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Why fight over religion?
- Thread starter Sand Dancer
- Start date
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Let me rephrase that, if you believed and knew it you wouldnt fight.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
But not with my religion Ahmadiyya Islam. We conduct inter-faith symposiums almost where-ever we are and give equitable chance to the representative of other religions/no-religions of their choice. It creates no confusion. It doesn't matter if people change their religions, numbers are not that important, quality of humans matters. Right, please?
Regards
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The true problem is that it is a bold creed, so bold that it probably can only really work with careful consideration of the specific adherent's compatibility with the claims and a bit of proper supervision to avoid dangerous misguidance and correct course when necessary.
And that just isn't how things happened. On the contrary, those beliefs are among the most carelessly taught and spread in human history. We ended up with lots of people who have convinced themselves that they have a god-given mission to teach others how wrong their own beliefs are, very often under almost hilarious circunstances.
I don't think that I can agree with that claim, at least regarding Muhammad.
It is a well documented fact that Muhammad was no stranger to military action.
Sure, there is a lot of effort put on emphasizing that those military campaigns were supposed to be necessary defense against unfair, uncalled aggression.
But that is at the very least disputable, and I for one do not like how wide the exceptions and qualifications presented in the Qur'an are. It would be almost as good, and perhaps actually better, not to address the matter at all. I honestly don't think that the world (or Islaam's history) would be any more violent for that.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"bold creed"
But by itself, as I understand, it is an innocent reality. It is not against others. If people were from the off-spring of Abraham/Ibrahim, how does it hurt others, please? Kindly make it clear.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"I don't think that I can agree with that claim, at least regarding Muhammad."
Muhammad was not trained to fight or to command an army. One could verify it from the 53 years of Muhammad's life he spent in Mecca.
But I am not going to convince one on this. We may agree to disagree.
Right, please?
Regards
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I believe as long as people have interests to protect
as long as people are unable to love their neighbor
as long as people do not find peace in faith
People will do harm to other people
People do kill people simply for the fun of it
Buddhist in Myanmar in conflict with Muslims
There is a history of persecution of Muslims in Myanmar that continues to the present day.[2] Myanmar is a Buddhist majority country, with a significant Christian and Muslim minorities. While Muslims served in the government of Prime Minister U Nu (1948–63), the situation changed with the 1962 Burmese coup d'état. While a few continued to serve, most Christians and Muslims were excluded from positions in the government and army.[3] In 1982, the government introduced regulations that denied citizenship to anyone who could not prove Burmese ancestry from before 1823.[4] This disenfranchised many Muslims in Myanmar, even though they had lived in Myanmar for several generations.[5]
Persecution of Muslims in Myanmar - Wikipedia
Buddhist also suffered their share of persecution
Many Buddhists have experienced persecution because of their faith including unwarranted arrest, imprisonment, beating, torture, or execution. It also may refer to the confiscation or destruction of property, or the incitement of hatred towards Buddhists.
Persecution of Buddhists - Wikipedia
Hindu-Islamic conflict during the partition of India
The partition of India was the partition of British India in 1947 which accompanied the creation of two independent states, India and Pakistan. The Union of India is today the Republic of India and Dominion of Pakistan, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the People's Republic of Bangladesh. Wikipedia
Deaths: 200,000 to 2 million, 14 million displaced
Date: 15 August 1947
Total number of deaths: 200,000
Result: Partition of British India into independent India and Pakistan and refugee crises
Hindus also suffered their share of persecution
Hindus have experienced historical and current religious persecution and systematic violence. These occurred in the form of forced conversions, documented massacres, demolition and desecrations of temples, as well as the destruction of educational centres.
Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia
Claiming to speak with God's authority - the One True God that is supposedly both real and with inherent authority even over those who never heard of it - is hardly innocent. It can be well-meaning, but it is also very bold and, as so clearly demonstrated in history, often very bloodthirsty as well.
He was not trained to recite the Qur'an either, but there is little doubt that he did.
I may be mistaken, but I understand that even Muslims rarely doubt that he was indeed a military commander - a considerably succesful one at that.
Military career of Muhammad - Wikipedia
That is probably wise.
Why would Buddhists fight Hindus? If a Buddhist fight someone he or she has not understood the dharma
But I think that is the point he is making.
This is a long movie, but I think it better reflects the participation of Muhammad in the conflicts. This movie was made with Muslim permission in 1976.
i recommend this movie if one wishes to know how Islam was born.
Regards Tony
Heyo
Veteran Member
It isn't easy to know a motivation from an action. Often multiple reasons could be behind the same action. If we could separate the intellectual threat of "there is an other religion and that makes me think that my religion may not be the only one" from the existential threat of "there is an other tribe that competes with mine for resources and may subjugate my tribe", we would find that real threats are more often the reason for fights than intellectual ones.
Most modern, western democracies have a constitutional freedom of religion that guarantees that there is no real physical threat and it lead to a relatively peaceful coexistence of religions. Where that isn't the case, the clash of religions is more often violent.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Confusion is the exiting and necessary stage that comes before true insight.
I think ideas of the “sacred” are intoxicating and dangerous to humankind.
People will fight to the death to defend their sacred beliefs, people can even be persuaded to abandon core tenants of their faith for the “greater good.” Or if their sacred item, belief or what have you is insulted or defamed by someone else.
People will be people and they will fight each other over religion in a heartbeat. There are those who are more optimistic of course. Instead lamenting why we can’t just live and let live.
