remember, though there were thousands of Yeshuas in Palestine at that time. Which one was the real one?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I’ve yet to see you provide any bona fide scholarship to back your opinions. I wouldn’t throw too many rocks...

I will speak for what I’ve experienced and what God has shown me personally. What He has done in my life and the reason I’m a believer has nothing to do with what a scholar or anyone else thinks. I’ve tested the Word of God for myself and found it true and reliable. God has proven faithful to me. It’s clear to me, but as far as what people communicate on these forums about what the Bible teaches, Gods character, how to tell a believer from a non believer or pretender, a lot of false information and ignorance. This scripture sums it up as far as the scholars people trust:
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:18-25‬ ‭NIV‬‬