Who Or What Is Israel?

[YoursTrue]

There is no contradiction with believing God created everything, and accepting evolution. Like I said, evolution is God's MO.

But then there's the Bible which says that "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." So in part that already sounds like a conflict, doesn't it? And what I find fascinating is why anyone of any religion would observe certain customs as if they were bound to the Bible and then say nah, they don't believe in creation by God as written. So that leads me to ask -- what parts of the Bible does such a person believe in other than "love your neighbor as yoiurself," and "Love God." Which God? Any God?

Maimonides is interesting for many reasons. This includes the fact that even though he lived in the 12th century, he did not take the Genesis creation account literally, but viewed it philosophically. In his work "Guide for the Perplexed" he proposed that Genesis creation should be read as a form of allegory, revealing deeper philosophical truths. This helped make Jewish understanding more accepting of science, while preserving the religious significance of the account.

Don't forget, as smart as he was, he also believed in the coming resurrection of the dead. Right?

 

[YoursTrue]

It takes more than that. Becoming a Jew does involve taking on the Law, but it also requires a lengthy period of study of Jewish culture, history, the Hebrew language, etc. At the end of the study period, the individual is tested by a Jewish tribunal. If they pass, they immerse in a mikvah. THEN they are a Jew/Hebrew/Israelite.

I have no problems with that you are a Christian Gnostic. But that is quite different from being a Jew. If it brings you closer to God and helps you to be a better person to observe the Law, then I support you. But it is not obligatory for you in the same way that it is for me.

What parts of the "Law" would a person observe, since you say study of Jewish beliefs could help bring a person be better by observing the Law. Which law?

 

[shunyadragon]

What parts of the "Law" would a person observe, since you say study of Jewish beliefs could help bring a person be better by observing the Law. Which law?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/halakha-law#:~:text=Judaism%20is%20based%20on%20the,traditional%20Jewish%20law%20and%20practice.

There is not literally one law but belief in God the giver of Laws that is the foundation of Jewish observance of Biblical and traditional beliefs and laws. You cannot speak for the Jews concerning what parts of the law Jews should observe.

Judaism is based on the Torah, which can have a narrower or a wider sense. According to the former, it consists of the five books of Moses, the first five books of the Bible, but it is also used to refer to the whole of the Hebrew Bible, or even the whole of traditional Jewish law and practice. It is a product of the covenant of God with Israel, revealed to Moses during the wanderings of the Israelites in the desert after the escape from Egypt.

In different times and places the Torah has been reinterpreted by religious authorities to show the relevance of past insights to current issues, but according to the traditionalists the basic meaning of the text is unchanging and cannot be altered to take account of different circumstances. Jews who are not traditionalists are prepared to accept that quite radical changes in Jewish practice are appropriate in certain circumstances, and they would regard human reason itself as an important criterion of which changes are permissible and which are not to the understanding of the implications of Torah.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But then there's the Bible which says that "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." So in part that already sounds like a conflict, doesn't it?

No. Why do you think that?

And what I find fascinating is why anyone of any religion would observe certain customs as if they were bound to the Bible and then say nah, they don't believe in creation by God as written.

Because we accept the authority of the Bible via our common consent. I have stated this before.

So that leads me to ask -- what parts of the Bible does such a person believe in other than "love your neighbor as yoiurself," and "Love God." Which God? Any God?

I've answered this question many times. I think I've come to the conclusion that you simply don't read my replies. This is hardly the first time you have repeated a question that I have answered more than once.

I do not expect you to agree with me, but I DO expect you to listen to what I say so that you understand me, and then accept that these are the things *I* believe. To pretend to have a conversation with me, when in fact you are not bothering to try to listen and understand what I'm saying, is just incredibly rude.

Don't forget, as smart as he was, he also believed in the coming resurrection of the dead. Right?

Yes. But that is an entirely different topic. Let's try to stay focused.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What parts of the "Law" would a person observe, since you say study of Jewish beliefs could help bring a person be better by observing the Law. Which law?

I find this question disingenuous. You can't think of one single law that helps you become a better person? Yeah right. Please ask about things that you don't already know the answer to.

 

[metis]

One of my first laughs today. So when millions are killed in war, would you say it's to make room for others?

If nothing ever died, what would out planet look like after thousands or millions of years?

We have to make room for others or all would starve to death after a while.

 

[Revoltingest]

If nothing ever died, what would out planet look like after thousands and millions of years?

We have to make room for others, or all would starve to death after a while.

You believe that death has a purpose?
IOW that it's not merely a consequence of
biological factors, eg, telomere shortening?
That sounds very biblical....is that what
you're getting at?

 

[2ndpillar]

Every instance that you obey any law, you are keeping the commandments. It's really not about perfection. It's about direction. Hey that rhymes!

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again

Do you fathom the significance of that verse? It says two things. First, that the righteous are NOT perfect, that they fall, and more than once. But what distinguishes them from the wicked is that they "rise again." IOW repent.

So there are PLENTY of Jews that are righteous.

