Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[Ben Masada]

Exodus 19:3
And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

+++Ben: - This House of Jacob above is the same as Israel, all the 12 Tribes, which
were concomitantly addressed to as either House of Jacob or Israel. What Isaiah refers to in 48:1 is what started after the return from exile in Babylon. "The House of Jacob called by the name Israel from the stock of Judah." The House of Jacob today, or the new Israel is from the stock of Judah. Why stock? Because Judah is the foundation of the House. The walls consist also of many from the other Tribes who joined back and many former Gentiles who converted and still do.

Exodus was long before Isaiah and their already was a house of Jacob at that time. And a children of Israel

Ben you claimed there are no more tribes. Do you think we are in the last days?

+++Ben: - Last days of what? We are always in the last days of a generation and beginning of another. There are no more Tribes. The tribal system is over. Now,
there is just one people: The Jewish People.

Genesis 49:1-2
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. [2] Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.

+++Ben: - In the last days of the children of Jacob, and not in the last days of whatever you have in mind. This is Christian Apocalypse thought. We are talking Jewish here.

If you go on to read Genesis 49 the Word tells us what will happen to each and every tribe concerning the last days

+++Ben: - Yes I know, the last days of the children of Jacob. How about the grandchildren, the great-gran-children, and so forth? Please, give me a break!

Ben

 

[BrasenWall]

OK Benny
Ill shut up

Here them trumpets

 

[mikmik]

I guess it could be done, but i seriously think that it may be an idol of their heart, believe me i came out of that kind of babylon. I was sabbath keeper, so i know what an idol of the heart it makes on one.

I remember my old pastor parroting about keeping the sabbath and that we were the true people of God because we keep the sabbath. I remember someone asked him what is the one thing that someone must do to come to God--He answered keep the sabbath, not Jesus (of course now that i know the truth about free will no one can come to God on their own). He preached the sabbath the sabbath the sabbath but rarely ever said anything of Jesus. He really made everyone of his congregation including me, have the sabbath as an idol of the heart and we were more righteous than those who didnt keep it.

Anything can be made into an idol in one's heart. If you had a bad experience with a specific church and pastor, that's really too bad. But that doesn't make it the same experience for everyone. The Sabbath is an important part of being a Christian for me, but only one of many. I could go to the mat defending all sorts of other things that are not idols in my heart, but small parts of the whole as well, and none of them have this connection to babylon that you speak of. But this topic is the Sabbath, so we are focused on it here.

mik

 

[Ben Masada]

Anything can be made into an idol in one's heart. If you had a bad experience with a specific church and pastor, that's really too bad. But that doesn't make it the same experience for everyone. The Sabbath is an important part of being a Christian for me, but only one of many. I could go to the mat defending all sorts of other things that are not idols in my heart, but small parts of the whole as well, and none of them have this connection to babylon that you speak of. But this topic is the Sabbath, so we are focused on it here.

mik

++++++++++++++++++++

Anything, as you have said above, can be made into an idol in one's heart, even a
dead man almost two thousand years old.

Ben :sorry1:

 

[gnostic]

It approaching 1000 posts here.

I've forgotten what the was the original question about!!!

:faint:

 

[Ben Masada]

It approaching 1000 posts here.

I've forgotten what the was the original question about!!!

:faint:

+++++++++++++++++++

The original question could have been solved in the first reply if I had been here. The answer is that Christians are under no obligation to observe the Sabbath on the seventh day. It's true that the commandment was given at the time the Edenic Covenant was established, meaning that it was for all Mankind, but when it was repeated in the Sinaitic Covenant, it became obsolete for the Gentiles. Then, Paul, the founder of Christianity used of his power to make it optional for Christians to choose any day or even no day at all. (Rom. 14:5) Besides, the Gentiles' obligation is restricted to the Noahite laws, and the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy doesn't figure in there.

Ben:clap

 

[Scuba Pete]

+++++++++++++++++++

The original question could have been solved in the first reply if I had been here.

