Why can't people just leave the Jews alone?

[rosends]

This is why i asked in advance, if 'Yeshua came back fulfilling Messianic prophecy would you accept him'...

You and others all answered, 'no', so considering it's a majority 'no' to accepting Biblical prophecy; what else would you expect someone to understand about your beliefs?

The "no" was based on understanding biblical prophecy. Your insistence that the question is a valid one comes from your refusal to accept biblical prophecy, or at least your simple ignorance of it.

The one where he broke the Abrahmic Covenant by his death, and the 30 pieces of silver were put into the potters-field in the house of Israel?

You have lost me. You asked a question of me and I gave you an answer. Now you add in all sorts of other things. You must not have liked the answer.

 

[Godobeyer]

Except it is not.


This has nothing to do with Takfiri which is about Apostasy.


Second is an American Jew trying to use his Jewishness for his political Ideas.
Which again has nothing to do with Apostasy.

Third is about Socio Economic Problems in Israel.
Which again has nothing to do with Apostasy.


The User in question meanwhile is not Jewish. He/She claims his Jewishness among the same routine like some Christians do to undermine Judaism as a false belief.
His/Her Parents aren't Jewish.
He/She did not convert to Judaism.

Since this person is not Jewish it has nothing to do with Apostasy.


Stay with topics you know something about and not Judaism. Don't try to explain us Jews who or who isn't a Jew, History tells us that people who did that were rarely our friends.

indeed Apostasy (takfir) exist between Jews.

actuatly don't notice that you used apostasy against wizanda , when you said to him "you are not Jewish" ?

First is a Jew who for the second time has attacked homosexuals. His hate is not about Homosexual Jews, but Homosexuals.

this is voilence between Jews

for first man that's is your opinion , i believe he stabb these homosexual because he believe that they apostate . and because homosexual is should be killed (stoned) .

for second American Jew pro-Palestine beaten badly !!!

racist against ethopians , when some "white" Jews treated them as less-Jewish

 

[wizanda]

You only see the parts which fit your vile ideology. And you dismiss and ignore the rest.

Nope, read a lot of it multiple times... Still find more than a bit of it vile.

Your insistence that the question is a valid one comes from your refusal to accept biblical prophecy, or at least your simple ignorance of it.

As far as aware, don't know of holes in the case... Perhaps you could enlighten me, to where you find the errors?

You have lost me.

Yeah thought might do; asked where Yeshua fulfilled prophecy, by giving the divorce decree to Israel, as you claimed to understand the prophecies....

So you don't get it, you declare it to be 'irrelevant', then pretend to be hard done to, when asked to show why.

 

[rosends]

As far as aware, don't know of holes in the case... Perhaps you could enlighten me, to where you find the errors?

Start with any interpretation of prophecy which leads you to think that Jesus/yeshua is a valid subject of said prophecy.

Yeah thought might do; asked where Yeshua fulfilled prophecy, by giving the divorce decree to Israel, as you claimed to understand the prophecies....

First you asked about the presence of divorce in the tanach. Then when shown that a)Jewish thought isn't derived solely from the tanach and b) Jesus found divorce in the tanach, you moved on to your interpretation of prophecy as having to do with Jesus which is, on its face, wrong. Whenever you want to claim you know something, you couch it in bizarre and invented theology and claim that anyone who doesn't accept that position doesn't understand things. And when you are shown to be wrong, or shown to be moving around in discussion because you don't want to deal with anyone who proves you wrong, you keep dancing and bring up some tangential idea and change the context of discussion. Then you stick a little picture at the end, like that means something useful.

 

[wizanda]

First you asked about the presence of divorce in the tanach.

Sorry, was asking from thinking you understood the Biblical prophecy....Zechariah 11 was fulfilled when 30 pieces of silver were placed into the potters-field in the house of Israel....

Thus the two staffs were broken, thus ending the covenant...

