Why do People feel entitled to be a part of the middle class?

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not so sure about this. I tend to wonder how much this view is just the age-old "damn kids these days" attitude that every generation has of younger generations. As always, it's hard to tell because it's hard to get more than anecdotal evidence either way, although it's possible there is some I'm missing in this case.

Yeah, it's hard to quantify attitudes. I just know a lot of people in their twenties, and a broad sense of entitlement seems to be more prevalent among them than among our generation, or older generations. Particularly, entitlement combined with a lack of expectation of having to work for things, and more trepidation about leaving the nest.

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah, it's hard to quantify attitudes. I just know a lot of people in their twenties, and a broad sense of entitlement seems to be more prevalent among them than among our generation, or older generations. Particularly, entitlement combined with a lack of expectation of having to work for things, and more trepidation about leaving the nest.

I was actually just reading an article about this. It's possible this view is true. I just have to wonder, because you see the same sort of complaints from every generation about the younger ones. It seems likely that in 20 years, people of the generation in question will be complaining about people in their 20s not being up to the standards of older generations.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I was actually just reading an article about this. It's possible this view is true. I just have to wonder, because you see the same sort of complaints from every generation about the younger ones. It seems likely that in 20 years, people of the generation in question will be complaining about people in their 20s not being up to the standards of older generations.

There's no doubt an element of that, and it's compelling to ascribe such views to nothing more than repeating patterns of human behavior. However, it does seem possible that the myriad of cultural, social, and technological changes which have been accelerating since their birth could explain an actual change in perspective between this generation and previous ones. I suppose younger people have always been naive and irritating, and maybe we just never realize it until we grow out of it.

 

[Magic Man]

There's no doubt an element of that, and it's compelling to ascribe such views to nothing more than repeating patterns of human behavior. However, it does seem possible that the myriad of cultural, social, and technological changes which have been accelerating since their birth could explain an actual change in perspective between this generation and previous ones.

Agreed.

I suppose younger people have always been naive and irritating, and maybe we just never realize it until we grow out of it.

It helps that you and I were obviously never naive and irritating.

 

[LuisDantas]

Hasn't the very nature of Middle Class changed somewhat in the last few decades? It would seem to me that there is a whole lot more demand for expense these days, if you catch my drift.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It helps that you and I were obviously never naive and irritating.

It does tend to give one a skewed perspective.

 

[LuisDantas]

But it _is_ fairly clear that people stay living with their parents for a longer time and more often now than they used to do in previous generations, don't you think?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But it _is_ fairly clear that people stay living with their parents for a longer time and more often now than they used to do in previous generations, don't you think?

It seems clear to me. However, as MM pointed out, my evidence is primarily anecdotal. I've never had sufficient urge to research whether this is the case or not, or to what extent it has changed.

 

[Magic Man]

But it _is_ fairly clear that people stay living with their parents for a longer time and more often now than they used to do in previous generations, don't you think?

It seems that way, although I haven't seen any data on it. It seems like there's just a lengthening of the growing-up process. In past eras, a minority of people went to college. Now a college degree is the equivalent of a high-school diploma years ago. Whereas in the past kids would move out in their late teens and early twenties when they were done with school and getting a real job, now that phase tends to be later because they're in school later. But I'm sure there's also more to it.

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me kind of silly for the wealthiest nation in history to have an economy in which so many hard working people cannot fully provide for themselves and their children. If that thought makes me someone others see as thinking people are entitled to be middle class, then so be it. It's the thought I start with when considering whether we live in an economically just society.

 

[oldbadger]

Why do People feel entitled to be a part of the middle class?

This is clever......... The 'we have's have got a clever angle here.

The more 'we have not's that can be tempted into believing that they are really members of the 'middle class', the 'respected class', the 'somebody' class, so the more people that might be duped into thinking like mid-class...... voting like mid class.

The best thing, the very best thing that ordinary folks can do for their country is to insist on being called 'the deprived class'........ to proudly announce that they are members of the lowest class, the class supporting economic reform which can reflect the new age of computers and robotics taking so many jobs away.

If enough people can throw 'class' to the winds and support those who believe in a health service for all, strong support for those in need, good policing against both benefits-cheats and tax dodgers all, then they will always be the winning voters.