Perhaps the Apostles, and Paul in particular should have just written "What ever Ben believes is truth."

As it is, I disagree with Ben on several issues here, and the scriptures seem to disagree with him as well.

The Christian Law of Love is a return to Eden spiritually. It is the only law we are given to follow under the New Covenant. All the other laws were nailed to the cross, and were not resurrected with Jesus.

Unfortunately, many don't understand the true FREEDOM we have in Jesus, and have devoted their lives to mindlessly following (and devising) rule after rule. They create convolution after convolution about who created what/when/why to try and justify their reliance on human traditions and miss the singularly important edict: All we need is love!

 

[Ben Masada]

Perhaps the Apostles, and Paul in particular should have just written "What ever Ben believes is truth."

As it is, I disagree with Ben on several issues here, and the scriptures seem to disagree with him as well.

The Christian Law of Love is a return to Eden spiritually. It is the only law we are given to follow under the New Covenant. All the other laws were nailed to the cross, and were not resurrected with Jesus.

Unfortunately, many don't understand the true FREEDOM we have in Jesus, and have devoted their lives to mindlessly following (and devising) rule after rule. They create convolution after convolution about who created what/when/why to try and justify their reliance on human traditions and miss the singularly important edict: All we need is love!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, all we need is love, isn't it? I can relate to that. But please spare me the Christian love of a return to Eden. Throughout our History the Christian love has rather made our return to the dust by the thousands.

I can relate also to the fact that you disagree with me, but the Scriptures... it depends on how you view them, which brings the point back to your personal disagreement with me.

Except for Paul, I have no problem with the Apostles of Jesus. In fact, if I had lived in the First Century, I would be a Nazarene.

What "New Covenant" are you talking about, the one Paul established with Christians? Because the only New Covenant the Bible mentions was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one people. (Jer. 31:31)

Interesting that all the other laws still remain, meaning that this "cross-nailing" has been proved to be empty Pauline rhetoric. Then, about the resurrection, proof that it was fabricated by Paul is the fact that his own Apostles considered it an idle tale.
(Luke 24:11)

What is there in the freedom you have with Jesus to understand, freedom to sin without having to be punished for? Also pure Pauline rhetoric.

Ben

 

[AK4]

Perhaps the Apostles, and Paul in particular should have just written "What ever Ben believes is truth."

As it is, I disagree with Ben on several issues here, and the scriptures seem to disagree with him as well.

The Christian Law of Love is a return to Eden spiritually. It is the only law we are given to follow under the New Covenant. All the other laws were nailed to the cross, and were not resurrected with Jesus.

Unfortunately, many don't understand the true FREEDOM we have in Jesus, and have devoted their lives to mindlessly following (and devising) rule after rule. They create convolution after convolution about who created what/when/why to try and justify their reliance on human traditions and miss the singularly important edict: All we need is love!

I agree with you but if love Him you will follow His commandments.

Joh 14:15 - "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

But how to do you do this? You worship Him in spirit and truth.

Joh 4:23 - Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
You follow the ten commandments spiritually. You follow "thou shall not covet" by "gouging your eye out or cutting off your hand". Do you do this literally? NO. Well do follow the fourth commandment literally then? Okay then.

You follow the first four commandments by "loving God with all heart and all your mind and all your soul" daily not just one day of the week. You follow the last four commandments by "loving your neighbor as yourself" which those last four commandments are really summed up in the commandment "thou shall not covet".

So what is love. Following His commandments spiritually. These are the works that all will be judged on and rewarded on.

 

[Ben Masada]

I agree with you but if love Him you will follow His commandments.

+++Ben: - Whose commandments? If you are talking about Jesus, they must be God's
Law, since it is what Jesus came to confirm to the letter.

Joh 14:15 - "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

+++Ben: - Jesus did not command anything beyond what he confirmed in Matthew 5:17-19. So to love Jesus one must obey the commandments of God and the faith
of Jesus which was Judaism, according to Revelation 14:12.

