Why Did God Create Atheists?

[MikeF]

IMO

Theists and Atheists are also opposites, with the POV of each, sort of against the law of the other. An atheist cannot accept God nor can a theist deny God or they will violate the unwritten laws of their group belief.

I suggest you have set up a false dichotomy here. The first issue is that Atheism, however people erroneously portray it, is not a group belief, for it is not a belief in something. The term only exists in the presence of theistic belief systems. All atheism states is that of all the infinite number of things one considers not to exist or be real, entities described by theistic beliefs would be included in that set of imaginary things not believed in. There is no law, written or unwritten regarding Atheism. It is simply a default class to place anyone who does not hold to any of the untold number of religious belief systems.

Conversely, the theistic position is an affirmative belief in a theistic entity, one of an untold number of such entities who are only classed together upon a small number of criteria, including that that are undetectable and not part of the physical world. In the theistic class, there is no single set of written or unwritten laws, but a whole host of laws specific to each untold number of religious belief systems.

 

[syo]

What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?

Because christians want to ban abortion.

 

[Sheldon]

God did not create atheists, atheists chose to disbelieve in God.

Yeah, I didn't choose to not believe. I did choose to think critically, as objectively as possible and rationally, the result was not a choice.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah, I didn't choose to not believe. I did choose to think critically, as objectively as possible and rationally, the result was not a choice.

You chose to think critically, as objectively as possible and rationally, and the result was a choice not to believe in God.

You could have chosen not to think critically or objectively and rationally, and the result would have been a choice to believe in God.

 

[firedragon]

If one can exercise reason and logic and still be biased, then reason and logic alone are not a shield to bias. You have indicated that research and study are ways to mitigate bias, but how do you know the material you are studying is not biased in some way, or that you are selective in the material in which you study?

Bias is a psychological phenomena that we all exhibit to some extent or another. What is a pernicious attribute of bias is that it has its strongest influence with strongly held beliefs or strongly desired outcomes. If there is a strong emotional component to a belief, the odds are high that bias is present and reason and logic will not be effective.

One can feel that they are being objective, yet subconsciously they will be selective in the information they consider, discount or dismiss information contrary to the belief, or interpret ambiguous information in a way that benefits their belief.

Absent being an outside observer, completely disinterested in any particular outcome, we must have strategies to help identify and guard against any bias we may exhibit.

I am suggesting that relying on reason, logic, research, and study is insufficient to guard against or mitigate bias.

Okay. Thus?

 

[LuisDantas]

If we take for granted that there is some sort of creator god that values belief in its existence (and I want to point out that this is a very reckless and very exotic premise, which I find unlikely in the extreme), the logical reason for it to make atheism possible in the first place is awareness of downsides to theism and the need for people who will help theists find their way when they are misguided.

 

[osgart]

You chose to think critically, as objectively as possible and rationally, and the result was a choice not to believe in God.

You could have chosen not to think critically or objectively and rationally, and the result would have been a choice to believe in God.

Belief was never a matter of choice.

I know some religions feel God is obvious to all and that atheists are suppressing a natural intuition. I can tell you I've never held that intuition the day I found out God is supposed to be omnipotent and exist everywhere. I had a naive God belief when I was a child, but as I learned of many of the gods out there I realized that it was a fantasy tale.

My journey with some of my family's faith in God has been a hard road. But my dominant intuition has mostly been that there's much to discover about reality, and we are all born without any knowing.

I tried to force myself to believe for many years, but the questions piled too high to overcome it. I romanticized what I thought would be the best possible God, and my values of that were far from any scripture.

 

[Trailblazer]

Belief was never a matter of choice.

I know some religions feel God is obvious to all and that atheists are suppressing a natural intuition. I can tell you I've never held that intuition the day I found out God is supposed to be omnipotent and exist everywhere. I had a naive God belief when I was a child, but as I learned of many of the gods out there I realized that it was a fantasy tale.

My journey with some of my family's faith in God has been a hard road. But my dominant intuition has mostly been that there's much to discover about reality, and we are all born without any knowing.

I tried to force myself to believe for many years, but the questions piled too high to overcome it. I romanticized what I thought would be the best possible God, and my values of that were far from any scripture.

