Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is due to the fact that Jesus is God in the flesh and it is God who has inspired the writing of the Bible. He is definitely in closer control of the NT through the paraclete.
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Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it is not.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe author is not the same thing as writer. Even Paul had someone write for him because his eyes were bad. The author is much more significant than the writer.
It's unfortunately true that despite all four versions of Jesus in the gospels not only never claiming to be God but directly denying that they're God, Christians in the 4th century invented the Trinity doctrine so as to solve church political problems by elevating Jesus to God status.
It results in nonsense such as you see on that page you quote.
I agree. Though I believe some believe Jesus (Joshua?) received the Commandments from Moses.
Possibly many believe Jesus inspired or indirectly guided those that wrote the Bible.
Many Christians believe Jesus Christ was God's Son and existed prior to His fulfillment of prophesy and returned as described in the Gospels.and actually the Creator in the Name of God.
Possibly many believe Jesus inspired or indirectly guided those that wrote the Bible.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I don't particularly like a "Red Letter Bible," putting what Jesus said in red letters, I'd rather read it as integrated in the text, but putting Jesus' words in red letters doesn't mean that Jesus wrote the Bible.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
“ there are seven. Orthodox, Ethiopian, Catholic, Protestant, Neo-Gnostic, Esoteric, and the newer movements “
paarsurrey post #47 in the thread " How Many Christian Denominations Are There?"
Does any of them reaches to (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah and his teachings or did they all stem from the fake vision Hellenist Paul fabricated, please, right???
Regards
__________
Note: (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah never gave teachings or even supported the Hellenist deity (of dying, rising, atoning and ascending), if yes, then anybody kindly quote from him in this connection, please, right?
Exxx S. ,religion, Gothic Stoic said #50
None of the teachings of the Ebionites, Nazarenes, Jewish Christians, etc. have survived in the form of a traditional lineage, as far as I’m aware. All attempts at reconstructing their beliefs would therefore fall under the “newer movements” as a form of modern reconstructionism.
That said, much of the Neo-Gnostic, Esoteric, and newer movements do disregard Paul. I’ve only ever seen one Gnostic Christian defend Paul, and then they were buried under arguments from Neo-Sethians, Neo-Valentinians, Neo-Cathars, and Johannites.
That said, no teachings of Yeshua have survived to the modern age. All we have are post-contemporary accounts of what his followers believed. We can’t actually reconstruct what Yeshua taught or thought at all.
Exxx S. ,Gothic Stoic #52,
I agree that Paul/Saul of Tarsus is not a reliable source for what Yeshua bar Yosef of Nazareth taught or believed. In fact, if it wasn’t for Marcion preserving his letters, it seems many early Christians were content to have his views lost in the sands of time. By Saul’s own admission, he was not necessarily teaching the same things as Simon bar Yona and Ya’akov bar Yosef, who are the only historical figures that I think are likely to have known Yeshua in life.
However, the other texts we have about Yeshua are mostly anonymous or pseudonymous, written decades after his death, likely by people who never knew him personally. Even during Saul’s time, there was some fragmentation among Christians about what they believe, and all of these texts were written after some time had passed for these various concepts to grow into entire sub-movements like the Ebionites, the Nazarenes, the Sethians, the Valentinians, etc.
If Saul is not a reliable source on what Yeshua taught and believed, which I don’t think he is, then none of the other texts are, either, because they’re even further from the source.
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
“ there are seven. Orthodox, Ethiopian, Catholic, Protestant, Neo-Gnostic, Esoteric, and the newer movements “
paarsurrey post #47 in the thread " How Many Christian Denominations Are There?"
Does any of them reaches to (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah and his teachings or did they all stem from the fake vision Hellenist Paul fabricated, please, right???
Regards
__________
Note: (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah never gave teachings or even supported the Hellenist deity (of dying, rising, atoning and ascending), if yes, then anybody kindly quote from him in this connection, please, right?
Exxx S. ,religion, Gothic Stoic said #50
None of the teachings of the Ebionites, Nazarenes, Jewish Christians, etc. have survived in the form of a traditional lineage, as far as I’m aware. All attempts at reconstructing their beliefs would therefore fall under the “newer movements” as a form of modern reconstructionism.
