Why do you dislike Islam?

[England my lionheart]

It was the golden age of Islam but not because of Islam, so what was the cause?

Education.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Islam doesn't force the others to convert to Islam, not true

Tell that to the Yazidis or the Christian women kidnapped by Boko Haram. Also, the forces of Islam taking over sites of worship in the Middle East and Asia points to the opposite being true. Turning the Kabba, the Hagia Sophia, and Hindu temples into mosques points at a desire to religiously dominate an area.

Islam doesn't apply any kind of punishment for those who steal for the need of food,

You're right and I've made an error.

Islamic law is more merciful than the secular laws.

I hope you just mean in relation to the specific claim about stealing food; and not more generally.

 

[FearGod]

Tell that to the Yazidis or the Christian women kidnapped by Boko Haram. Also, the forces of Islam taking over sites of worship in the Middle East and Asia points to the opposite being true. Turning the Kabba, the Hagia Sophia, and Hindu temples into mosques points at a desire to religiously dominate an area.

Spain is by itself an evidence that Islam wasn't bad but it was a boon, Andalusia was the
best city in Europe and students were traveling to Spain to gain knowledge, it was really
a miracle that a few bedouins had did it.

I hope you just mean in relation to the specific claim about stealing food; and not more generally.

God wanted humans to live in peace and in justice, prior to Islam it was hell, women has
no value at all and even they were killed once born, 2 tyrants controlling the region, one
from the east (the Persians) and the other one from the west (the romans).

Prior to Islam if a person from one tribe killed one from the other tribe, then a war starts
between the 2 tribes, Islam educated them that only the killer should be punished
and no war should be started as a consequence of a crime done by one person, and even
the killer can be exempted in some occasions if the other family forgave him for some reasons.

 

[England my lionheart]

Spain is by itself an evidence that Islam wasn't bad but it was a boon, Andalusia was the
best city in Europe and students were traveling to Spain to gain knowledge, it was really
a miracle that a few bedouins had did it.

God wanted humans to live in peace and in justice, prior to Islam it was hell, women has
no value at all and even they were killed once born, 2 tyrants controlling the region, one
from the east (the Persians) and the other one from the west (the romans).

Prior to Islam if a person from one tribe killed one from the other tribe, then a war starts
between the 2 tribes, Islam educated them that only the killer should be punished
and no war should be started as a consequence of a crime done by one person, and even
the killer can be exempted in some occasions if the other family forgave him for some reasons.

Looks like Islam was exempt too,after all the Jews they killed in Spain,the religion of peace huh.

 

[Augustus]

You didn't read the article about Al zahrawi

Since Zahrawi was a descendant of the ‘Al-Ansar’ tribe that hailed from the Hejaz province of Arabia (now Saudi Arabia), he was attributed with the title ‘Al-Ansari’. He completed his schooling and higher education from Cordoba. He spent the better part of his life studying, instructing, practicing surgery and medicine in Cordoba.

I read it, just consider it inconclusive one way or the other. By the 4th C AH genealogy was not something that was necessarily reliable as 'Arabness' was an evolving concept that was being retrofitted as part of an attempt at constructing a common identity.

the Muslim-era constructions of pan-Arab genealogy did not emanate from actual pre-Islamic populations, and it was up to Muslim-era writers to link the various groups, tribes and memories into neat genealogical models.76 Only once the models were established could subsequent writers, for the first time, conceptualise ancient Arabs as a single community of inter- related tribes. e constructedness of third/ninth-century Arab genealogies has been noted

On population mixing:

During the Umayyad period, the former, pre-Islamic Iraqi population centres were abandoned as indigenous Iraqis moved into the am‚ār for economic opportunity, and these immigrants (who acquired the name mawālī18) began sharing the same social contexts as the descendants of the Conquerors. Considered in relation to theories of ethnicity, such population movements generally rewrite social divi- sions and thus in uenced early Islamic-era Iraq’s ethnic boundaries. By the later Umayyad period, many mawālī had converted to Islam, spoke Arabic and were born in the same environment as the scion of the Conquerors, so whilst mawālī were distinct from the Conquerors in terms of their origins, mawālī adoption of Arabic ‘cultural stuff’ (language and religion) and their rising economic and administrative power thanks to their participation in the success of the am‚ār reduced barriers between them and the Conqueror elites. By the early second/eighth century, the two generations of reorganising Iraq’s urban landscape would have made it difficult to discern ʿarab from many mawālī...