But how to do you do this? You worship Him in spirit and truth.

+++Ben: - Yes, because God is Spirit and incorporeal. (John 4:24) And to do it in truth, we must establish what is the truth, which goes back to the Law which is the Word of God. (Psalm 119)

Joh 4:23 - Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

+++Ben: - And who are they, I mean, those worshipers whom the Father seeks? At the well of Jacob, two peoples were in a dialog. The Jews represented by Jesus, and
the Gentiles represented by the Samaritan woman. The Jews told the Gentiles: "You worship what you do not understand; while we understand what we worship. Do you know why? Because salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22) It means that the Jews get saved by saving others; and Gentiles get saved by letting themselves be saved.

You follow the ten commandments spiritually. You follow "thou shall not covet" by "gouging your eye out or cutting off your hand". Do you do this literally? NO. Well do follow the fourth commandment literally then? Okay then.

+++Ben: - Good point this one AK4! You have built an almost paradox. We don't do those things literally with regards to "thou shall not covet." They are metaphorical.
But with the fourth commandment you go literal? Paul understood that problem by releasing the shoulders of the Gentiles from that obligation by presenting the option to choose any day or even no day at all, as long as we find peace in our conscience by doing so. (Rom. 14:5) That was a wise move. I can't believe I would find myself cheering Paul on this one. Therefore, the Shabbat as a fixed thing on the seventh day has become a Jewish ceremonial arrangement; and to remain so as a sign like the circumcision between God and the Jews. (Ezek. 20:12,20)

You follow the first four commandments by "loving God with all heart and all your mind and all your soul" daily not just one day of the week. You follow the last four commandments by "loving your neighbor as yourself" which those last four commandments are really summed up in the commandment "thou shall not covet".

+++Ben: - What difference does it make if the reason why we obey is love or duty, only as long as we obey the Law? Think it through!

So what is love. Following His commandments spiritually. These are the works that all will be judged on and rewarded on.

+++Ben: - Now, that's what I call destruction of the whole beauty of the discussion above. So, what's love. It definitely is not to obey the commandments in the hope of
a positive judgment or with an eye in a good reward. Love is to obey without condition.

Ben

 

[AK4]

+++Ben: - Whose commandments? If you are talking about Jesus, they must be God's
Law, since it is what Jesus came to confirm to the letter.

No Jesus came to let everyone know about the Father and to fufill the prophesies of the OT, not what you want to call your collective messiah.

+++Ben: - Jesus did not command anything beyond what he confirmed in Matthew 5:17-19. So to love Jesus one must obey the commandments of God and the faith
of Jesus which was Judaism, according to Revelation 14:12.

Heck by your logic of picking and choosing which verses in a book you want to believe even atheists can make up their own collective messiah.

+++Ben: - Yes, because God is Spirit and incorporeal. (John 4:24) And to do it in truth, we must establish what is the truth, which goes back to the Law which is the Word of God. (Psalm 119)

Ahhhh. It reminds of the serpent in Genesis---he covered his lie with some truth---this is exactly what you do. Even satan knows scripture.

+++Ben: - And who are they, I mean, those worshipers whom the Father seeks? At the well of Jacob, two peoples were in a dialog. The Jews represented by Jesus, and
the Gentiles represented by the Samaritan woman. The Jews told the Gentiles: "You worship what you do not understand; while we understand what we worship. Do you know why? Because salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22) It means that the Jews get saved by saving others; and Gentiles get saved by letting themselves be saved

ROFL:biglaugh::biglaugh:That was a good one, the Jews only get saved by saving others. Who needs God then?

You follow the ten commandments spiritually. You follow "thou shall not covet" by "gouging your eye out or cutting off your hand". Do you do this literally? NO. Well do follow the fourth commandment literally then? Okay then.