That said, much of the Neo-Gnostic, Esoteric, and newer movements do disregard Paul. I’ve only ever seen one Gnostic Christian defend Paul, and then they were buried under arguments from Neo-Sethians, Neo-Valentinians, Neo-Cathars, and Johannites.
That said, no teachings of Yeshua have survived to the modern age. All we have are post-contemporary accounts of what his followers believed. We can’t actually reconstruct what Yeshua taught or thought at all.
Exxx S. ,Gothic Stoic #52,
I agree that Paul/Saul of Tarsus is not a reliable source for what Yeshua bar Yosef of Nazareth taught or believed. In fact, if it wasn’t for Marcion preserving his letters, it seems many early Christians were content to have his views lost in the sands of time. By Saul’s own admission, he was not necessarily teaching the same things as Simon bar Yona and Ya’akov bar Yosef, who are the only historical figures that I think are likely to have known Yeshua in life.
However, the other texts we have about Yeshua are mostly anonymous or pseudonymous, written decades after his death, likely by people who never knew him personally. Even during Saul’s time, there was some fragmentation among Christians about what they believe, and all of these texts were written after some time had passed for these various concepts to grow into entire sub-movements like the Ebionites, the Nazarenes, the Sethians, the Valentinians, etc.
If Saul is not a reliable source on what Yeshua taught and believed, which I don’t think he is, then none of the other texts are, either, because they’re even further from the source.
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You bring up names like Neo-Gnostic, etc., but beyond that nothing...so the scriptures delineate the fact that there were factions back then, some following Jesus, others not, some believing in a resurrection, others not. So?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Why would some say that Jesus wrote the Bible? Can you explain in simple enough words as to why some might say that Jesus wrote the Bible? thanks.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There were factions that believed in Jesus. For example, there were the Marcionites, teh Gnostics, the Nazarenes (Jews that continued practicing Judaism while believing in Jesus) and the proto-Catholic/Orthodox of Pauline tradition.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus that NT Bible is from him?
One many like paarsurrey post #22 and post #31 in the thread ” The Didache ”
post #22
What does didache mean in the Catholic church?
Teaching of the Twelve Apostles
Didachē, (Greek: “Teaching”) also called Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, the oldest surviving Christian church order, probably written in Egypt or Syria in the 2nd century.
Didache | Definition, History, Importance, & Facts – Britannica
Britannica
https://www.britannica.com › … › Scriptures
Search for: What does didache mean in the Catholic church?
post #31
So neither the Catholics nor the Protestants have anything from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, right?
Regards
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
One many like paarsurrey post #22 and post #31 in the thread ” The Didache ”
post #22
What does didache mean in the Catholic church?
Teaching of the Twelve Apostles
Didachē, (Greek: “Teaching”) also called Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, the oldest surviving Christian church order, probably written in Egypt or Syria in the 2nd century.
Didache | Definition, History, Importance, & Facts – Britannica
Britannica
https://www.britannica.com › … › Scriptures
Search for: What does didache mean in the Catholic church?
post #31
paarsurrey wrote:
So neither the Catholics nor the Protestants have anything from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, right?
Regards
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
Isn't it an accusation against Yeshua that he was "son of god", right??
One many like paarsurrey post #39 in the thread ” Who is Jesus to you? :
paarsurrey said:#22
To me:
Jesus/Yeshua a truthful prophet of G-d and the truthful Israelite Messiah, I love him, right?
#39
Jesus/Yeshua - the truthful Israelite Messiah was an Israelite (aka Jew) and he followed in the Word of G-d given to Moses (aka Torah), right?
He is reported to have claimed to be "Son of God" (not by him in first person but by anonymous narrators in third person) in the sense it was usually used in the Torah ( aka OT), right?
Which, therefore, only meant:
It is out of context that the Christianity people, all 45000+ denominations (including JWs and LDS ), if they take it in physical and or literal terms , right?
Isn't it an accusation against Yeshua that he was "son of god", right??
Regards
#39
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
Isn't it an accusation against Yeshua that he was "son of god", right??
One many like paarsurrey post #39 in the thread ” Who is Jesus to you? :
paarsurrey said:#22
To me:
Jesus/Yeshua a truthful prophet of G-d and the truthful Israelite Messiah, I love him, right?
Friends @Mxxxxxd #28, #37,@Txxxxxxxxxh #32 !