On acquiring 'Arabness'

The inhabitants of al-Óaras reportedly claimed to be Arabs of the Qu∂āʿa group in order to be included on the social Dīwān for entitlement to government stipend,52 but their claim was not accepted, and despite being offered a bribe of six thousand dinars to include them on the Dīwān, the Egyptian presid- ing judge deferred decision, referring the matter to the Caliph. e Óarasīs’ subsequent delegation to Baghdad was also expensive,53 but they eventually forged or bribed their way into an opinion from an Iraqi scholar of geneal- ogy, al-Mufa∂∂al ibn Fa∂āla, that proved their lineage to the Arab tribe of Qu∂āʿa. e Caliph al-Amīn accepted the ‘evidence’ and ordered their names entered on the Egyptian Dīwān..

the story indicates that proving Arabness was evidently of substantial practical value at the end of the second/eighth century, but the Óarasīs’ travails also reveal how contested (and fluid) kinship was (in keeping with the premise that Arab genealogy was not yet wholly systematised).

Imagining the Arabs: Arab Identity and the Rise of Islam
Peter Webb


So many 'Arabs' were (and still are) not ethnic Arabs but the same people who lived in those places under the Romans and Persian who adopted an emerging 'Arab' cultural identity. BEing a 'real' Arab was socially advantages in the early centuries so forged tribal links were common. Over the years these became accepted as fact.

 

[Augustus]

God wanted humans to live in peace and in justice, prior to Islam it was hell, women has
no value at all and even they were killed once born, .

How does 'women had no value at all' fit with the story of Khadija?

In general though, the jahiliyyah narratives take a fair amount of poetic licence to make a stark contrast for rhetorical purposes. The Arabs were nowhere near as backwards as they are often portrayed, and many/most were Jews and Christians by the 7th C.

 

[Notanumber]

women has
no value at all and even they were killed once born

Now they are doing it before they are born. Is this progress?

Thousands of girls are aborted due to gender: Study finds couples from cultures in which sons are deemed more desirable are terminating female pregnancies | Daily Mail Online

 

[FearGod]

I read it, just consider it inconclusive one way or the other. By the 4th C AH genealogy was not something that was necessarily reliable as 'Arabness' was an evolving concept that was being retrofitted as part of an attempt at constructing a common identity.

the Muslim-era constructions of pan-Arab genealogy did not emanate from actual pre-Islamic populations, and it was up to Muslim-era writers to link the various groups, tribes and memories into neat genealogical models.76 Only once the models were established could subsequent writers, for the first time, conceptualise ancient Arabs as a single community of inter- related tribes. e constructedness of third/ninth-century Arab genealogies has been noted

On population mixing:

During the Umayyad period, the former, pre-Islamic Iraqi population centres were abandoned as indigenous Iraqis moved into the am‚ār for economic opportunity, and these immigrants (who acquired the name mawālī18) began sharing the same social contexts as the descendants of the Conquerors. Considered in relation to theories of ethnicity, such population movements generally rewrite social divi- sions and thus in uenced early Islamic-era Iraq’s ethnic boundaries. By the later Umayyad period, many mawālī had converted to Islam, spoke Arabic and were born in the same environment as the scion of the Conquerors, so whilst mawālī were distinct from the Conquerors in terms of their origins, mawālī adoption of Arabic ‘cultural stuff’ (language and religion) and their rising economic and administrative power thanks to their participation in the success of the am‚ār reduced barriers between them and the Conqueror elites. By the early second/eighth century, the two generations of reorganising Iraq’s urban landscape would have made it difficult to discern ʿarab from many mawālī...

On acquiring 'Arabness'

The inhabitants of al-Óaras reportedly claimed to be Arabs of the Qu∂āʿa group in order to be included on the social Dīwān for entitlement to government stipend,52 but their claim was not accepted, and despite being offered a bribe of six thousand dinars to include them on the Dīwān, the Egyptian presid- ing judge deferred decision, referring the matter to the Caliph. e Óarasīs’ subsequent delegation to Baghdad was also expensive,53 but they eventually forged or bribed their way into an opinion from an Iraqi scholar of geneal- ogy, al-Mufa∂∂al ibn Fa∂āla, that proved their lineage to the Arab tribe of Qu∂āʿa. e Caliph al-Amīn accepted the ‘evidence’ and ordered their names entered on the Egyptian Dīwān..

the story indicates that proving Arabness was evidently of substantial practical value at the end of the second/eighth century, but the Óarasīs’ travails also reveal how contested (and fluid) kinship was (in keeping with the premise that Arab genealogy was not yet wholly systematised).

Imagining the Arabs: Arab Identity and the Rise of Islam
Peter Webb


So many 'Arabs' were (and still are) not ethnic Arabs but the same people who lived in those places under the Romans and Persian who adopted an emerging 'Arab' cultural identity. BEing a 'real' Arab was socially advantages in the early centuries so forged tribal links were common. Over the years these became accepted as fact.

I don't want to be involved in a stupid discussion, are you claiming that Arabs aren't smart enough to have scientists and all scientists are non Arabs.

 

[FearGod]

How does 'women had no value at all' fit with the story of Khadija?

Not all women were killed otherwise they'll gone extinct

In general though, the jahiliyyah narratives take a fair amount of poetic licence to make a stark contrast for rhetorical purposes. The Arabs were nowhere near as backwards as they are often portrayed, and many/most were Jews and Christians by the 7th C.