Without the protection of the Abrahamic Covenant; we were kicked out into the nations, and disgraced among the Gentiles as prophesied.

Could go into details with the case, just need to ask.

 

[rosends]

Sorry, was asking from thinking you understood the Biblical prophecy....Zechariah 11 was fulfilled when 30 pieces of silver were placed into the potters-field in the house of Israel....

Thus the two staffs were broken, thus ending the covenant...

Without the protection of the Abrahamic Covenant; we were kicked out into the nations, and disgraced among the Gentiles as prophesied.

Could go into details with the case, just need to ask.

Oh, I see -- you are actually believing the gospels and thinking they have any value, then reading into the words of the tanach to justify them. Got it. I could explain more, but this should be enough.

 

[wizanda]

Oh, I see -- you are actually believing the gospels and thinking they have any value, then reading into the words of the tanach to justify them.

Every piece of evidence in a case is worthy of investigation; to ignore evidence would be illogical.

Why would one believe; the mere maths is highly improbable to have happened by chance, sometimes question was it all just made up to fit it so succinctly.

So could explain Christianity from the Tanakh before it happened, as i believe the Essenes possibly understood; where there is a line going back through the prophets explaining it.

Got it. I could explain more, but this should be enough.

You've not managed to explain anything....

 

[rosends]

Every piece of evidence in a case is worthy of investigation; to ignore evidence would be illogical.

Why would one believe; the mere maths is highly improbable to have happened by chance, sometimes question was it all just made up to fit it so succinctly.

So could explain Christianity from the Tanakh before it happened, as i believe the Essenes possibly understood; where there is a line going back through the prophets explaining it.

You've not managed to explain anything....

OK, I'll spell it out. The gospels aren't authoritative or related to the tanach. Finding "fulfillment" of what you think the tanach prophecies are in the gospels is a case of your starting with an idea in mind and reading backwards to find the support you need.

 

[metis]

asked where Yeshua fulfilled prophecy...

Like these:

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance (Isaiah 2:4)

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8–10)

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)

For My House (the Temple in Jerusalem) shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3–7)

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvoth

He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)

Please let us know when these are "fulfilled", eh?

 

[wizanda]

OK, I'll spell it out. The gospels aren't authoritative or related to the tanach.

So since you don't actually understand what is going on; like many others, you've dismissed the whole marvelous case that YHVH has laid before you....

This is what questioning, what if this is the reason the Jews have been persecuted is because YHVH said he would make you ambassadors of his among the nations, where as you can't even be bothered to understand it.

Finding "fulfillment" of what you think the tanach prophecies are in the gospels is a case of your starting with an idea in mind and reading backwards to find the support you need.

Working forward it goes something like this. Can go into loads more detail, if you're interested in learning.

Please let us know when these are "fulfilled", eh?

Really feel for you, you're so consumed by how stupid Christianity is, you've forgotten to investigate what is valid....

So since Paul, John and Simon the stone are the ones claiming he was The Messiah; you've missed that he wasn't claiming that, and then try to make it fit with the Tanakh in some weird methodology....

Same applies to yourself, quit thinking you know everything, and then we can try understanding the prophecies YHVH has put before us in a rational manner.

 

[rosends]

So since you don't actually understand what is going on; like many others, you've dismissed the whole marvelous case that YHVH has laid before you....

Since you have invented a narrative to advocate for, you deny all that is actually reasonable.

This is what questioning, what if this is the reason the Jews have been persecuted is because YHVH said he would make you ambassadors of his among the nations, where as you can't even be bothered to understand it.

And this is how you justify historical hatred. If people don't agree, then others can enact a divine retribution. Well done.

Working forward it goes something like this. Can go into loads more detail, if you're interested in learning.

Your OP on that thread presumes the gospels are valid. Ignoring all the other people who accept the gospels and yet mocked you on that thread, if the gospels are bunk, as I believe, then the ret fails. As I believe. Really feel for you. You are so consumed with this bizarre and personal reading that you have ignored text and what it really means. If you quit thinking you must be right and that you know everything, you might realize that others have a handle on this and your inventions are incorrect.

