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Are you talking about this?Katzpur said:I responded to both of these questions in my post #127 on August 7. I'm curious as to why you would ask the same question again without first replying to that post.
How could you be sure of this? How could you be so sure that only Jesus Christ (as) was the 'begotten' son of God and all the other sons of God, meant in a different way? I'm confused....Katzpur said:Jesus is the only person to have been called "the only begotten Son of God." All of us are God's children, His sons and daughters, His offspring. He is the Father of the spirits of all of His children, but Jesus Christ was only His Son "in the flesh." They have a true father-son relationship.
"Not mutually exclusive" - Hmmm... How so?Katzpur said:Jesus had many, many titles. He is both the "Son of God" and "Son of Man." These two titles are definitely not mutually exclusive. Jesus is the Son of the archetypal Man, the perfect heavenly Man, the Eternal Father.
Well, welcome to the forum! But one problem that I have understanding is: Is it really a demonstration of the love of God when He sends His only begotten son to the world to be sacrificed when He has the Power to forgive man without the need of such suffering for His Son? It certainly doesn't seem like a congurnt way to show His love. Can you help me understand?carlrave said:Here is what I know, or at least think I do Based on my reading of the scriptures I am so struck by the Love God has for His created. This love, demonstrated by His willingness to send Christ to be the "last sin sacrifice" is astounding to me. Who am I? A belief that Jesus was God incarnate just makes that so much more amazing. If God is indeed love as the Psalms seem to so strongly suggest, then what a more congruent way to demonstrate Love then for God Himself in the form of His Son to make that sacrifice on the cross? Again, faith and experience, play an overwhelming part in the viewing of this. My interpretation of Scripture will always go through this window.
may said:well i suppose it has a lot to do with weather a person wants to believe what the bible states. there are more than enough verses to tell us that Jesus came from above
may said:oh just a thought my name is May not maya
may said:(John 6:33) For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world...........yes this is Jesus and we should feed on him.
may said:also Jehovah God is in heaven as the bible tells us
Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified matthew 6;9
This is what Jehovah has said: "The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where, then, is the house that YOU people can build for me, and where, then, is the place as a resting-place for me?....Isaiah 66;1
(Psalm 11:4) Jehovah is in his holy temple. Jehovahin the heavens is his throne. His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men.
(2 Chronicles 20:6) and he proceeded to say: "O Jehovah the God of our forefathers, are you not God in the heavens, and are you not dominating over all the kingdoms of the nations, and are there not in your hand power and mightiness, with no one to hold his ground against you?
(Psalm 103:19) Jehovah himself has firmly established his throne in the very heavens; And over everything his own kingship has held domination.
(Matthew 23:22) and he that swears by heaven is swearing by the throne of God and by him that is sitting on it.
(Acts 7:49) The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What sort of house will YOU build for me? Jehovah says. Or what is the place for my resting?
(Revelation 4:2) After these things I immediately came to be in [the power of the] spirit: and, look! a throne was in its position in heaven, and there is one seated upon the throne
This came up before but I didn't say anything. If you hadn't realized, the thread was started by a MUSLIM asking Christians to clarify their belief and have a constructive discussion with them. Let me quote it for you:NetDoc said:The thread is WAY rambling... it started out why CHRISTIANS believe, and everyone who is not a Christian seems compelled to answer. Maybe they should start their OWN thread about why they believe, and leave this one for the Christian view point.
Let me repeat: I also don't mean any offence to anyone. I respect everyone and every religion. In fact, I am trying to learn more about Christianity and asking these questions in posts has helped me alot.ahmedhelmy said:Dear all,
Please debate with me, how come christians believe that God is Jesus or even jesus is the son of God. Isnot God created everything and everyone. Then he must be different. He cannot be human. Jesus Have miracles, yes, but all prohphets had miracles too. The miracles werenot because of them, but the miracles were because of God who gave it to them. Also if Jesus is God, How come he is being killed in Christians view. In muslims view, God have honoured Jesus in another miracle and saved him from crossification, until he will come again by the end of the world. Only Mohamed who came after Jesus have cleared this issue. Also, there are 2 bibles which were banned becuase they support the idea that Jesus was Humen being and never being crossifed, even more they support that there will be prohpet after Jesus who is Mohamed.
I donot understand, this is very simple logic. What are the christians logic about that.
I donot mean any offence to anyone. I respect everyone and every Religion, But give me an explainination of that
* The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to God.Katzpur said:Jesus is the only person to have been called "the only begotten Son of God." .
Hi Ahmadi, Thank you for the welcome. Let me see if I can better explain what I meant by this. Let me know if it doesn't answer what you were wondering.Ahmadi said:Well, welcome to the forum! But one problem that I have understanding is: Is it really a demonstration of the love of God when He sends His only begotten son to the world to be sacrificed when He has the Power to forgive man without the need of such suffering for His Son? It certainly doesn't seem like a congurnt way to show His love. Can you help me understand?
And one more thing: I really don't think that this thread is "rambling". Try some other threads and then you will know what "rambling" really is.
Hi The Truth,The Truth said:* The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to God.
1- " Which was the son of Enos, Which was the son of Seth, whicj was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38
2- " That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose."
" ... when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4
3- " ... Thus saith the lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRST BORN." EXODUS 4:22
4- " ... and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN. " JEREMIAH 31:9
( HOW CAN THERE BE TWO "FIRST BORNS" ? )
5- " ... Thou ( O David ) ART MY SON; this day have I BEGOTTEN thee." PSALMS 2:7
( HOW CAN gOD BEGET DAVID AT THE AGE OF FORTY? "This day" ?
6- " For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GODS." ROMANS 8:14
do you still think Jesus was the only begotten Son of God ???
