Why Bahai

[Dawnofhope]

"Coming of age" - Maturity. Mukaarinun Bisharri Nawu Oklana.

Opium.

These are the verses I keep talking about.

So other than the verse about opium appears absent from the Arabic original what else would you like to discuss?

 

[firedragon]

Of course not. However we are on an English speaking forum discussing religious concepts and ideas in English. Religion needs to adapt to different languages and cultures as culture either embraces or rejects a religion. The Baha’i Faith has progressive values that are easily communicated in word and deed that enables it to blend in harmoniously with Western Culture.

True. But yet again, its just a word. A language. And you cant erase it.

Anyway, this is an absurd discussion about language brother. Useless. Your book says God, it says Hypocrite, the same old Arabic words Allah and Nafaka. And there's nothing much to it and there is no need to have this exchange.

Peace.

 

[firedragon]

So other than the verse about opium appears absent from the Arabic original what else would you like to discuss?

You didn't provide a response to it. Take it as an academic exercise.

But thats your prerogative. Thanks for your replies.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You didn't provide a response to it. Take it as an academic exercise.

But thats your prerogative. Thanks for your replies.

I’m not able to answer your question as you know full well I don’t speak Arabic. I don’t think we’re understanding each other. Sorry if I’ve contributed to that.

As an aside anyone can contact Baha’i institutions (you don’t have to be a Baha’i) to ask questions.

Contact Information | The Bahá’í Faith

Kind Regards
Adrian

 

[firedragon]

I’m not able to answer your question as you know full well I don’t speak Arabic. I don’t think we’re understanding each other. Sorry if I’ve contributed to that.

As an aside anyone can contact Baha’i institutions (you don’t have to be a Baha’i) to ask questions.

Contact Information | The Bahá’í Faith

Kind Regards
Adrian

Oh thats great. Thanks.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you follow an idea or directive from the Bahai"authorities" if the words and intent of the idea the present goes against your innate and learned sense of morality? Is there a limit to your subservience?

I have yet to understand what Bahai believe as far as these religious laws for this time and age or how exactly they are new and improved.

Can you please name and explain ten of these new updated laws that, if we all ditch our own beliefs and voluntairliy follow the The Prophet in the future, will save all of us animals?

If this is too many questions to answer in one post, please feel free to use as many pages as necessary. Thanks.

It is up to each of us to discover and I see that does not need pages of explanation. All the Laws are available, all the writings are available.

I see they are your choice to pursue if you wish to know the answer to why Baha'i.

I see each Messenger offers a progressive level of Salvation in turning to the Laws and ordinances given by God in each age.

Christ said it this way;

Hebrews 9:28 "so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."

Regards Tony

 

[Muffled]

Actually the believers of every religion believe the same. It is also is relevant as how a religion relates to the scripture of other religions. It is more common for ancient religions to dismiss the scripture of other religions, and co-opt older religions.

I believe then that you believe Jesus physically rose from the dead. And you believe Jesus is God incarnate.

 

[Muffled]

They also claim jesus too. What do you have to say about that brother?

I believe they believe in a watered down useless Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

I meant to say that the bahai faith to me is a philosophy. Not to the bahais. Of course not. Maybe I didnt word it right.

I also understand that bahaullah is not God himself but a manifestation.

And I tried to clarify from you what is meant by the phrase "akram rasool" in the kithab I akdhas. I did not get a response to that.

Not to offend you but I found that there are a lot of schism in the bahai scholarship about jesus and the so called older sacred text. In one of your links i read that the kathamun nabiyyin is Muhammed, but bahaullah is a rasool. Another respondent here denied that although your own source said that.

Anyway this thread was meant to understand your faith. Not to rebut it. One must understand a faith to rebut it. But I see a lot of people here refuting without even understanding it.

Thanks for your response. We will learn more.

I believe that is exactly what it is.

 

[oldbadger]

This process is documented and is all part of the Covenant given by Baha'u'llah, no whim needed.

You are offering argument out of total ignorance of that covenanted process.

I can give you the details, but I am confident OB can now help you, he was a detective, a seeker after the truth in all matters. @oldbadger

Have a great day Regards Tony

Speak for yourself, not for me.
I'll be the one to tell which truths I seek, and not you.

You tell us that the haircut law is not in place yet. Can we see where Bahauallah has told you this?
Of course, if you can't, then we will be copying you and be ticking the funny boxes and laughing at such shallowness.

Or are you cherry-picking the bits you like, just as @Aupmanyav seems to suugest?

 

[oldbadger]

The Universal House of Justice chooses which laws to enact and when.

That is what is so dangerous about it all.
There is no clear direction that Bahai will keep to, then.
Bahai can decide that right is left, or up is down.

Who can trust that?

But so long as the World knows about this things and stays clear, then, fine...... no risk at all.

Carry on.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It could be the details are lost as many tablets were stolen by the covenant breakers.

That is something new and useful when the Bahais and House of Justice have to change something - nice argument. Just like the way Mohammad used the word 'abrogation' - 'Oh, Allah changed his mind. That verse is abrogated (and replaced by this verse'). Does Allah not have the freedom to change his mind?