Alas I cannot offer any solutions. Some of these battles go back centuries and still scar the respective communities to this very day.
I mean how do wade into such territory and keep peace?
Religion is a powerful tool. It can foster community and love. It can also be used as a sledgehammer against perceived threats.
I dunno.
People will fight to the death to defend their sacred beliefs, people can even be persuaded to abandon core tenants of their faith for the “greater good.” Or if their sacred item, belief or what have you is insulted or defamed by someone else.
People will be people and they will fight each other over religion in a heartbeat. There are those who are more optimistic of course. Instead lamenting why we can’t just live and let live.
Alas I cannot offer any solutions. Some of these battles go back centuries and still scar the respective communities to this very day.
I mean how do wade into such territory and keep peace?
Religion is a powerful tool. It can foster community and love. It can also be used as a sledgehammer against perceived threats.
I dunno.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I'd think you'd figure this out.
To humans, personal truth is often absolute truth. This is why spirituality > religion. With spirituality, you can get hot an bothered but ultimately you know it's your personal belief.
-------------------------
There are only two Abrahamic religions. Judaism and Christianity. Islam is typically viewed as the third, but uses no part of the Bible or Torah as its scripture, and only claims this by way of trying to set the actual Abrahamic religions at ease. In actual fact, its only claim of connection was through Ishmael. And its book has Abrahamic religious figures, yes, but aside from (ahem, plagiarized) story of Lot, a good portion of the similar characters are distorted. Sometimes offensively.
-Jesus, rather than dying for our sins, is portrayed as a jerk who sends Judas to die on the cross. And they have a Jesus-like figure who will apparently resurrect on the last days to break the cross and kill pigs.
-Jesus btw, is not the Son of God, because "Allah has no son" and their view of the Trinity is a sick and twisted parody that involves Mary as the third part.
-Speaking of Mary, they confuse Mary with Miriam, another Biblical character entirely.
-Moses is seen doing non-canonical things like grabbing Pharoah by the beard, bringing a cow back to life, and there's this long stupid passage with him an a guy named Khidr that the guy kills someone and justifies it away, and it's ckearly a rationalization but we're supposed to take this as proof that this man is more knowledgeable than Moses because some fish leave a basket.
At this point, I'm pretty pissed off and honestly don't care to hear what they might have said about other prophets.
Actually, it's just Islam. The two Abrahamic religions don't always like each other, but they can at least somewhat coexist, with Jews inside Jerusalem and Christians among the Gentiles. Hell, the two Abrahamic religions have coexisted with the Zoroastrians just fine too! During the time before Muhammad, Chrisians, Jews, and Zoroastrians lived together with pagans in Mecca. They call this the "dark times" or something.
"Let no one say, and to your shame, that all was beautiful 'fore you came."
Islam has fought a bloody war against everyone they came in contact with, including the Buddhists! Seriously, thet played the "poor me, we're being oppressed by the Buddhists" and idiot westerners took their side. You have to be pretty wrong to get Buddhists mad at you.
By the way, the Crusades are not, as depicted in many history books, a war of aggression. Islam had encroached as far as Spain and Turkey, and Christians had decided they had enough of their lands despoiled. They had lost presence in the Holy Lands, but were also losing their own countries in Europe. Now, thanks to the EU, history is repeating, but now most ppl have a false account of events.
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Not if it lasts a lifetime, or puts one in an asylum. But I agree if you have reincarnation in that equation.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I believe as long as people have interests to protect
as long as people are unable to love their neighbor
as long as people do not find peace in faith
People will do harm to other people
People do kill people simply for the fun of it
Buddhist in Myanmar in conflict with Muslims
There is a history of persecution of Muslims in Myanmar that continues to the present day.[2] Myanmar is a Buddhist majority country, with a significant Christian and Muslim minorities. While Muslims served in the government of Prime Minister U Nu (1948–63), the situation changed with the 1962 Burmese coup d'état. While a few continued to serve, most Christians and Muslims were excluded from positions in the government and army.[3] In 1982, the government introduced regulations that denied citizenship to anyone who could not prove Burmese ancestry from before 1823.[4] This disenfranchised many Muslims in Myanmar, even though they had lived in Myanmar for several generations.[5]
Persecution of Muslims in Myanmar - Wikipedia
Buddhist also suffered their share of persecution
Many Buddhists have experienced persecution because of their faith including unwarranted arrest, imprisonment, beating, torture, or execution. It also may refer to the confiscation or destruction of property, or the incitement of hatred towards Buddhists.
Persecution of Buddhists - Wikipedia
This is the account I am talking about.
Buddhists have every right to forbid Christians from government positions, and we shouldn't be proselytizing there. I dislike runaway conversion missions, except in cases where ppl are literally uncivilized (like headhunting and cannibalism).
On the other hand, they are accused in many of these countries of persecuting these poor innocent Muslims. Only, would you like to know what often happened? In Roginyanhya (not spelling it right), the Buddhist actually fought the Muslims. Those terrible Buddhists, right? No! Their nuns had been raped, their land was being taken, and their monks were being killed. Unprovoked, and when Buddhists fought back, they played the Wounded Gazelle act for all it was worth.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/04/...mar-really-just-an-example-of-buddhist-terror
For two centuries, in fact, Buddhists put up with this. I wouldn't for 2 years., but this gives you an idea how not inclined to violence they are. When they did fight back, it was mainly their military.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
Religions are often also social-political creatures and some of those creatures have thin-skins it seems.