Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

[paarsurrey]

I don't read books, I'm an illiterate fool. What have you read about Meher Baba, Baha'ullah, the Ammadiya guy whose name I forget, and all the other some 3000+ messiah claimants in the last few hundred years? Yes, some have written books, and the followers have claimed to have seen miracles, but on the whole it's been one self-proclamation after the other.

But then, what does an illiterate fool have to say about much at all?

"I'm an illiterate fool."

Sir, not need to say such things. You are an educated and learned man.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

What can I say, Jesus and Muhammad did not write down thier Given Revelation from God, but the Bab and Baha'u'llah did, so how is your question at all reasonable?

Does the act of writing make it less of a Revelation?

Regards Tony

Bahaullah should have explicitly mentioned that G-d has conversed with him and told him such and such things.
G-d never conversed with him so he could not say that.
Bahaullah himself crafted the things.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

The topic is why did we not see the Messiah.

If the answer is that it did happen, then there may also be guidance as to what the future holds.

I see we have a great future as a human race, but I do see there will be great change to achieve that future.

I don't make predictions about the future of mankind, as I don't feel I have that ability. It's a futile exercise. But you go ahead.

 

[Vinayaka]

"I'm an illiterate fool."

Sir, not need to say such things. You are an educated and learned man.

Regards

Sarcasm, Paar, sarcasm. When someone speaks down to me in a condescending way, it's one available response.

 

[Vinayaka]

In the olden days of the 70's, I don't remember Baha's referring to Baha'u'llah as "The Father". Where do you get that from?

Among a million (exaggeration for effect, probably closer to 900 000) or so self-aggrandising words and phrases he used, I don't see why this would seem surprising. It seems rather humble to me, compared to several others.

 

[metis]

So, God allows imposters to heal the sick and raise the dead, etc.? All the while fulfilling Messianic prophecies?

Where did I say or imply Jesus was an "imposter"?

 

[Spartan]

Where did I say or imply Jesus was an "imposter"?

You didn't. Just saying I don't believe God would empower an imposter. If Jesus' miracles were real - and multiple individuals attested to them - that gives credence to his legitimacy.

Something for doubters to consider.

 

[Spartan]

Because it says so.

Yeah, it says so in Isaiah chapter 53 - which many rabbis have acknowledged as being Messianic. But like I said, Israel also rebelled against God numerous times with devastating judgments that followed, and they also rejected and killed their own prophets. Why should anyone think they will initially well-receive their own Messiah?

30 years after the fact? A little late don't you think??????

Not at all. Jesus prophesied it. And there are many prophecies in the OT that have taken much longer to fulfill.

 

[Spartan]

I would consider that when the Trinity was added to the Bible by the late 300's an error had started. I see Muhammad came and corrected that error.
Regards Tony

The Trinity is seen in the 1st century New Testament. Others commented on it long before Nicea.

Heck, the plurality of the Godhead is also seen in the Old Testament. Here's a few examples.

Plurality in Personal Pronouns

Plurality in personal pronouns (such as "us" and "our") when used in reference to the Lord, lends additional documentary evidence for the plurality of God. A good case in point is Genesis 1:26:

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
and let him have dominion over the fist of the sea, and over the birds
of the air, and over the livestock, and over all the earth."

Here, we see a conversation that is taking place prior to the creation of man. Who is this person or persons with whom God is conversing? First, this 'person' or 'persons' is able to communicate with God in His own realm of timeless eternity. Because man had not yet been created, He was not speaking to someone of earthly intelligence, but someone in the heavenly, supernatural and eternal realm.

Secondly, this person or persons with whom God is communicating apparently has the same kind of creative ability as God ("Let us make"). This clearly implies a cooperative effort between God (Elohim - plural) and the person or person with whom God is speaking.

And finally, the person or persons with whom God is speaking is comparable, or identical, with God ("Let us make man in our image, after our likeness").

When confronted with this passage, skeptics often claim that God is speaking with angels. However, this explanation fails to address a number of problems. First, there is no indication found anywhere in the Bible that says angels can create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels were ever made in the image and likeness of God. And finally, there is no indication from scripture that mankind was ever made in the likeness of angels.

Just one more example: In Genesis chapter 11, God is looking down at man's attempt to build the Tower of Babel to make a name for themselves. In verse 7 God states:

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand one another."

Once more, the personal pronoun "us" is used as a reference to God. Note that in verse 11:5 it is "the Lord" that is referred to when "us" is later used ("The Lord came down to see the city").

 

[metis]

You didn't. Just saying I don't believe God would empower an imposter. If Jesus' miracles were real - and multiple individuals attested to them - that gives credence to his legitimacy.

Something for doubters to consider.

For what it's worth, I don't consider claims of miracles to be a basis for my beliefs, which is not to say they can't happen. Instead, I look at all scriptural narratives as if they're allegorical, thus looking for what is being taught that may make sense and possibly be applicable today.

 

[firedragon]

There is no error in accepting that Jesus was the Christ. I personally see It is a requirement in life.

The issues most likely set in early starting at Nicaea - First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia

I would consider that when the Trinity was added to the Bible by the late 300's an error had started. I see Muhammad came and corrected that error.

Regards Tony

Can you enlighten me?

