Who Or What Is Israel?

[IndigoChild5559]

For the reason that no one can perfectly keep the law, that is why animal sacrifices were designated by God. And of course, you have the Day of Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement.

Sin offerings were for unintentional sins. Read Leviticus 4-5. The passage on sin offerings begins with the words 1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally"

Consider that when Nathan confronted David, and David proclaimed "I have sinned," did Nathan say "quick, let's go to the temple and make a sacrifice"??? Nope. Nathan says, "The LORD has removed your sin." Without any sacrifice at all.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sin offerings were for unintentional sins. Read Leviticus 4-5. The passage on sin offerings begins with the words 1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally"

Consider that when Nathan confronted David, and David proclaimed "I have sinned," did Nathan say "quick, let's go to the temple and make a sacrifice"??? Nope. Nathan says, "The LORD has removed your sin." Without any sacrifice at all.

Please explain if on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) were all the Jews supposed to participate, and by that I mean fast? Because you make it seem that some are without sin.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sin offerings were for unintentional sins. Read Leviticus 4-5. The passage on sin offerings begins with the words 1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally"

Consider that when Nathan confronted David, and David proclaimed "I have sinned," did Nathan say "quick, let's go to the temple and make a sacrifice"??? Nope. Nathan says, "The LORD has removed your sin." Without any sacrifice at all.

That's right. Yet once a year there was a sin offering at the temple for all. Not just for some, right?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Elohim's/God's Healing is Entirely Conditional on Keeping Elohim's/God's Commandments as Instructed in Exodus 15:26. The Billions that are Sick is Manifestation/Evidence of Rejection of Elohim's/God's Commandments.

The Beast is Born Sick/Sinners from the Womb and Must Return to Elohim/God for Healing. The Practitioners of Judaism have Rejected Adam's Inherited Sickness, so you won't be able to see this and get Healed.

Really? Then why are people who keep the commandments suffering illness, natural disasters, etc?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Please explain if on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) were all the Jews supposed to participate, and by that I mean fast? Because you make it seem that some are without sin.

The Day of Atonement is not an individual sacrifice. It is a communal thing, for the sins of all Israel. If you read our liturgy, you will notice our confession is we we we. We PREPARE for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur with private repentance for our personal sins, going to those we have wronged and trying to make things right with them. None of that individual stuff includes sacrifice.

Are some without sin? Yes. I think there are Jews who are raised absolutely immersed in Torah keeping highly religious groups, who go their whole lives without sinning. Is this common? No, but it happens. Noah was called righteous. Job was called perfect.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Day of Atonement is not an individual sacrifice. It is a communal thing, for the sins of all Israel. If you read our liturgy, you will notice our confession is we we we. We PREPARE for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur with private repentance for our personal sins, going to those we have wronged and trying to make things right with them. None of that individual stuff includes sacrifice.

Are some without sin? Yes. I think there are Jews who are raised absolutely immersed in Torah keeping highly religious groups, who go their whole lives without sinning. Is this common? No, but it happens. Noah was called righteous. Job was called perfect.

That is your opinion, of course. The question is, why do we all die? That's the primary question.
Do you believe that Noah existed as written? How about Job?

 

[YoursTrue]

Really? Then why are people who keep the commandments suffering illness, natural disasters, etc?

What's your opinion about that?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is your opinion, of course. The question is, why do we all die? That's the primary question.

Because part of life is death. Since life began on this planet some 3.7 billion years ago, all life has died. You might say that constant renewal is what makes life life.

Do you believe that Noah existed as written? How about Job?

No and no. The flood is a myth borrowed from Sumer, that may originally be based on a local flood, but the story has changed significantly over the years. Job is a morality play -- it was designed to be fiction, no different than watching a Star Trek episode today.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Day of Atonement is not an individual sacrifice. It is a communal thing, for the sins of all Israel. If you read our liturgy, you will notice our confession is we we we. We PREPARE for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur with private repentance for our personal sins, going to those we have wronged and trying to make things right with them. None of that individual stuff includes sacrifice.

Are some without sin? Yes. I think there are Jews who are raised absolutely immersed in Torah keeping highly religious groups, who go their whole lives without sinning. Is this common? No, but it happens. Noah was called righteous. Job was called perfect.

Didn't you say you don't believe Noah existed as written, so anything ascribed to him is also a myth to you. In other words, doesn't exist. Have a good one. Unfortunately what you say doesn't make sense. It's sad. Because the morality play you believe in is proof to you that Job was without sin, right? And he died because that's evolution, right? Sad.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because part of life is death. Since life began on this planet some 3.7 billion years ago, all life has died. You might say that constant renewal is what makes life life.

No and no. The flood is a myth borrowed from Sumer, that may originally be based on a local flood, but the story has changed significantly over the years. Job is a morality play -- it was designed to be fiction, no different than watching a Star Trek episode today.

It's sad that some actually think this way. I realize you're trying to be logical but then that type of thinking is not making sense. It's either one or the other. You can't have the Bible, life, death and evolution on the same logical thought plane, unless as you say, the Bible is fiction. Or...a morality story. To be shaped according to whim. Thank you for expressing yourself.

 

[metis]

The question is, why do we all die?

Because we have to make room for others.