 

[wizanda]

Since you have invented a narrative to advocate for, you deny all that is actually reasonable.

Completely open to questioning everything again, and willing to go over it with you all....

And this is how you justify historical hatred. If people don't agree, then others can enact a divine retribution. Well done.

This is what YHVH said was going to happen.

At least it proves it is infinite, and YHVH keeps his promises.

Your OP on that thread presumes the gospels are valid.

Based on the evidence it establishes first that the gospel of John is made up, that the writings of Paul are not to be trusted, and that Simon the stone misled everyone....Thus establishing the authors of Christianity are false before you even start.

As for the synoptic gospels, it is debatable what is corrupted within them; yet with 3 testimonies a trial can take place, showing clearly where Paul contradicts, John is made up and Simon was just wrong.... Like YHVH was saying it is a case.

Ignoring all the other people who accept the gospels and yet mocked you on that thread

Considering some have a bias opinion, as they're after the spoils, thus accept the false texts already listed; open to questioning what anyone has to say, yet without clear maths, hardly going to be swayed by beliefs, prefer evidence.

if the gospels are bunk, as I believe, then the ret fails. As I believe.

I'm open to questioning the whole thing could be made up; yet then i've got to take into account the things that have happened, 2nd temple was destroyed, people were chastised among the nations, Christianity exists...

There is a large list of things that can be shown fulfilled; so that makes a far more appealing case, than believing 'they're bunk'.

You are so consumed with this bizarre and personal reading that you have ignored text and what it really means. If you quit thinking you must be right and that you know everything, you might realize that others have a handle on this and your inventions are incorrect.

Not consumed by anything, was sent to inspect the text, found the case to be as expected, bring the case to peoples attention in a world deceived, and many say the deception is authoritative as the academics say so....

Yet still open minded to the possibility of being entirely wrong; yet it would take clear evidence to show it.

 

[rosends]

Not consumed by anything, was sent to inspect the text, found the case to be as expected, bring the case to peoples attention in a world deceived, and many say the deception is authoritative as the academics say so....

Yet still open minded to the possibility of being entirely wrong; yet it would take clear evidence to show it.

You were sent? OK, I'll let that slide. The people's being deceived but you see things the right way? OK, um, no. And you are open minded but need clear evidence? And yet you start by quoting texts and presuming them to be useful and authoritative, so no evidence will suffice. You use as your conclusive proof that the 2nd temple was destroyed. Well, the Judaic texts predict that, so they should be the authority. They don't mention Christianity so either they are wrong (and shouldn't be trusted at all) or Christianity doesn't exist. You can't pick and choose when and where you see texts as proof and yet you have to.

 

[wizanda]

They don't mention Christianity so either they are wrong (and shouldn't be trusted at all) or Christianity doesn't exist.

The Tanakh predicts Christianity; if the book wasn't upside down you might understand it....

See this is another reason for persecution, rather than questioning an argument, most are busy working out ways to accuse every point they can.

You can't pick and choose when and where you see texts as proof and yet you have to.

You can question if evidence is submissible to a trial, based on its authenticity, and things it may add to a case....

Doing so personally would be a bit silly, would prefer to use the evidence; rather than just 'believing something is bunk'.

You use as your conclusive proof that the 2nd temple was destroyed. Well, the Judaic texts predict that, so they should be the authority.

Well since the Tanakh concurs with what Yeshua predicts, would say that was more decisive; than trusting made up Rabbinic literature, that doesn't fit with the Tanakh's expectations.

 

[Flankerl]

Oh rosends you really have too much free time on your hand.

If your better half knew what you were doing here she could rather put you to good work around the house.

 

[rosends]

The Tanakh predicts Christianity; if the book wasn't upside down you might understand it....

