Why Bahai

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks for that.
And so....... moving forward, any information that we discover from mostly any people at mostly any websites is more likely to be honest opinion and genuine writings, simply given by people who no longer believe in Bahai..... and not wicked covenant breakers.

I will be happy to let you know how reliable the source is, if you choose to select material to post in the future.

There is a vast difference between Covenant Breakers and people hostile to the Faith without accepting the station of Baha'u'llah. Also a vast difference as to what material they post.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

No. We had been debating whether or not there were various functions or duties that would be carried out by males on Local and National Spiritual Assemblies/Local and National House of Justices. I had never said I was a Baha’i for 18 years as that wouldn’t have been correct. You can go back and reread the thread if you want.

But moving right along....You have made it clear previously your intentions to use material from Covenant Breakers as part of your critique of the Baha’i Faith. Is that right? From memory its buried somewhere amidst nearly 20,000 posts over one year If true, its entirely your prerogative.

You’ve used material early in this thread from an Islamic anti-Baha’i site. Its a smart move as a Muslim has started a thread enquiring about the Baha’i Faith. He can be directed to what one of his fellow Muslims are saying. Do you feel this would be the most accurate and fair source of information for one who knows little about the Baha’i Faith and is wanting to learn more?

No.
It is not my intention to seek out the opinions of CBs. Only the honest discoveries of ex Bahai's.

Let's face it...... we now can feel reassured by your earlier post that the majority are not CBs

 

[Dawnofhope]

No.
It is not my intention to seek out the opinions of CBs. Only the honest discoveries of ex Bahai's.

Let's face it...... we now can feel reassured by your earlier post that the majority are not CBs

I’m really comfortable with the likes of Juan Cole, Sen M and any other ex-Baha’is you want to read and discuss. Most aren’t CBs.

 

[oldbadger]

You’ve used material early in this thread from an Islamic anti-Baha’i site. Its a smart move as a Muslim has started a thread enquiring about the Baha’i Faith. He can be directed to what one of his fellow Muslims are saying. Do you feel this would be the most accurate and fair source of information for one who knows little about the Baha’i Faith and is wanting to learn more?

Every source of information is worth investigating.
I have found that Baha'i historical accounts can be very one sided and 'dodgy',. and many Baha'i writings seem to have been held back or concealed.

And so, if I would be talking with an interested person about Baha'i I would most definitely be trying to describe what a Baha'i World might look like. For sure.

 

[oldbadger]

I’m really comfortable with the likes of Juan Cole, Sen M and any other ex-Baha’is you want to read and discuss. Most aren’t CBs.

That's cool.
But in future, if any should wave the CB flag over any of my findings I will be more questioning about such responses.

My wife just saw this post in the writing and is giggling herself silly. A very naughty stray cat sneaks in here and does very bad things and my wife calls it CB. But that stands for cheeky bar-steward!

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's cool.
But in future, if any should wave the CB flag over any of my findings I will be more questioning about such responses.

My wife just saw this post in the writing and is giggling herself silly. A very naughty stray cat sneaks in here and does very bad things and my wife calls it CB. But that stands for cheeky bar-steward!

The acronym CB could stand for all manner of things. Sounds a bit dodgy.

You could always post a photo of CB for light relief!

 

[Dawnofhope]

Every source of information is worth investigating.
I have found that Baha'i historical accounts can be very one sided and 'dodgy',. and many Baha'i writings seem to have been held back or concealed.

And so, if I would be talking with an interested person about Baha'i I would most definitely be trying to describe what a Baha'i World might look like. For sure.

Of course. We have a massive amount of material to translate into many languages. The Bab, Bahá’u’lláh, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. There is about 5 - 6 million words for each of the four. The translation into English is particularly important as many other translations are based on the English rather than the Persian or Arabic. So it all takes time along with everything else that’s a priority for the worldwide Baha’i community. So its a nice conspiracy theory that the Universal House of Justice is holding back translating all the nasty stuff.

Anyway the All Blacks vs South Africa World Cup opener as just kicked off.

 

[Vinayaka]

Does anyone here have a link to a covenant breaker site? When I search, it never says that. I'd like to see for myself the difference between Dr. Cole's criticism and that of a Covenant breaker. Currently I can't tell the difference.

 

[firedragon]

Does anyone here have a link to a covenant breaker site? When I search, it never says that. I'd like to see for myself the difference between Dr. Cole's criticism and that of a Covenant breaker. Currently I can't tell the difference.

What is Dr. Cole's criticism? And why the difference between Dr. Cole and this Covenant Breaker? sorry I am unaware of this matter.

 

[Vinayaka]

What is Dr. Cole's criticism? And why the difference between Dr. Cole and this Covenant Breaker? sorry I am unaware of this matter.

You'd have to look him up. He wrote several papers critiquing various aspects, as I recall. One of the papers included how, in his view, Baha'is like to grossly exaggerate their numbers, and showed several examples of that. After more independent research myself, I agreed with his assessment on that matter.