1. You say the trinity was added to the Bible by the late 300's or something. Which bible? Whats the quotation or reference? Which passage are you speaking of?

2. What issues "likely set at Nicea" are you referring to?

Peace.

 

[metis]

The Trinity was not added to the Bible but is an interpretation from the Bible of the relationship between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and that interpretation reflects the Greek concept of "essence": Essence - Wikipedia

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahaullah should have explicitly mentioned that G-d has conversed with him and told him such and such things.
G-d never conversed with him so he could not say that.
Bahaullah himself crafted the things.

Regards

Baha'u'llah did mention these things. I provided references and a link.

From there it is your path, your choice as to the justice your heart chooses to pursue.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't make predictions about the future of mankind, as I don't feel I have that ability. It's a futile exercise. But you go ahead.

I would have hoped by now you would know they are not my predictions. I share what I have read.

Thus I share what can be basically found in all the past Holy Writings. The Baha'i writings offer a clearer glimpse of what will unfold in this day.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Trinity is seen in the 1st century New Testament. Others commented on it long before Nicea.

Heck, the plurality of the Godhead is also seen in the Old Testament. Here's a few examples.

Plurality in Personal Pronouns

Plurality in personal pronouns (such as "us" and "our") when used in reference to the Lord, lends additional documentary evidence for the plurality of God. A good case in point is Genesis 1:26:

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
and let him have dominion over the fist of the sea, and over the birds
of the air, and over the livestock, and over all the earth."

Here, we see a conversation that is taking place prior to the creation of man. Who is this person or persons with whom God is conversing? First, this 'person' or 'persons' is able to communicate with God in His own realm of timeless eternity. Because man had not yet been created, He was not speaking to someone of earthly intelligence, but someone in the heavenly, supernatural and eternal realm.

Secondly, this person or persons with whom God is communicating apparently has the same kind of creative ability as God ("Let us make"). This clearly implies a cooperative effort between God (Elohim - plural) and the person or person with whom God is speaking.

And finally, the person or persons with whom God is speaking is comparable, or identical, with God ("Let us make man in our image, after our likeness").

When confronted with this passage, skeptics often claim that God is speaking with angels. However, this explanation fails to address a number of problems. First, there is no indication found anywhere in the Bible that says angels can create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels were ever made in the image and likeness of God. And finally, there is no indication from scripture that mankind was ever made in the likeness of angels.

Just one more example: In Genesis chapter 11, God is looking down at man's attempt to build the Tower of Babel to make a name for themselves. In verse 7 God states:

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand one another."

Once more, the personal pronoun "us" is used as a reference to God. Note that in verse 11:5 it is "the Lord" that is referred to when "us" is later used ("The Lord came down to see the city").

I see that this conversation with God is that of the Holy Spirit, it is All the Names of God who enamate from God. It is from the Holy Spirit, that I see the Human Spirit enemates. That Spirit is known by some as 'Christ' who Jesus was '' 'Annointed' of, born of. This Spirit is all of Gods Messengers and when we see the 'Glory of God' in all those names, the Name of Christ becomes One.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can you enlighten me?

1. You say the trinity was added to the Bible by the late 300's or something. Which bible? Whats the quotation or reference? Which passage are you speaking of?

2. What issues "likely set at Nicea" are you referring to?

Peace.

The issue was setting strict doctrine. It became Heresy not to believe in the formulated doctrines and developed into blasphemy. As such, doctrine became part of the Word one was forced to believe.

All that is easy referenced.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I would have hoped by now you would know they are not my predictions. I share what I have read.

Thus I share what can be basically found in all the past Holy Writings. The Baha'i writings offer a clearer glimpse of what will unfold in this day.

I believe they don't, never have and probably never will. But go ahead, believe it if you will. That's your right. Very different paradigms. I totally accept whatever happens to this planet, still doing my wee part.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe they don't, never have and probably never will. But go ahead, believe it if you will. That's your right. Very different paradigms. I totally accept whatever happens to this planet, still doing my wee part.

That's the way, be as good and as useful as we can.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That's the way, be as good and as useful as we can.

Why (for you) though? Baha'u'llah has already predicted what is going to happen, and well, as you know, he's infallible. How could one person change that? It seems that regardless of what Tony does, the world will end up as Baha'u'llah said it would.

For me, it makes sense to try to make the world a happier place, cause I believe we can change the future.

 

[kjw47]

Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the Old and the New Testament an in all past scriptures?

Baha'is see that it has happened, but not as people have expected.

Maybe that humanity as a whole will now finally understand as to how a Messenger of God, is always rejected?

This is a rewording of another thread in this topic.

The vision for this thread embraces a wider audience, all of Humanity. We also have the Dates of AD1844 and AH1260 as a starting point.

Regards Tony

To tell the truth. The Israelites were apostocised at that time. The Israelite teachers, looked down on the Amharets( Flock) Giving Gods table scraps to them. They lacked-LOVE. They followed the Law but fell short on love. They hated Jesus. A mere carpenters son trying to teach them. And his truths exposed the wickedness of mankind-they did not like it. So they had him killed. Then the apostles were killed( John died natural) then the followers were being killed for sharing the truths Jesus brought, House to house, city to city-Luke 10, Acts 20:20.