Perhaps that is why Allah had to send Mirza Ghulam Ahmad so soon after Bahaullah - because 'the tablets were lost' or perhaps some message to Bahaullah has been abrogated and replaced by something new. So, Bahaullah's message is incomplete and Mirza's message is complete. There are claims for being Jesus/mahdi even after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, even in the two decades of 21st Century.

 

[oldbadger]

It appears it concerns you for some reason?

I personally will embrace any direction on this law that the Universal House of Justice may give in the future, as may your great grandchildren, but no one that is not a Baha'i needs to give it a second thought.

And so long as the World rejects Bahai as a World management system then you and/or yours can carry on..... and we'll feel a lot safer.

What I want to know is...... why haven't you all been following Bahauallah's commands for the last 170 years?

Folks don't have to be trained 'tecs to see through the waffle.

I personally wanted to many years ago, but I could not find any details, none have been given, it's not a priority I would suggest, the future may be different. There has been on the net lots of speculation, but no details. It could be the details are lost as many tablets were stolen by the covenant breakers.

I just added to the speculation for you.

That makes it s clear as I can, surely you can let it go now OB and @Aupmanyav

Have a great and happy day, regards Tony

Would you?
If you perceived see that a religion was an oppressive theocracy selling itself to the World, would you sit back and say nothing?

You keep ticking the funny boxes, and have a great day.

 

[oldbadger]

That is something new and useful when the Bahais and House of Justice have to change something - nice argument. Just like the way Mohammad used the word 'abrogation'.

That's the danger.
Folks can declare for such a religion in the belief that it follows one course, and then it just turns round and follows another, and who knows where........

And when it falls to the Bahai leavers to show Bahai truths, which they often do, then the words 'Bahai Covenant Breaker' actually can become a dignified and respectable title.

 

[firedragon]

I believe they believe in a watered down useless Jesus.

So whats the standard you are setting?

The believe in Jesus and Muhammed both.

Do you approach both the same way or are you bias?

For Muhammed, you spoke of Dan Gibson and the Kibla (Which is completely irrelevant), and Holland with his coin theory which has been proven absurd, and Crone who's views she has herself changed since hagarism, but for Jesus you go with your personal bias.

How about the Buddha, Krishna, Husain, etc etc. Why have you only picked Muhammed to build a straw man argument about an irrelevant Kibla?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Speak for yourself, not for me.
I'll be the one to tell which truths I seek, and not you.

You tell us that the haircut law is not in place yet. Can we see where Bahauallah has told you this?
Of course, if you can't, then we will be copying you and be ticking the funny boxes and laughing at such shallowness.

Or are you cherry-picking the bits you like, just as @Aupmanyav seems to suugest?

I will let you seek the answers alluded to above OB, that way you can determine what you need to know to fulfil the intent raised in that post.

I am happy you see the potential of the laws to embrace a wider audience and at the same time you appear to be upset about an issue that may never have any thing to do with you or anyone that is not a Baha'i.

I have given the appropriate advice and will not post another lengthy explanation.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is something new and useful when the Bahais and House of Justice have to change something - nice argument. Just like the way Mohammad used the word 'abrogation' - 'Oh, Allah changed his mind. That verse is abrogated (and replaced by this verse'). Does Allah not have the freedom to change his mind?

Perhaps that is why Allah had to send Mirza Ghulam Ahmad so soon after Bahaullah - because 'the tablets were lost' or perhaps some message to Bahaullah has been abrogated and replaced by something new. So, Bahaullah's message is incomplete and Mirza's message is complete. There are claims for being Jesus/mahdi even after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, even in the two decades of 21st Century.

It was fact that many writings have been lost. It was speculation as to if that will have some impact on the law.

The advice given about the law was trueful and trustworthy.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And so long as the World rejects Bahai as a World management system then you and/or yours can carry on..... and we'll feel a lot safer.

That is an incorrect view of how the Baha'i Administrative order operates.

All the argument offered is based on that incorrect view.

As this has been explained, it is time to leave it alone and let others make up their own minds.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's the danger.
Folks can declare for such a religion in the belief that it follows one course, and then it just turns round and follows another, and who knows where........

And when it falls to the Bahai leavers to show Bahai truths, which they often do, then the words 'Bahai Covenant Breaker' actually can become a dignified and respectable title.

That is simply not true. I’m reasonably certain you know those who choose to leave the Baha’i faith are not called covenant breakers. People are free to join or leave the Baha’i Faith as they please. If they leave, Baha’is are completely free to associate with them regardless of whether or not they criticise their former faith. Covenant breaking is an entirely different matter.

 

[oldbadger]

I am happy you see the potential of the laws to embrace a wider audience and at the same time you appear to be upset about an issue that may never have any thing to do with you or anyone that is not a Baha'i.

Regards Tony

And again, that is not true.
In a Bahai World, where a majority of folks had become Bahais, then Bahai Laws, controls etc would apply.

If you cannot see that then you do not know about Bahai.

That's what Bahai is all about.

Look to the end-goals to see the read religion. Until then Bahai legislation cannot operate, unless you actually believe that Bahai can execute certain criminals or operate its other laws whilst in a minority.

Which part of that are you having difficulty with?