When I say "belief is never a matter of choice" I do not mean that the way you think I mean it.
I mean that it is a choice to believe, not that everyone can make that choice.

On the other hand, I do not think everyone makes a choice to believe in God, not if they were raised in a certain religion, as they normally just go along with what they were raised in and that is not really a choice as an adult would make.

As an adult one either sees evidence for God existing or not and if they do they choose to become a believer, but if they don't they will be an atheist. There is also a subcategory of adults who believe without any need for evidence because of some personal experience that had, such as being born again!

I do not think God is obvious to all, in fact God is not obvious at all. I do not believe that God wants to be obvious so we have to search for God if we are interested in finding Him.

No, I don't think there is a natural intuition that causes us to think about God, but from the looks of how many atheists are in this religious forum I think there is a natural curiosity about God. It is human nature to be curious.

I wonder how many people who were not raised in any religion think about God or religion. I never would have even thought about God unless I had stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith as an young adult. Then, after I stumbled upon the faith, I fell flat on my face for quite a long time and later I had my personal issues with God and I still do, although I have no issues with Baha'u'llah and never did, which is why I know God exists, but as you know my issues around God are piled high.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Lol. You think a belief is a bias?

It is when everything tends to be viewed through such (like a rose-tinted window, for example) - as so many religious beliefs tend to cause, and might even instruct. Unless of course you are not fully committed to your religious belief? I think you are the funny one if you can't even see this.

Have you not noticed those on RF who dismiss even the most basic of accepted science simply because they believe some words written long ago in some book? Presumably as a good Muslim you will be accepting of the Qur'an and much else written supporting this, but all this, and conflicting with so many other religious beliefs, is simply correct, but not influencing you at all as to how you see anything else? How on earth to do you manage to do that juggling act?

Or for example, why so many have attitudes to LGBTQ and such, and often coming from some religious text. No bias there?

As I said, religious beliefs are probably the largest bias one can have, given that they often do affect so much of life (some more than others), and so often tending to cause differences with respect to what others believe. Culture and politics too are often large biases but I doubt in the same league as religious beliefs.

Do you believe science is good? Is that a bias? Do you believe language is good? Is that a bias?

I think we are getting in to the fully laughable territory now. Science and language are tools that we humans use. They tend to be neutral, and it is the humans who use them, believing in their truth or usefulness, that might give them some bias - just as humans might with anything we believe or use. And given that usually the religious do use both just as much as the non-religious I can't see why these were brought into any argument, apart from desperation.

Let me tell you what a bias is. Without any research, dismissing other peoples research simply because "he is a theist" is bias. Haha. Your argument is so lame. If someone believes his religion is the ultimate truth, that's bias? Nope. In that case, you have to provide research and study upon study to prove that all are in fact equal and if the claimant has not done any study whatsoever, and even looking at your extensive research, still refuses, then that could be called bias.

When you let go of your fanatical bias, you might understand simple things.

Well professor, since you are incapable of seeing and accepting your own rather large bias, I'll give your words the respect they deserve - as I always have done - and as with so many others on RF no doubt.

PS your demeaning attitude is of course appreciated, given it affects you more than me.

 

[firedragon]

It is when everything tends to be viewed through such (like a rose-tinted window, for example)

Thats what you do mate. So don't mirror yourself on others. Some people do that.

I think we are getting in to the fully laughable territory now.

It's laughable alright. Sure.

Well professor, since you are incapable of seeing and accepting your own rather large bias, I'll give your words the respect they deserve - as I always have done - and as with so many others on RF no doubt.

So you still think that indoctrination is only done by religions and not atheists and atheism? On what basis? Do you have quantitative research? Whats the study? How do you define religious indoctrination and how do you define atheism and its indoctrination? Based on what research are you making such assertions? Whats the sample size and method? What was the hypothesis? How did you build that hypothesis?

You obviously have none of that but you make assertions. So since you have no research, all you can do is preach like in a fundamentalist temple.

).

 

[Mock Turtle]

Thats what you do mate. So don't mirror yourself on others. Some people do that.

Don't talk crap. You filter everything through your religious beliefs. I have no such, hence will likely have fewer biases than you, and I do try to maintain that. Hence why I can never fully commit to one political perspective although tending towards socialism rather than ever being right-leaning. Given a choice of religious perspectives, none make any sense to me (too seeming like the products of man), and hence why I don't accept any of them. As to other biases, well I will try to gather what evidence I can find that is impartial and/or I can understand. If I am not so inquisitive as towards religious beliefs, well perhaps because I believe time is spent more productively elsewhere.