You have it wrong. Idolatry DID exist at the time of the tanach, so no prediction was necessary.

See this is another reason for persecution, rather than questioning an argument, most are busy working out ways to accuse every point they can.

Ah, justify persecution again.

Well since the Tanakh concurs with what Yeshua predicts, would say that was more decisive; than trusting made up Rabbinic literature, that doesn't fit with the Tanakh's expectations.

No, the Jesus prophecies were back loaded to look like they concur with the tanach. They are inventions. You reject the rabbinic sources because you don't like them while you don't understand them. That is sad.

 

[rosends]

Oh rosends you really have too much free time on your hand.

If your better half knew what you were doing here she could rather put you to good work around the house.

She knows. It means I leave her alone...

 

[metis]

Really feel for you, you're so consumed by how stupid Christianity is, you've forgotten to investigate what is valid....

So since Paul, John and Simon the stone are the ones claiming he was The Messiah; you've missed that he wasn't claiming that, and then try to make it fit with the Tanakh in some weird methodology....

Same applies to yourself, quit thinking you know everything, and then we can try understanding the prophecies YHVH has put before us in a rational manner.

No, it is I who feel sorry for you because, instead of actually dealing with the messianic prophecies that were posted for you to read and maybe even check up on, the only thing you can do is to insult "the messenger".

Fortunately, most believers of Jesus, in my experience, don't use your disingenuous techniques and amoral approach, and my wife is one of them. If you can't actually deal with what some may post in an honest way, then why even post here? You're your own worst enemy.

 

[wizanda]

You have it wrong. Idolatry DID exist at the time of the tanach, so no prediction was necessary.

Indeed, idolatry has existed throughout; yet that is the whole point in YHVH establishing this marvelous work, to remove all the workers of iniquity in one go.... Yet since you've got no interest, started to realize why Rabbinic Jews are also included.

Ah, justify persecution again.

That is the whole point in the thread, why are Jews persecuted; so trying to justify it is the whole objective of the discussion.

No, the Jesus prophecies were back loaded to look like they concur with the tanach.

If all you ever do is take something at a surface level, then all you will have is a surface understanding...

So when half of your hypothesis rests on falsified texts; sadly your end result will also be flawed.

They are inventions.

Agreed, the gospel of John was made up by the Pharisees, and Paul was clearly a fake Pharisee infiltrator.

You reject the rabbinic sources because you don't like them while you don't understand them. That is sad.

You do have a valid point there, I've not spent ages studying the Rabbinic literature, as everything that has been presented to me so far is bigoted, racist, naive, and clearly doesn't fit with the Tanakh.

 

[rosends]

Indeed, idolatry has existed throughout; yet that is the whole point in YHVH establishing this marvelous work, to remove all the workers of iniquity in one go.... Yet since you've got no interest, started to realize why Rabbinic Jews are also included.

This is ironic since it is coming from someone so quick to embrace idolatry.

That is the whole point in the thread, why are Jews persecuted; so trying to justify it is the whole objective of the discussion.

Actually, the point of the thread is to ask why people can't lust leave Jews alone and you keep providing the answer "because the Jews have to be persecuted." So, facepalm right back at you as you seem fixated on justifying oppression.

If all you ever do is take something at a surface level, then all you will have is a surface understanding...

Exactly your limitation when it comes to all things Jewish. Well stated.

So when half of your hypothesis rests on falsified texts; sadly your end result will also be flawed.

Exactly! This is the problem you create by using the gospels! You even agree with that when you state, "Agreed, the gospel of John was made up by the Pharisees, and Paul was clearly a fake Pharisee infiltrator." If only you could see then, that the entire construct you are using is false so your entire approach fails.

You do have a valid point there, I've not spent ages studying the Rabbinic literature, as everything that has been presented to me so far is bigoted, racist, naive, and clearly doesn't fit with the Tanakh.

So because you don't like what it says, it must be wrong without any study. Well done.