+++Ben: - Good point this one AK4! You have built an almost paradox. We don't do those things literally with regards to "thou shall not covet." They are metaphorical.
But with the fourth commandment you go literal? Paul understood that problem by releasing the shoulders of the Gentiles from that obligation by presenting the option to choose any day or even no day at all, as long as we find peace in our conscience by doing so. (Rom. 14:5) That was a wise move. I can't believe I would find myself cheering Paul on this one. Therefore, the Shabbat as a fixed thing on the seventh day has become a Jewish ceremonial arrangement; and to remain so as a sign like the circumcision between God and the Jews. (Ezek. 20:12,20)

It was a sarcastic question. No you dont follow the fourth commandment literally you do it in spirit just like the rest of them. You know some of the other wise moves you claim that was from Paul and his cronies all those parables and teachings from Jesus fit all perfectly with ALL the rest of scripture in the OT and NT. Man, back in those days they got all these guys to write letters and never made a contradiction to what was in the OT or what the other guy was writing and we cant even get two professors not to contradict each other these days. Genius absolute genius Paul was.

Oh its almost mandatory for all male babies to get circumsided in the US so thanks to this physical circumcision most of the people in the US will be saved because of this--even those who dont believe in God--(Well they will be saved eventually but not because of what you believe)

+++Ben: - What difference does it make if the reason why we obey is love or duty, only as long as we obey the Law? Think it through!

:run:Whoa slow down Ben.... you are starting to sound like Paul!!

Ro 12:1 - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And i know you dont want to do that now do you? :foot::foot: I will help you get that boot out if you ask me nicely.

+++Ben: - Now, that's what I call destruction of the whole beauty of the discussion above. So, what's love. It definitely is not to obey the commandments in the hope of
a positive judgment or with an eye in a good reward. Love is to obey without condition.

Oh really.. then you must not have any kids because one of the ways they show their love to you is by doing what you tell them to do, with the possiblity also of an reward. For this Love thing may be way over your head...You quote a verse from Revelations so once again your this has happened to you:foot::foot: so now take away those verses where Jesus is saying that some will be rewarded for obey His commands

:ko:

 

[Ben Masada]

No Jesus came to let everyone know about the Father and to fufill the prophesies of the OT, not what you want to call your collective messiah.

+++Ben: - That Jesus came to let everyone know about the Father is true but as one of his People, not on an individual basis. "The Lord shows His glory through Israel."
(Isa. 44:23)

Heck by your logic of picking and choosing which verses in a book you want to believe even atheists can make up their own collective messiah.

+++Ben: - At least, what I do makes a lot of sense. It means I can think.

Ahhhh. It reminds of the serpent in Genesis---he covered his lie with some truth---this is exactly what you do. Even satan knows scripture.

+++Ben: - Are you trying to tell me that the serpent lied? It's only obvious that you cannot think. The serpent simply explained to Eve what she had misunderstood. It did not lie. Eve thought that if they ate from that tree they would physically die, and that's not true. The serpent let her know that she had misunderstood God's words. Proof of it is that when they ate of that tree nobody died. So, what happened then? Their eyes were opened to distinguish good from evil. Isn't it exactly what the serpent had said? Now, go and review the account of the "fall." It's in Genesis 3:1-7. As you can see, I typed "fall" between quotations because I don't believe it was a fall, but a climbing up in intellectual development.

ROFL That was a good one, the Jews only get saved by saving others. Who needs God then?

+++Ben: - You disappoint me with your childish questions, if you allow me to speak thus. Salvation from what to what? From ignorance to the knowledge of God. What did you think it could be? Of course, we need God!

It was a sarcastic question. No you dont follow the fourth commandment literally you do it in spirit just like the rest of them. You know some of the other wise moves you claim that was from Paul and his cronies all those parables and teachings from Jesus fit all perfectly with ALL the rest of scripture in the OT and NT. Man, back in those days they got all these guys to write letters and never made a contradiction to what was in the OT or what the other guy was writing and we cant even get two professors not to contradict each other these days. Genius absolute genius Paul was.