I wonder how much could be saved by better control of migrating money to tax havens, and also gift tax and inheritance tax? So my suggestion to the American people would be .....don't go near the false prophet of mid-class status...... stay with and vote for those, who will bring financial fairness to all..... in one of the richest countries on Earth.'

The higher you pretend to rise in status, so the harder your lives might be....?

 

[dawny0826]

I don't feel any different. However I think the lack of education is keeping people back now. I think that the ones your talking about is very very very few in number compaired to the far more people that will take the opprotunity. It means anyone that wants to get out of the cycle can. In our current system its not entierly by choice.

I don't expect you to feel any different, in honesty.

But, your differing opinion doesn't necessarily invalidate the experience3s and perspectives of others.

In my line of work I work with a lot of people who fall into the very category that you and others claim is such a small number. It might be. But when that statistic dictates such costly decisions on every level of government - it's a much larger problem.

It surprises me daily how many people forego opportunity that could, in the long wrong, yield better benefit.

 

[tytlyf]

It surprises me daily how many people forego opportunity that could, in the long wrong, yield better benefit.

I wouldn't assume that. Certain races deal with prejudice immediately and get discredited. Being "lazy" is more on the business person hiring.

 

[s2a]

We all come into this world with nothing. We cannot choose our parents. Once we are raised and become young adults, we may find ourselves working while we have no skills or experience. Basically we start at the beginning many times with nothing. It could take years for us to get an education, gain work experience and find gainful employment that pays a living wage. One could work their butt off and not become middle class for 10 years perhaps.

Why do some folks feel entitled to transition into adulthood automatically being middle class? After all many of us were born with a plastic spoon in our mouth not silver.

Oh, I dunno...

Why would those born into a life of privilege and wealth absent any effort or education presume they retain any superior voice of authority or importance?

I honestly have no idea...

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I don't expect you to feel any different, in honesty.

But, your differing opinion doesn't necessarily invalidate the experience3s and perspectives of others.

In my line of work I work with a lot of people who fall into the very category that you and others claim is such a small number. It might be. But when that statistic dictates such costly decisions on every level of government - it's a much larger problem.

It surprises me daily how many people forego opportunity that could, in the long wrong, yield better benefit.

Much of that reason is lack of an understanding of how it will really make things better. My wife comes from poverty (like homelessness poverty) and I had to fight with her tooth and nail to get her to do even simple things that would help us in the future. She didn't believe that things would get better. She had no concept of even being able to THINK that things could get better. Even if you show people the math many times they won't believe you. Its partially societies fault but its also deeper than that.

I don't know what line of work you are in but I do see only a small number of people who refuse to do what they can to make their lives better. Almost always it has to do with drugs.

And even if it only helped 10% of the people wouldn't it be worth it? (thought it would help a much higher percentage than that)

 

[Curious George]

Much of that reason is lack of an understanding of how it will really make things better. My wife comes from poverty (like homelessness poverty) and I had to fight with her tooth and nail to get her to do even simple things that would help us in the future. She didn't believe that things would get better. She had no concept of even being able to THINK that things could get better. Even if you show people the math many times they won't believe you. Its partially societies fault but its also deeper than that.

I don't know what line of work you are in but I do see only a small number of people who refuse to do what they can to make their lives better. Almost always it has to do with drugs.

And even if it only helped 10% of the people wouldn't it be worth it? (thought it would help a much higher percentage than that)

I do not think that comes from poverty, at least the degree of delayed gratification that I perceive from your post. but, I do agree that extreme poverty messes with one's mind. So while poverty may have effected your wife in such a manner, poverty does not effect people uniformly in this regard.

 

[illykitty]

Because it's what our super consumerist, materialistic society puts into people's minds. Easy life, comfort, lots of stuff, unnecessarily big house, better car than your neighbour, etc. How can you expect people growing up in this, being bombarded with this message, to not want the silver spoon right away? All you see on TV is young people living it, so why not me?

BUT I probably have the spectrum opposite opinion, in that I think we have the technology, resources and ability to give everyone a good standard of life... Free from this insanity of a wasteful society. And why shouldn't we expect better from ourselves than this? Is this the best we can do?

