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Featured Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Apr 25, 2021.

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  1. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Notice I didn't say, "I refuse to" The point is I cannot believe in it.

    I watched a debate on the resurrection this morning. At some point, Matt Dillahunty came out and asked "Do you have anything outside the Bible to support the resurrection." Jonathan McLatchie answered. "NO."

    That's it in a nutshell. All apologists--Craig, Licona, Horn, Woods, et al use nothing but the Bible to lay out their "evidence" Jesus rose. Claim: the apostles saw something that convinced them. Fact: There is no secular evidence anywhere outside the Bible that mentions the apostles. Claim: the empty tomb. Fact we have no empty tomb. Claim: the apostles were willing to die for their belief. Fact: we have nothing inside and outside the Bible that mentions what most of the apostles subsequently did or how they died. Claim: There were eyewitnesses. Fact: Nobody outside the Bible recorded a single thing about seeing Jesus after he was crucified.

    Outrageous claim:

    The historical evidence shows that: the grave was empty; the grave clothes were neatly left behind; the stone enclosing the tomb was rolled away; the body of Jesus was never found.

    10 Concise Pieces of Evidence for the Resurrection - The Gospel Coalition | Canada

    WHAT historical evidence????????
    [​IMG]

    I mean in the link above it gets much MUCH worse than that.

    Fact: take away the Bible and any "proof" for Jesus' resurrection collapses.
     
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  2. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus άντρας των αστεριών

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    An 'agnostic deist' does not believe in the Resurrection of Jesus? :eek:
     
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  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Straw argument. Firstly, they could be misrepresenting Christianity, and you wouldn't know it. Secondly the resurrection is not a matter of proofs, and many posters and famous Christians have repeated this. The reason not to believe, in this case, in the resurrection is that they are trying to argue you into it. People may learn of the resurrection from parents. They may choose to believe it for the sake of joining the church. Proofs are someone's attempt to control you.



    The people who'd want you to believe because of proofs would only want it, because then they would have control of you. This may not be malicious. Perhaps they think they are helping you by taking control of your decision process. Its still an effort to control you, to assert. I think it would be a sin to believe in the resurrection because of such an argument, and I'm pretty sure I could produce quotes from scripture authors about it.
     
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  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    I'm more confused at no. 2:

    Pagan and Jewish writers report that Christians believed Jesus rose from the dead.
    How is that proof..?
     
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  5. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    But can you believe that 'eternity is in your heart' because for every day we can think of we can think of a next day.
    Isaac Newton is known for the falling apple, but apparently more concerned about looking for the elixir of life.
    Looking over history we see a universal search for the elixir of life ( fountain of youth, etc.).
    I find this because we have ' eternity built into us ' that is why the desire for such an elixir of life.
    To me, this takes us back to Genesis 2:15-17 that we could continue to live as long as we didn't break God's Law.
    That was God's guarantee of everlasting life if we keep His Law.
    Fallen Adam put us on death row, so to speak, thus we all die.
    Since all die that could be why people think there could be No ' outside ' chance of returning to life (Resurrection)
    Since we know we can't resurrect oneself or another, then the only hope is help from the ' outside '.
    This is where Jesus dying a hero's death for us makes it possible to live again.
    Since only the Bible is God's written gift to us, then there is No other place for real hope of living again.
    Usually healthy people don't want to tell you 'the day they want to die' shows people want to live.
    Healthy people don't refuse to want to live, or to go on living even if they can't find that elixir of life.
    If 'eternity' was Not in our hearts, then the Resurrection Hope would Not be in us.
    So, the 'last invitation' in which to respond is found at Revelation 22:17 which circles us right back to Genesis and its 1st prophecy of Genesis 3:15 about a promised 'seed' (Messiah) to rescue us from enemy death.
    P.S. Can you believe there will be a time when humanity will be rescued from enemy death ___________
     
  7. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Assuming Jesus existed and was really crucified, I just think strings were pulled to get him down early so he could recover for a few days and then flee up into the mountains (I mean, "Heaven").
     
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  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I think you missed the point that Jesus was Not resurrected back to his old physical body, but his God resurrected Jesus back to his former pre-human heavenly spirit body.
    This is why after his resurrection Jesus used different materialized bodies.
    People did Not recognize the resurrected Jesus until he revealed himself to them - see Luke 24:13-43
     
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  9. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    That is much more likely than trying to convince people with the hash apologists sling at us that he rose.
     
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  10. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    If this utopian vision of the future gives a person comfort and solace in the midst of adversity then I am all for using it to get through tough times.
     
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  11. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    It's true. They want us to believe Jesus rose because therein lies the tool to control your life through them as Jesus' supposed representatives on earth. They'll use it as a way to extract money from you through tithes and put a guilt trip on you for not contributing to their supposed efforts to spread the gospel of salvation (HA!) when in reality they are using your money to buy a fleet of Lear jets for themselves and their family to take luxury trips around the world ostensibly to preach Jesus. Don't fall for it, folks.
     
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  12. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Surprised? ;)
     
  13. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    He’s the only living being that holds resurrection in his hands. Thank god.
    Gods good.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There is another explanation. Like most crucified people he was simply left up to rot. That is not a pretty picture but that what was usually done with people that underwent Roman crucifixion. Romans were not the only ones to use crucifixion. Many societies did, including the Jews at times. Now the Jews very well could have taken their victims down. That would go along with their religion, but the Romans simply would not do that. Part of the punishment was the horror of people walking by the body of their loved ones every day.

    If you ever followed what happened after the death of Elvis you would be surprised at how many myths arose after he died. And that was with a modern literate society that had access to reliable sources. Think how quickly a myth could arise when those resources were not available.
     
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  15. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Look at what's happening in India right now and then tell me God is good. :rolleyes:
     
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  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I believe the spirit rises from the body
    right after the last breath

    if not .....it follows the body
    in the box
    into the grave
    and eternal darkness is physically real

    as for the Carpenter......and everything else of Spirit
    no proof is offered

    if He rose from the dead .....body and all
    He took it with Him
    that we have not proof

    all we can do is think about it
     
  17. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the apologists claim there's more proof for Jesus' resurrection than there is for Julius Caesar. Someone in that crowd clearly is not hearing your message.
     
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  18. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Understandable, as it's hard for us humans to believe others. Obviously, more hard to believe coming back to life after having been 'killed':D

    On the other hand, once you have experienced something like that, it will be hard not to believe it. That's how human mind seems to work. Nothing to be worried about

    I don't believe many stories I hear people tell today, I rather see it before stamping it 'belief'.

    But I have no doubt whatsoever about that particular part "resurrection" :D, other parts I find hard to believe e.g. whales swallowing a fisherman, w/o being aware of it

    The parts I don't believe, I label as anekdote. Dutch fishermen are known for their tales, in which fishes tend to grow tenfold before 'coming home'. I see no reason why these Middle Eastern fisherman would act any differently :D. Problem solved for me, until proven wrong, I don't think about it again
     
    #18 stvdv, Apr 26, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  19. Jimmy

    Jimmy Well-Known Member

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    God is good
    Life is short
    You want people hopeless and to give up?
    Apparently we have different gods
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Does disbelief in God makes people hopeless? I am a strong atheist and have never given up against odds. They are part of life.
     
    #20 Aupmanyav, Apr 26, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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