+++Ben: - I agree that Paul was quite a genius. The man was a Jew for Heaven's sake! Once I was asked for the reason why it had to be a Jew that Christianity, born in Greek lands, should report its existence to. Well, I answered, think of a relegated sect in the suburbs of a little town, struggling for recognition of its narow beliefs as a result of an old-fashioned visionary, and the only thing it will ever be able to achieve won't reach beyond the simple title of a cult. That's what Christianity would have been if it owed its existence to any other but a Jew. Furthermore, he was such genius that he succeeded in what a few before him and more than a few afterwards failed: To be the Messiah of his own gigantic religious Movement. While the others failed by self-proclaimed the Messiah, he succeeded by proxy. He proclaimed another while acting as the one.

Oh its almost mandatory for all male babies to get circumsided in the US so thanks to this physical circumcision most of the people in the US will be saved because of this--even those who dont believe in God--(Well they will be saved eventually but not because of what you believe)

+++Ben: - I never said that circumcision saves anyone. I don't even believe in salvation the way you do. Circumcision is only the sign of the Covenant between God and Israel. (Gen. 17:10-14)

Whoa slow down Ben.... you are starting to sound like Paul!!

+++Ben: - You are trying to insult me, but that's okay. Anyway, I could never be that genius.

Ro 12:1 - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

+++Ben: The Lord does not delight in sacrifices but in obedience to the commands of the Lord; for obedience is better than sacrifices. (I Sam. 15:22)

And i know you dont want to do that now do you? I will help you get that boot out if you ask me nicely.

+++Ben: - Have you checked your boat for holes before inviting me to jump into it?
You might want to do that at least for the sake of yourself.

Oh really.. then you must not have any kids because one of the ways they show their love to you is by doing what you tell them to do, with the possiblity also of an reward. For this Love thing may be way over your head...You quote a verse from Revelations so once again your this has happened to you so now take away those verses where Jesus is saying that some will be rewarded for obey His commands

+++Ben: - Those things about Jesus are part of the 80 percent that constitute interpolations. Jesus was a Jew, and as a Jew, he would not love God under the condition to get rewards.

Ben :clap

 

[AK4]

Ben :clap

+++Ben: The Lord does not delight in sacrifices but in obedience to the commands of the Lord; for obedience is better than sacrifices. (I Sam. 15:22)

Now since you are such an expert on Paul and his teachings then you would know that the very verse you used is exactly what Paul was teaching.

+++Ben: - Have you checked your boat for holes before inviting me to jump into it?
You might want to do that at least for the sake of yourself.

Ive checked and rechecked and checked and checked etc etc.

Now As for any holes--you have not yet once corrected me on any interpretation of scripture i have ever used to show how much you are in error. The only defense you ever use is "that was an interpolation from Paul and his cronies and I dont believe that one" "The Book of Job is not scripture" "I dont believe that verse" "Only 20% of the NT is true and only 80% of the NT is true" etc etc. You have yet to ever correct me scripturally. Your own words dont matter and are not scripture!

Many times i have shown you doing this:foot:. I especially had you on one thread and i was waiting for your reply but you completely avoided what i had shown you in scripture and changed the subject.

+++Ben: - Are you trying to tell me that the serpent lied? It's only obvious that you cannot think. The serpent simply explained to Eve what she had misunderstood. It did not lie. Eve thought that if they ate from that tree they would physically die, and that's not true. The serpent let her know that she had misunderstood God's words. Proof of it is that when they ate of that tree nobody died. So, what happened then? Their eyes were opened to distinguish good from evil. Isn't it exactly what the serpent had said? Now, go and review the account of the "fall." It's in Genesis 3:1-7. As you can see, I typed "fall" between quotations because I don't believe it was a fall, but a climbing up in intellectual development.