You are committed to a certain faith. That you can't see this as being the source of any bias is your problem not mine.

So you still think that indoctrination is only done by religions and not atheists and atheism? On what basis? Do you have quantitative research? Whats the study? How do you define religious indoctrination and how do you define atheism and its indoctrination? Based on what research are you making such assertions? Whats the sample size and method? What was the hypothesis? How did you build that hypothesis?

You obviously have none of that but you make assertions. So since you have no research, all you can do is preach like in a fundamentalist temple.

Just leave it out - all the - on what basis bla, bla, bla. Just too silly.

Biases can occur in many areas. As I stated, religions are often the most fundamental of beliefs - affecting much of life, and Islam is one especially that does so - so why wouldn't they necessarily affect what one believes as to so many things - and hence producing biases?

You really can ignore all the biases exhibited here on RF and say they don't come ultimately from people having religious beliefs?

 

[firedragon]

Don't talk crap. You filter everything through your religious beliefs. I have no such, hence will likely have fewer biases than you, and I do try to maintain that. Hence why I can never fully commit to one political perspective although tending towards socialism rather than ever being right-leaning. Given a choice of religious perspectives, none make any sense to me (too seeming like the products of man), and hence why I don't accept any of them. As to other biases, well I will try to gather what evidence I can find that is impartial and/or I can understand. If I am not so inquisitive as towards religious beliefs, well perhaps because I believe time is spent more productively elsewhere.

You are committed to a certain faith. That you can't see this as being the source of any bias is your problem not mine.

Just leave it out - all the - on what basis bla, bla, bla. Just too silly.

Biases can occur in many areas. As I stated, religions are often the most fundamental of beliefs - affecting much of life, and Islam is one especially that does so - so why wouldn't they necessarily affect what one believes as to so many things - and hence producing biases?

You really can ignore all the biases exhibited here on RF and say they don't come ultimately from people having religious beliefs?

Thanks for preaching.

No research.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Thanks for preaching.

No research.

You are welcome. Perhaps try some that goes against your beliefs - just so refreshing.

 

[firedragon]

You are welcome. Perhaps try some that goes against your beliefs - just so refreshing.

Thats just irrelevant. Some dogmatic evangelists do that kind of thing.

 

[Sheldon]

Modern atheists often call themselves "animals", because they consider that to be what they are due to their supposed origin.

Animal
noun

1. a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli.

Could you explain which part of the definition of animal doesn't apply to humans?

 

[Sheldon]

Modern atheists often call themselves "animals", because they consider that to be what they are due to their supposed origin.

According to them, animals do not need morality and the law of the jungle is what prevails among animals.

Garbage, you can do better than a straw man this idiotically false surely?

 

[Sheldon]

Is this "animal" thinking superior to the high biblical principles that Jehovah God teaches in his written Word, and that produces such excellent results in, for example, an international community like the Jehovah's Witnesses?

That bunch of nutjobs, you're kidding, they let children die for the want of basic medical attention, based on their subjective interpretation of archaic myths and superstitions.

 

[Sheldon]

All people are born within a family framework.

Nonsense.

It is included in human nature the sense of belonging and the care of a "superior" person (such as an adult or the father or mother of the baby).

So What?

When Jehovah created the first man,

Humans evolved as did all living things, this is an objective scientific fact, get over it.

Thus every adult human being can discern in nature all that the Creator provided for his enjoyment and feel His affection and interest in his human creation.

Rubbish, I don't believe your subjective unevidenced claim.

When I smell a flower, eat a mango or see a sunset, I see the love of my heavenly Father.

He tastes like a mango? This is bananas.

Many people instill it without even being religious, like my parents when they were young and looked at the stars.

What? That's gibberish....

 

[MikeF]

Okay. Thus?

Thus, your advise would be insufficient to counter bias.

 

[firedragon]

Thus, your advise would be insufficient to counter bias.

That's really cute you thinking of coming to someones rescue so passionately. But if you read again, it was not just a cure for bias. more.

Have a great day.