 

[firedragon]

You'd have to look him up. He wrote several papers critiquing various aspects, as I recall. One of the papers included how, in his view, Baha'is like to grossly exaggerate their numbers, and showed several examples of that. After more independent research myself, I agreed with his assessment on that matter.

You mean yuan Cole? The historian?

 

[Vinayaka]

You mean yuan Cole? The historian?

Juan Cole, yes. Here's one paper ... Juan Cole-Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community*

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Every source of information is worth investigating.
I have found that Baha'i historical accounts can be very one sided and 'dodgy',. and many Baha'i writings seem to have been held back or concealed.

And so, if I would be talking with an interested person about Baha'i I would most definitely be trying to describe what a Baha'i World might look like. For sure.

How reliable is a history of a tyrannical governance hell bent on eradicating every trace of a proclaimed new Message from God? Totally unreliable is the answer, as history has proved.

So Who actually gets to tell of the truths from these events. It is eventually the victims that show what really happened.

The most frustrating thing here is, is that people still choose to give any credibility to the tyrants, mostly fake news.

There were few Bab'i that committed crimes in the passion of the times against all advice not to do so. They paid for their crimes. To slaughter and hold many others responsible for their crimes is unlawful and unjust. The courts found they acted by self motivation and exonerated the innocent.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Does anyone here have a link to a covenant breaker site? When I search, it never says that. I'd like to see for myself the difference between Dr. Cole's criticism and that of a Covenant breaker. Currently I can't tell the difference.

This is one, one that first caught me out on the net. The deception will be soon obvious, the aim clear, this is why they are cut from the tree, to wither and die. (Spiritually Speaking)

When you try to post this link it comes up as the official site.

spoiler

This is the official site

The Bahá’í Faith - The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is Dr. Cole's criticism? And why the difference between Dr. Cole and this Covenant Breaker? sorry I am unaware of this matter.

Juan Cole, yes. Here's one paper ... Juan Cole-Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community*

I have not bothered reading these in the past and a quick read confirmed that was a good choice.

The Baha'i Faith strength lays within the power of the Covenant. If one is not prepared to 'submit' to the covenanted process, then one can not see the beauty of that process. Liberals must find it hard to submit to a collective mind.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have not bothered reading these in the past and a quick read confirmed that was a good choice.

The Baha'i Faith strength lays within the power of the Covenant. If one is not prepared to 'submit' to the covenanted process, then one can not see the beauty of that process. Liberals must find it hard to submit to a collective mind.

Regards Tony

An important note to this statement.

If one was a Baha'i then withdrew and makes these comments, to me it is a lack of spiritual or contractual understanding of Baha'u'llah's Covernant. They may have studied it, but they have not submitted to it.

If one was not a Baha'i and makes observations such as this, then that is perfectly fine. They would have yet to study the Covernant and they do not have to choose submission.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

This is one, one that first caught me out on the net. The deception will be soon obvious, the aim clear, this is why they are cut from the tree, to wither and die. (Spiritually Speaking)

When you try to post this link it comes up as the official site.

spoiler

This is the official site

The Bahá’í Faith - The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

Regards Tony

Thanks Tony. I'll read some of it when I get a chance.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have not bothered reading these in the past and a quick read confirmed that was a good choice.

The Baha'i Faith strength lays within the power of the Covenant. If one is not prepared to 'submit' to the covenanted process, then one can not see the beauty of that process. Liberals must find it hard to submit to a collective mind.

Regards Tony

It's in the Bahai' library for all to peruse as they see fit. Nobody is forcing anyone to read his scholarly detailed work.

 

[Vinayaka]

An important note to this statement.

If one was a Baha'i then withdrew and makes these comments, to me it is a lack of spiritual or contractual understanding of Baha'u'llah's Covernant. They may have studied it, but they have not submitted to it.

If one was not a Baha'i and makes observations such as this, then that is perfectly fine. They would have yet to study the Covernant and they do not have to choose submission.

Regards Tony

Some long term Baha'is have withdrawn from the faith, as you know. I'm not all that eager to dismiss anyone of not being serious about stuff. Certainly Dr. Cole was very familiar with the faith, far more than the average Baha'i I think.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Some long term Baha'is have withdrawn from the faith, as you know. I'm not all that eager to dismiss anyone of not being serious about stuff. Certainly Dr. Cole was very familiar with the faith, far more than the average Baha'i I think.

I’m familiar with Juan Cole’s ideas about the Baha’i Faith and have no issue with reading and studying any of his papers to provide a critique. My understanding is he was attracted to the Baha’i Faith because of the values that aligned to Western secular values. He wanted to see the Baha’i Faith move in that direction. However, the Baha’i Faith as we all know is a religion with theocratic elements. His efforts to promote a community more aligned with Western secularism and less religious and theocratic didn’t work out. He became disaffected and left.