The serpent lied/twisted the meaning by implying that she had an immortal soul. (when you twist the meaning of a scripture, you lie) She would live forever. And no there was no fall--God created them exactly the way they were supposed to be--spiritually weak. She like you, didnt understand spiritual matters. They died spiritually. I will try to give you the benefit of doubt that you didnt mean to say that they didnt physically die---"(no their seed is still alive and thats us the collective messiah, see so thats how they never died")--spare me the time please

 

[Ben Masada]

Now since you are such an expert on Paul and his teachings then you would know that the very verse you used is exactly what Paul was teaching.

+++Ben: - Nevertheless, I didn't quote him but I Samuel 15:22.

Ive checked and rechecked and checked and checked etc etc.
Now As for any holes--you have not yet once corrected me on any interpretation of scripture i have ever used to show how much you are in error. The only defense you ever use is "that was an interpolation from Paul and his cronies and I dont believe that one"

+++Ben: - In that case, you should detach the NT from the Tanach, because it's an illegal addition that goes against the injunction in Deuteronomy 4:2.

"The Book of Job is not scripture" "I dont believe that verse"

+++Ben: - I never said that the book of Job is not Scripture. I said that it is a Jewish
literary novel. Job never existed, but the purpose of the book is to illustrate the role
of Israel in the Counsel of God. For that reason it's considered Scripture. You are reading too much where you shouldn't.

"Only 20% of the NT is true and only 80% of the NT is true" etc etc. You have yet to ever correct me scripturally. Your own words dont matter and are not scripture!

+++Ben: - That method of mine to look at the NT is good to minimize the contradictions.

Many times i have shown you doing this:foot: I especially had you on one thread and i was waiting for your reply but you completely avoided what i had shown you in scripture and changed the subject.

+++Ben: - I don't dialog only with one partner. I can divide myself among a variety of subjects. Then, I still have another life to live.

The serpent lied/twisted the meaning by implying that she had an immortal soul. (when you twist the meaning of a scripture, you lie) She would live forever. And no there was no fall--God created them exactly the way they were supposed to be--spiritually weak. She like you, didnt understand spiritual matters. They died spiritually. I will try to give you the benefit of doubt that you didnt mean to say that they didnt physically die---"(no their seed is still alive and thats us the collective messiah, see so thats how they never died")--spare me the time please

+++Ben: - The serpent did not imply immortality of the soul. Show me where you understand it thus. Souls do not exist to be mortal or immortal. And the death that resulted from eating of the tree of knowledge was death of ignorance and naivety. Physical death does not come from that episode, but from the fact that we are born. Death is as natural as birth. Therefore, the serpent did not twist any Scripture. You are again reading in the vacuum. You are the one twisting the Scripture to mislead your own self. The serpent never implied that Adam and Eve would live forever. You are the one implying. And they did not die spiritually. The opposite is true. That's when they started searching for God. In the Garden of Eden God would have to search for them. In the greater world outside they would have to search for God. And that's the right method according to God's will. Otherwise, God would not have caused their exodus from the Garden of Eden.

Ben :run:

 

[Orev905]

You know who didn't keep the forth commandment? Jesus.

 

[Ben Masada]

You know who didn't keep the forth commandment? Jesus.

In that case he sinned twice, once for lying, because he said that he had come to fulfill the whole Law and the Prophets to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19) And the other, because if he didn't keep the forth commandment, he broke the Law. Now, Christians can no longer say that he was sinless.


Ben:clap

 

[AK4]

+++Ben: - Nevertheless, I didn't quote him but I Samuel 15:22.

Nevertheless if its a Truth, its a Truth and so you are admitting that Paul is stating a Truth


+++Ben: - In that case, you should detach the NT from the Tanach, because it's an illegal addition that goes against the injunction in Deuteronomy 4:2.

Oh really and what did the Israelites do...

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jeremiah 8 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]8:8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? [/FONT]
Do you believe that verse?