#39
Jesus/Yeshua - the truthful Israelite Messiah was an Israelite (aka Jew) and he followed in the Word of G-d given to Moses (aka Torah), right?
He is reported to have claimed to be "Son of God" (not by him in first person but by anonymous narrators in third person) in the sense it was usually used in the Torah ( aka OT), right?
Which, therefore, only meant:
- being loved by "G-d"-('the-father')/Allah/YHVH or
- a chosen one (Messenger/Prophet)of Him, right?
It is out of context that the Christianity people, all 45000+ denominations (including JWs and LDS ), if they take it in physical and or literal terms , right?
Isn't it an accusation against Yeshua that he was "son of god", right??
Regards
#39
Why do the Christians accuse Jesus of writing the NT Bible?
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Do the Protestants and other 45000+ denomination of the Christendom agree with your above notion, please, right??
Regards
____________
"
There are more than 45,000 Christian denominations globally and more than 200 in the U.S., according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity. Most of the denominations came to be after the Protestant Reformation in 1517.Apr 7, 2023
You might be surprised at how many Christian denominations ...
Orange County Register
https://www.ocregister.com › 2023/04/07 › you-might-b...
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
This question puzzles me for two reasons.
The first is that I have never heard a Christain say that Jesus wrote the New Testament. The believe a number of different authors wrote it, especially Paul.
The second is that by using the word "accuse" you make it seem like writing the New Testament is a bad thing. You accuse people of wrongs. Christians consider the New Testament to be a wonderful thing, so it is not really appropriate to use the word accuse.
Hi, @paarsurrey
Roughly speaking, what we call accusations are situations that we find in some way wrong or regrettable and that we consider some specific people or group responsible for.
Christians (a group of which I take no part) don't uniformly consider Jesus/Yeshua to be the son of god and/or god itself, but most do - or, at least, are nominally adherents of churches and other movements that declare that it is so.
Also, we should probably take into account that most Christians just don't have much trouble with the idea of Jesus being both a Prophet and also literally the son of god and in some sense that god itself. It is a logical contradiction by certain expectations, but they have grown used to contemplating those contradictions as displays of divine transcendence, mysteries of faith, or perhaps both.
I expect that to be a bit of a shock to the expectations of the average Muslim. If I am not mistaken, you are usually taught very emphatically that god and human beings are very much separate and of distinct natures, and that it is very important indeed to recognize and separate them properly. It even seems to factor into much of your practical actions and decisions in everyday life.
The simple truth is that those are Muslim expectations. Some Christians might come from a comparable and somewhat similar set of conceptions and expectations, but most will not. They do not have any problem with Jesus being both human, god and son of god. Nor would they be bothered if somehow it turned out that Jesus wrote any or even all of the Bible; it is no secret that many Christians wish they had an actual Gospel of Jesus. If I am not mistaken, there were in fact claims that such a text turned up in some way. That isn't inherently wrong for Christians, and may in fact be a blessing that they just don't expect to receive.
The red letter Bible does mean Jesus wrote the Bible. It is felt by those who made it that Jesus's words are the most important part of the Gospels.
There is no conclusive evidence for the final compilation of the Gospels and the Didache. I believe the final compilation was by Hellenist Jewish Christians from Syria and Asia Minor who were converted by Paul and/or their descendants.
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Yes, there are thousands of denominations of Christianity, but they do not determine who compiled and edited the NT. There is no known original text of the Bible and no text is known to exist before ~150 AD. The Bible evolved to a large extent before all these divisions of Christianity existed. The early church was being persecuted.. What would be the Roman Church would soon come into being, and a collection of diverse texts called gospels existed copies of letters claimed to be from Paul and Peter, and an assortment of other documents.
Constantine's rule AD 306 to 337 acceptance of Christianity and set the stage for the standardization of scripture and doctrine,
From 325 to 787 the Bishops of Rome formed 6 Councils requested by Constantine to determine the Books of the NT, and resolved doctrine disputes such as the Trinity.
Yes, the Roman Church determined the scripture and fundamental doctrine. that determines the dominant beliefs we have today
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The only ecumenical council that I'm aware Constantine convened was the Council of Nicea, and it had nothing to do with setting canon. I find it odd that you think Constantine would have anything to do with any council in 787, long after he was dead. I'm obviously missing something.