I have fallen many times, but the reason was for not paying attention to where I was going. As for "repent", that means to change one's way, which is to say, not sin again. If one is "righteous" and sins, commits wickedness/lawlessness, his righteousness will be forgotten, and he will die (Ezekiel 18:21-24)
Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

 

[2ndpillar]

If nothing ever died, what would out planet look like after thousands or millions of years?

We have to make room for others or all would starve to death after a while.

Well, China did a one child only experiment, and they are now predicted to die out as an economy within this century. A Japanese study says their actual population is now in the 900,000 range, not 1.4 billion. The poor country of India has surpassed their population. The U.S. birth rate is less than the death rate. How do you see that play out once immigration is fixed by Donald Trump. Apparently, the way to kill people is giving them a higher living standard. The Germans tried to shoot, burn, and bury the Jews, but look at the news, and they are still here. Cage the Palestinians in a confined space, and they breed like rabbits, and your representatives send them enough food to keep them producing nothing but weapons, and the kids are trained to shoot and burn more Jews. The key is judgment (Joel 3:1-8), whereas those who captured Israelis, and sold them into bondage, are bound to be captured and sold into slavery.
King James Bible Joel 3:8
And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[2ndpillar]

Every instance that you obey any law, you are keeping the commandments. It's really not about perfection. It's about direction. Hey that rhymes!

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again

Do you fathom the significance of that verse? It says two things. First, that the righteous are NOT perfect, that they fall, and more than once. But what distinguishes them from the wicked is that they "rise again." IOW repent.

So there are PLENTY of Jews that are righteous.

Not that I'm aware of. In my experience, with very few exceptions, Christians make no effort to obey the Law. They teach that Jesus "fulfilled the law" and interpret that to mean he abrogated the law (despite Jesus saying the exact opposite. They eat bacon and mow their lawn on Saturday and have no idea when Yom Kippur is.

Actually, you had plenty of refugees from the Northern Kingdom who fled south to Judah. There is plenty of archaeological evidence that proves this in fact. So basically, when the Kingdom of Judah went into the Babylonian Captivity, it included people from ALLLLLL the tribes, and in Babylon they were ALLLLLLL called Jews. Thus Hebrew=Israelite=Jew

Yeah, that works when you forget about all the prophets and the Law. Ezekiel 36 & 37 have Ephraim and Judah separated until they are both gathered out of the nations/Gentiles, united, and put back on the land given to Jacob under the leadership of king David. Judah hasn't been back on the land given to Jacob until the early 20th century, and they surely don't have a king named David. Both Judah and Ephraim remain under the hand of judgment until they confess their sins, and at that time they will be healed, after two days (2000 years). (Hosea 5 & 6) Until then, you will have to keep your Gentile doctor's appointment. At that time per Ez 37:24, Israel, as in the house of Israel/Jacob, which includes Judah, will keep My statutes, and observe them walk in My Ordinances.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yeah, that works when you forget about all the prophets and the Law. Ezekiel 36 & 37 have Ephraim and Judah separated until they are both gathered out of the nations/Gentiles, united, and put back on the land given to Jacob under the leadership of king David. Judah hasn't been back on the land given to Jacob until the early 20th century, and they surely don't have a king named David. Both Judah and Ephraim remain under the hand of judgment until they confess their sins, and at that time they will be healed, after two days (2000 years). (Hosea 5 & 6) Until then, you will have to keep your Gentile doctor's appointment. At that time per Ez 37:24, Israel, as in the house of Israel/Jacob, which includes Judah, will keep My statutes, and observe them walk in My Ordinances.

I've really grown impatient with your nonsense about Jewish doctors and Gentile doctors. It really is not important what ethnicity the doctor is. The only thing that matters is if they are qualified to be a doctor. If you want to have the last word on this, it's fine. But I will not be replying further

 

[2ndpillar]

I've really grown impatient with your nonsense about Jewish doctors and Gentile doctors. It really is not important what ethnicity the doctor is. The only thing that matters is if they are qualified to be a doctor. If you want to have the last word on this, it's fine. But I will not be replying further

Whether Gentile or Jewish, you apparently have to keep going back. According to the Torah, that does not put you nor your "shepherds" (Ez 34), in a good light. You seem to be sharing space with the Gentiles and their "plagues" (Rev 18:4). As for "doctors" being qualified, keep in mind that the AMA is an offshoot of daddy Rockefeller's humble start as a snake oil salesman, which progressed into the oil and then pharmaceutical business.

 

[Revoltingest]

Until then, you will have to keep your Gentile doctor's appointment.

I've never asked any of my doctors
what their religion is. Do you do this?
Is it commonly done? Or can you tell their
religion by their name or appearance?
Dang...I've been doing it all wrong all
these years!

 

[Elihoenai]

It takes more than that. Becoming a Jew does involve taking on the Law, but it also requires a lengthy period of study of Jewish culture, history, the Hebrew language, etc. At the end of the study period, the individual is tested by a Jewish tribunal. If they pass, they immerse in a mikvah. THEN they are a Jew/Hebrew/Israelite.

It sounds intensive. Mikvah is like Christian Water Baptism, is it not?