Give me the name of some scientists during the jahiliyyah and if you can't and you won't
then don't keep on writing nonsense posts.

 

[FearGod]

Looks like Islam was exempt too,after all the Jews they killed in Spain,the religion of peace huh.

Do you mean the holocaust huh, peaceful Europeans.

 

[FearGod]

Now they are doing it before they are born. Is this progress?

Thousands of girls are aborted due to gender: Study finds couples from cultures in which sons are deemed more desirable are terminating female pregnancies | Daily Mail Online

Aisha was leading the military in her young age, a commander.

 

[MohammadPali]

Aisha r.a didn't command an army. And the battle of a jamal, was battle of infiltration, the rebel muslims called the khawarij infiltrated both camps of aishas may god be pleased with her and the caliph ali may god be please with him. It started a night to cause confusion, and a battle or fight occurred where the muslims fought for absolutely no reason after agreements were made on both sides. The khawarijj started to spur hostility on both sides to get them to fight and they did.

 

[England my lionheart]

Do you mean the holocaust huh, peaceful Europeans.

I've never claimed Europeans are peaceful and wouldn't,your golden age had an edge to it in chop chop square.

 

[MohammadPali]

Tell that to the Yazidis or the Christian women kidnapped by Boko Haram. Also, the forces of Islam taking over sites of worship in the Middle East and Asia points to the opposite being true. Turning the Kabba, the Hagia Sophia, and Hindu temples into mosques points at a desire to religiously dominate an area.




You're right and I've made an error.




I hope you just mean in relation to the specific claim about stealing food; and not more generally.

The yeazidis were also mishandled by christian arabs , the christians persecuted them too and called the satan worshippers. They worship a peacock.

 

[FearGod]

I've never claimed Europeans are peaceful and wouldn't,your golden age had an edge to it in chop chop square.

And is there one in Andalusia?

 

[FearGod]

The yeazidis were also mishandled by christian arabs , the christians persecuted them too and called the satan worshippers. They worship a peacock.

This verse describes them indeed.

Indeed, for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have made pleasing to them their deeds, so they wander blindly.(27:4)

 

[Augustus]

I don't want to be involved in a stupid discussion, are you claiming that Arabs aren't smart enough to have scientists and all scientists are non Arabs.

History is stupid? Suit yourself.

I'm saying that most 'Arabs' are not ethnic Arabs (i.e. from the Hijaz) and that conquering people doesn't change their ethnicity.

The major centres of learning were in Persia, North Africa, Iraq, etc not Mecca or Medina. The majority of people in these places were not ethnic Arabs, they were the indigenous people of the region.

Arabness was a negotiated construct that mostly emerged after the conquests with many genealogies and tribal affiliations emerging retroactively. By the 4th C AH you couldn't really tell if someone's purported lineage was genuine or had been fabricated by an ancestor several centuries previous.

To answer your strawman, most were not Arabs =/= none of them were Arabs.

When you have an empire that is overwhelmingly non-Arab ethnically, it's hardly surprising that most famous scholars are also non-Arab in ethnicity.

 

[MohammadPali]

History is stupid? Suit yourself.

I'm saying that most 'Arabs' are not ethnic Arabs (i.e. from the Hijaz) and that conquering people doesn't change their ethnicity.

The major centres of learning were in Persia, North Africa, Iraq, etc not Mecca or Medina. The majority of people in these places were not ethnic Arabs, they were the indigenous people of the region.

Arabness was a negotiated construct that mostly emerged after the conquests with many genealogies and tribal affiliations emerging retroactively. By the 4th C AH you couldn't really tell if someone's purported lineage was genuine or had been fabricated by an ancestor several centuries previous.

To answer your strawman, most were not Arabs =/= none of them were Arabs.

When you have an empire that is overwhelmingly non-Arab ethnically, it's hardly surprising that most famous scholars are also non-Arab in ethnicity.

I guess that ancestry tree is wrong, I am not 74 percent arab. lol, this guy on the internets told me im not arab or most arabs arent arabs.

They came from agrabah the same kingdowm from Aladdin on flying carpets.

 

[LuisDantas]

This verse describes them indeed.

Indeed, for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have made pleasing to them their deeds, so they wander blindly.(27:4)

This is one of those prophecies you often mention, I assume?

 

[Augustus]

Not all women were killed otherwise they'll gone extinct

Seems she had a lot of status though.

Give me the name of some scientists during the jahiliyyah and if you can't and you won't
then don't keep on writing nonsense posts.

The point was that all these stories about how barbarous and uncivilised and backward they were is greatly exaggerated. They were well integrated with the rest of the Middle East, trading, serving in the armies of Persia/Rome, following the same religions.

To say that 'unless they had famous scientists then the stories must be true' is another one of your frequent strawmen.

Of course they became more advanced when they had a rich and cosmopolitan empire.