Imo, It's not about having a silver spoon, but having a spoon that is available to everyone and doesn't cost the Earth. It's not any "ism" or liberal vs conservative (which are all silly constructs). It's human, wanting happiness and life for all.

Hopefully this was relevant... Regardless of disagreements. I don't wish for a silver spoon, personally. Ever. I don't care about it. I want better (not materialistically).

 

[dawny0826]

Much of that reason is lack of an understanding of how it will really make things better.

Sometimes. And then sometimes there's ample knowledge as to how specific action will improve lives and people don't care.

In my community, those partaking in many welfare programs must participate in educational programs in order to maintain their welfare benefits. Our subsidized housing locally has a built-in educational/developmental component. And participants must work or volunteer their time with a local agency to maintain their benefits.

Some of these folks worked out okay, but most were troublesome. They expected our organization to accommodate them without care as to the purpose that we served in the community and how we needed them to support our cause.
What I've witnessed over the years is a very different type of work ethic that doesn't just come from a lack of education. It comes from a different type of personality - it comes from people who lack respect and struggle with a degree of apathy.

They placed their needs above the needs of the people we served and knew good and well what they were doing because we EDUCATED them on our purpose and it didn't make a difference.

On the service side of things, I can't tell you how many times I've worked with clients and have been floored by the mentality of people in my community who are provided education...BY ME...I'm explaining them how things work and what needs to be done to improve their situation and they don't want to hear it because they are hard wired to want that hand out.

A woman called me the other night requesting a service that she didn't qualify for. And when you deny people service that they expect and hold them accountable to their own choices (which I do all the time in my line of work), their reaction is amazing sometimes. People who CAN do for themselves and rise above challenging situations often forego in favor of what's easier.

The sad truth, these types of people are making it harder for organizations to serve those who really need the support. The greedy hurt those who are genuinely in need of service. I work with a lot of greedy, low income people.

The assistance provided through non-profit channels isn't assistance that people are entitled to. I hear all the freaking time when something challening happens...What are you going to do for me? The sense of entitlement stuns.

It might surprise you as to how many times I've offered to "hand hold" clients, going over and beyond, particularly with those who have functional and access support needs (not of the mental variety) and they still turn down opprotunities to support their longer term circumstances when I've personally bent over backwards to educate and patiently povide the tools and direction to steer towardes more premanent solutions.

At the end of the day, people make choices and through my own experience working with the general public, particularly the low income and elderly during emergency situations - I've found that you can only do but so much through educational efforts.

Our education is free, but, it doesn't come with bells and whistles, so people don't pay attention. A lot of people pay attention when something is "sexy" or after something horrible happens.

You can't force people to wake the hell up. Sometimes, people choose what's easier. A lot of people in pockets of my community opt for easy over smart (and know better) and pay for it dearly when emergency situations occur.

They are fortunate that they have a caring community that responds, of faith-based, non-profit and government partners working together. But, how long can we continue doing the same thing over and over again? Each time, resources dwindle BECAUSE we're responding to the same neighborhoods in response to the SAME events and people KNOW what they need to do and are CHOOSING not to do it.

I don't know what line of work you are in but I do see only a small number of people who refuse to do what they can to make their lives better. Almost always it has to do with drugs.

And is taking up drugs not a choice?

And even if it only helped 10% of the people wouldn't it be worth it? (thought it would help a much higher percentage than that)

Helping people is always worth it, but, I want to be able to choose how I help people. I'm tired of helping people through my paycheck through futile efforts.

I want to invest my money in NGO solutions in my own community. That's where my heart is. That's where I want my money to go.

 

[Magic Man]

It surprises me daily how many people forego opportunity that could, in the long wrong, yield better benefit.

This tends to be the result of poverty. When living in poverty, you're just trying to make it through the day or week. You don't have the luxury of thinking ahead. Poverty can have a lot of negative effects on people, and cause them to think differently than those who don't have the same concerns. Some things might sound perfectly simple and reasonable to those of us who grew up not wanting for anything, but that's because we're thinking about them differently due to our different experiences. It's similar to a battered spouse who doesn't run away. Most of us think "Why didn't she just escape when she had the chance?". It sounds perfectly easy and reasonable, but the victim's mind works differently due to her experiences.

 

[LuisDantas]

I keep being surprised by the society models that some people follow.

Poverty isn't a choice, folks.