Ahmadi said:I certainly agree that there are more than enough verses telling us that Jesus (as) came from heaven as you have already provided. However, you never responded to my question about Elijah and the prophecy that he will descend from Heaven because he was carried up into heaven in a chariot. I think that Elijah was not taken up into heaven literally and neither did Jesus (as) mean that he came directly from heaven. It was just a prophecy in metaphors, like most prophecies are, and Jesus kept repeating the words of the prophecy, as if in joy over the fulfillment of that prophecy.
Oh, oops, another typo. I sincerely apologize. I would keep that in mind.
You see here the word bread actually refers to Jesus (John 6:35). In the same way, coming down from heaven refers to the prophecy about Elijahs coming down from heaven. Jesus (as) came in fulfillment of that prophecy. (John 6:38).
I dont know why you presented all of these verses. I do accept Jehovah, or God, is in heaven. The only thing that I dispute with is that heaven cant be in a confined place but that is not the subject of this debate. Sometimes, in visions, like in Revelation 4:2, God demonstrates a throne that represents Him but that doesnt mean that there is a heaven up in outer space somewhere or that God is sitting in a throne in outer space .I am not sure whether I am understanding your point accurately
Hi the truth,The Truth said:hi carlrave,
thanks so much for your reply and i really aperciate it but it's really confusing in how we deferntiate only Jesus to be a son and God at the same time and the rest just creatures.
So, how can we be sure the rest who had the name son are not Gods too or that all of them are just creatures.
the question is why Jesus is a son and God at the same time and the others havn't the right to be so?
Baloneyl, I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.may said:THE Bible calls Jesus the "only-begotten Son" of God. (John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) the nicene creed is a manmade creed and not bible based
So Jesus, the only-begotten Son, had a beginning to his life. And Almighty God can rightly be called his Begetter, or Father, in the same sense that an earthly father, like Abraham, begets a son. (Hebrews 11:17) Hence, when the Bible speaks of God as the "Father" of Jesus, it means what it saysthat they are two separate individuals. God is the senior. Jesus is the juniorin time, position, power, and knowledge
the "only-begotten Son," who was the only one directly begotten by God.Colossians 1:15-17that is what the bible teaches ,it does not teach the trinity doctrine
Just because the justice system uses eye witness testonmy does not mean it is good....Joeboonda said:To answer the original question, Jesus himself said he was God, so was he lying, absolutely not. Nor was he delusional as his very character would contradict that. And read the MANY prophecies about him in the old testament, he came to fulfil those, and explained to people that he must suffer and die for the sins of the world. Eyewitnesses, plural, which is a strong criteria in a court of law, saw him crucified, and dead, and ressurected. So I believe them, and NOT Mohammed that came along 600 years later and tried to change the story. Just like he changed Abraham sacrificing (almost) his son Isaac to Ishmael. The dead sea scrolls cleared that one up, thank God. Jesus is God, he is the only way to heaven, he said so, and that's that.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpsoc/lcp/2002/00000007/00000002/art00003Psychology has built the only scientific literature on eyewitness identification and has warned the justice system of problems with eyewitness identification evidence. Recent DNA exoneration cases have corroborated the warnings of eyewitness identification researchers by showing that mistaken eyewitness identification was the largest single factor contributing to the conviction of these innocent people.
I could get more studies that show the same exact things that I listed above. Eyewitness testonmy is krap. =) Ask any respectable psychologist, they will tell you the truth.Results suggest that a simple manipulation by a figure perceived to be in authority can alter the responses of eyewitnesses.
Hi, peace to you and your people. Do you believe the Old Testament is a fague, fake, false Bible, too?ahmedhelmy said:Yes if jesus said so, then he is a lier. As there is only one god and God cannot be humen. Anyway Jesus isnot a lier as he never said so. What you read is the additions made by others in order to make christinaity popular as to make use of the miracles jesus have made through asking God to do them.
Jesus have never said he is god
Jesus Have never been crossfied
There were one lier who said all of these about jesus. He were never been a follower to jesus. He began spread christinity after jesus. Guess who is this lier??????All bibles you believe in are faigue bibles
Hi, Hope you are doing well. I can see how people can be manipulated, but the Bible says 500 saw him after his ressurection at once, that's alot of eyewitnesses. And 2 people is credible in a court of law to convict someone, and a 3 rope cord is very strong or something, lol.Ryan2065 said:Just because the justice system uses eye witness testonmy does not mean it is good....
http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.psych.54.101601.145028?journalCode=psych
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpsoc/lcp/2002/00000007/00000002/art00003
I could get more studies that show the same exact things that I listed above. Eyewitness testonmy is krap. =) Ask any respectable psychologist, they will tell you the truth.
Don't even bring up the prophecies argument again. I read some of the "prophecies" that Jesus supposedly filled. They were so vauge that anyone could have filled them. Also, I suspect that there were many prophecies that Jesus did not fill, its just those prophecies were written off as "wrong" and lost in the sands of time.
The bible says that he appeared in front of 500 and of course the bible has no reason to lie about someone resurrecting or anything. And of course 500 people seeing a dead guy up and walking around is recorded somewhere other than the bible. And I am sure the bible actually gives the eye witness testnomy of each of the 500 people. Maybe you aren't familar with the court systems, but when one has eye witness testonmy, in order for it to be considered in court, one actually has to get the statement of the eye witness. How many "witnesses" were there to the gods of the greeks? I think more than 500. =)joeboonda said:Hi, Hope you are doing well. I can see how people can be manipulated, but the Bible says 500 saw him after his ressurection at once, that's alot of eyewitnesses. And 2 people is credible in a court of law to convict someone, and a 3 rope cord is very strong or something, lol.