 

[metis]

Because part of life is death. Since life began on this planet some 3.7 billion years ago, all life has died. You might say that constant renewal is what makes life life.

No and no. The flood is a myth borrowed from Sumer, that may originally be based on a local flood, but the story has changed significantly over the years. Job is a morality play -- it was designed to be fiction, no different than watching a Star Trek episode today.

I agree. The idea of God and haSatan gambling on whether Job would keep the faith by infecting him with all sorts of maladies makes no sense to me at the literal level.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I You can't have the Bible, life, death and evolution on the same logical thought plane, unless as you say, the Bible is fiction.

There is no conflict between valuing the Bible and valuing science and reason. The first is meant for inspiration, to draw you closer to God and assist you to become a better person. The latter are to reveal facts about the universe.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Didn't you say you don't believe Noah existed as written, so anything ascribed to him is also a myth to you. In other words, doesn't exist. Have a good one. Unfortunately what you say doesn't make sense. It's sad. Because the morality play you believe in is proof to you that Job was without sin, right? And he died because that's evolution, right? Sad.

Sure, the story does say Job was perfect. But no, he is not a literal person, so it would be like saying that Harry Potter is a wizard. Job never lived, and so never died. But every single person who has ever existed, as well as all other life going back 3.7 billion years, have ALL died. It is not "because" of evolution, although the fact that some die before having the opportunity to procreate is what drives evolution. It is "because" life constantly renews; the old passes away and new life is born.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because we have to make room for others.

One of my first laughs today.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because we have to make room for others.

One of my first laughs today. So when millions are killed in war, would you say it's to make room for others?

 

[YoursTrue]

So then can you a

Sure, the story does say Job was perfect. But no, he is not a literal person, so it would be like saying that Harry Potter is a wizard. Job never lived, and so never died. But every single person who has ever existed, as well as all other life going back 3.7 billion years, have ALL died. It is not "because" of evolution, although the fact that some die before having the opportunity to procreate is what drives evolution. It is "because" life constantly renews; the old passes away and new life is born.

So please answer two questions for me and they may be the last questions I ask. The first is why do we die? And the second is do you believe in God?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So then can you a

So please answer two questions for me and they may be the last questions I ask. The first is why do we die?

I have just answered that in full. Are you not reading my posts? My answer has clearly been that we die because it is the nature of life to renew. I think you need to scroll back and read my previous answers.

And the second is do you believe in God?

Yes, I believe in God. I am an agnostic theist. You have asked this before, and I answered you fully. You said you intended to reply, but not that day. When several days went by and you did not reply, I sent you a post asking you if you still intended to reply, and copied that post into the new post so that it would be convenient for you. I am seriously wondering if you always read my posts. At any rate, I will now copy/paste and give you my reply a THIRD time. Please do reply to it.

***** pasting from the Four Dirty Secrets thread, post 633:

First, I don't KNOW for SURE that there is a God. God is a belief I have. Not knowledge. God can be neither proven nor disproven.

In the absence of any actual evidence one way or the other, what am I to do? Clearly I have to make some kind of choice, to either live my life as though God exists or to live it as though he does not. In such a case, I choose to go with my intuition.

Intuition is not the same as evidence. It works well enough that it increases our survival. But intuition is often wrong.

When I look at the awe of nature, I am really really moved. I contemplate the stars. I look up to the distant top of a sequoia tree. I give birth to a baby. And every fiber of my being shouts "God." For me, the design implies a designer. I INTUIT agency behind the universe, and I intuit it very strongly.

But I am simultaneously aware of just how often humans intuit agency when no agency is present.

Think of being out in the woods and a bush rustles. You think "wild animal!" and run away. Now let's say your intuition was incorrect, and it was just a branch falling. NO HARM DONE. But what about the flip? What if there were a rustling in the bushes, and you said to yourself, "Don't overreact, it's nothing" and it was in fact a wild beast? Well, you'd be toast.

So I have a very healthy respect for intuition. I just don't confuse it with evidence. If I had actual evidence that contradicted my intuition, I would go with the evidence. But I don't. So I feel free to let my intuition do its thing.

This is a form of what is called "Agnostic Theism."

 

[Cordelro]

Genesis 32:28

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.



Does Genetics Only Determine Who Israel Is?

Do you Beleive that there is a Spiritual Israel?

Do you agree that Elohim/God has Ordained Spiritual Israel and Fleshly Israel?

What does it mean to have the Israeli Trait of Power With Elohim/God and With Men?​

According to the Bible, there are two different Israel (Gal 4:25-26). One is the old Israel, which is Judaism, and the other is the new Israel, which is Christianity. According to the Bible, Christianity is the true spiritual Israel (Gal 6:16). Christians are described as the true spiritual Jews (Rom 2:28-29) and as the true spiritual descendants of Abraham (Gal 3:28-29). According to Jesus, Christians are the new spiritual people of God who have replaced the old Israel (Matt 21:43).

Justin Martyr: "For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

According to the Bible, there are two different Israel (Gal 4:25-26). One is the old Israel, which is Judaism, and the other is the new Israel, which is Christianity.

LOL Typical replacement theology. Fortunately, after the holocaust, almost all Christian churches repudiated this doctrine.

How do you like it when Islam claims to have superseded Christianity?