I have no problems with that you are a Christian Gnostic. But that is quite different from being a Jew. If it brings you closer to God and helps you to be a better person to observe the Law, then I support you. But it is not obligatory for you in the same way that it is for me.

Christian Gnostics Become Spiritual Jews/Israel through Observing the Law of Moses. For Christian Gnostics the Law of Moses is Obligatory. The Law of Moses is the first stage of our Spiritual Journey.

 

[Elihoenai]

never was a requirement…

Romans 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Celibacy is not a requirement for you. How can you be Conformed to the Image of the Son of Elohim/God without being Celibate?

Look at Cornelius in Acts 10 - and then tell me...

Is John the Baptist Water Baptism a Requirement to get Anointed?

Nice statement… but no support.

Matthew 13:13

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

1 Corinthians 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


There is a Veil over the Holy Scriptures as Yeshua/Jesus and Paul taught.

What the Bible says about Gnosticism

When the apostle John wrote his first epistle near the end of the first century, the Gnostic philosophy had swept through the Roman world and had …

www.bibletools.org

Galatians 5:17

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


The Primacy of Christian Gnosticism is Dualism. Dualism is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. The Great War between Elohim/God and Devil/Satan. The Great Battle between Good and Evil. The Great Conflict between the Spirit and the Flesh.

You are in a Fleshly War Against the Spirit while saying that you are Supernatural. For example, having Recreational Sex, Eating anything you want, Taking Drugs and Drinking Alcohol is Fleshly War Against the Spirit. I assume you are doing these Carnal things listed.


Doubt (4/10) Movie CLIP - Supper Time (2008) HD

 

[Revoltingest]

What is Israel?

According to the BBC this morning, 1,000,000
Palestinians are facing starvation in Gaza.
Half are children, 1/2 of whom are suffering
acute malnutrition (per The BBC).

Israel is a country that does such things.
Israel is a country that denies what it does.

It all sounds very familiar.

 

[Kenny]

Romans 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Celibacy is not a requirement for you. How can you be Conformed to the Image of the Son of Elohim/God without being Celibate?

Very religious - traditions of men that makes God’s word of none effect

The image is spiritual. Jesus always says what the Father says and the law of first says “Be fruitful and multiply” and not “be celibate”. Jesus never told His disciples to be celibate.

Is John the Baptist Water Baptism a Requirement to get Anointed?

No - Acts 10 & 19.

Cornelius was never baptized in John’s baptism (although repentance is part of the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus - but it is not ‘John’s baptism”.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Matthew 13:13

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

1 Corinthians 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


There is a Veil over the Holy Scriptures as Yeshua/Jesus and Paul taught.

I agree with these scriptures.

Galatians 5:17

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


The Primacy of Christian Gnosticism is Dualism. Dualism is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. The Great War between Elohim/God and Devil/Satan. The Great Battle between Good and Evil. The Great Conflict between the Spirit and the Flesh.

You are in a Fleshly War Against the Spirit while saying that you are Supernatural. For example, having Recreational Sex, Eating anything you want, Taking Drugs and Drinking Alcohol is Fleshly War Against the Spirit. I assume you are doing these Carnal things listed.


Doubt (4/10) Movie CLIP - Supper Time (2008) HD

Again, scriptures denounce gnosticism. Now, if you want to follow a different gospel, you are a free-will spiritual agent.

That being said, “Be not drunk with wine wherein is excess but be filled with the Holy Spirit”

and not “be ye celibate"

however,

if you want to… feel free to be celibate. God has not problem with your decision if you do it in faith and as unto God. Rom 14

 

[2ndpillar]

I've never asked any of my doctors
what their religion is. Do you do this?
Is it commonly done? Or can you tell their
religion by their name or appearance?
Dang...I've been doing it all wrong all
these years!

Apart from my dentist, who is a woman, and who is outwardly "Christian", I have had no doctors for the past 30+years. I have schooled my dentist as to the errors of Christianity, but she still is happy to see me. Her office generally pulls their files after around 10 years of nonuse, but in my case, she retains my file past that time period in case I might come in. I try to avoid sugar or corn syrup, but it is found in almost everything. My teeth are in excellent shape, but I do have a couple of ceramic fillings. After Har-Magedon, and I have to live off my garden, the amount of sugar I use will probably fall off a cliff. But for yourself, you are free to keep referring to the AMA and Pharma for your health advice. Pharma apparently needs the funds to further bribe Congress and the health system in the form of payments to Fauci and his comrades.

 

[Revoltingest]

Apart from my dentist, who is a woman, and who is outwardly "Christian", I have no doctors for the last 50+ years since I have first read the bible.

My dentists are outwardly human.
No religion offered. None asked.

I have schooled her as to the errors of Christianity, but she still is happy to see me.

Never "school" someone with sharp
implements that will enter your body.
Every see the movie "Marathon Man"?

Spoiler: Not for the squeamish.

 

[2ndpillar]

My dentists are outwardly human.
No religion offered. None asked.

When a person/"human" is outwardly "Christian", you don't have to ask. Her whole office seems to be "Christian" and go with her to South America to fix the teeth of the poor every year. Sorry that your dental health is to the point of having to have "dentists" rather than having a dentist.