+++Ben: - That method of mine to look at the NT is good to minimize the contradictions.

They are no contradictions if you had the eyes to see it.

 

[Ben Masada]

+++Ben: - Nevertheless, I didn't quote him but I Samuel 15:22.

Nevertheless if its a Truth, its a Truth and so you are admitting that Paul is stating a Truth


+++Ben: - In that case, you should detach the NT from the Tanach, because it's an illegal addition that goes against the injunction in Deuteronomy 4:2.

Oh really and what did the Israelites do...

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jeremiah 8 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]8:8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? [/FONT]
Do you believe that verse?


+++Ben: - That method of mine to look at the NT is good to minimize the contradictions.

They are no contradictions if you had the eyes to see it.

No, "nevertheless" in the sense that I don't need the NT. I have the Tanach.

Jeremiah 8:8 is a reference to the interpretation and ordinances of some antagonist Scribes who would ran counter to the Word of the Lord.

Some of the Princes were against Jeremiah even to encarcerate him if only not to hear his voice.
High ranking Princes had private Scribes who would interpret the Word of God counter to the spirit of the Prophets.


The contradictions of the NT are indeed contradictions to Jewish eyes.


Ben

 

[Elessar]

Actually, that's utterly wrong...the Messianic Writings clearly state multiple times that Yeshua observed the sabbath. In fact, there is not one time in the Messianic Writings in which Yeshua contradicts a single mitzvah from the written Torah.

 

[AK4]

No, "nevertheless" in the sense that I don't need the NT. I have the Tanach.

Jeremiah 8:8 is a reference to the interpretation and ordinances of some antagonist Scribes who would ran counter to the Word of the Lord.

Some of the Princes were against Jeremiah even to encarcerate him if only not to hear his voice.
High ranking Princes had private Scribes who would interpret the Word of God counter to the spirit of the Prophets.


The contradictions of the NT are indeed contradictions to Jewish eyes.


Ben

You dont need the "nt"? And yet when i question you on the 66 scrolls that God describes in Ex 25 you avoid the question. What was it again?---

AK4
Now ben you dismiss the MOST NT but what does this say--

EX 25:31 "Make a lampstand of pure gold and hammer it out, base and shaft; its flowerlike cups, buds and blossoms shall be of one piece with it. 32 Six branches are to extend from the sides of the lampstand--three on one side and three on the other. 33 Three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms are to be on one branch, three on the next branch, and the same for all six branches extending from the lampstand. 34 And on the lampstand there are to be four cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms. 35 One bud shall be under the first pair of branches extending from the lampstand, a second bud under the second pair, and a third bud under the third pair--six branches in all. 36 The buds and branches shall all be of one piece with the lampstand, hammered out of pure gold. 37 "Then make its seven lamps and set them up on it so that they light the space in front of it. 38 Its wick trimmers and trays are to be of pure gold. 39 A talent of pure gold is to be used for the lampstand and all these accessories. 40 See that you make them according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.

THE LAMP/LIGHT THAT YOU MOSTLY REJECT ALSO HAS 3 BRANCHES BUSTED OFF- 9 PIECES ON EACH OF THE 6 BRANCHES- 3 X 9=27
THE NUMBER OF BOOKS IN THE "nt" SO HOW CAN YOU "JEWS" BE THE LIGHT THAT IS IN SCRIPTURE WHEN YOU REJECT SOME OF IT

Now we have the other thread to hold our breathe for answer to that question so i will ask you a different question on this.

Jeremiah 8:8 is a reference to the interpretation and ordinances of some antagonist Scribes who would ran counter to the Word of the Lord.

Some of the Princes were against Jeremiah even to encarcerate him if only not to hear his voice.
High ranking Princes had private Scribes who would interpret the Word of God counter to the spirit of the Prophets.

(sarcastic here) Are you saying the JEWS WERE FALSIFYING THE WORD? Boy i wonder what your answer is going to be. (RT)