Who Or What Is Israel?

[Revoltingest]

Not really as it is non-judgmental towards other religions.

This is countered by The Jewish State's
treatment of non-Jews, especially Muslims.
Religions are what its adherents do,
not what they say or believe.

 

[2ndpillar]

How you got from point a to point b is only known to you.

Well, apparently you have rejected the baptism that Yeshua took, and replaced it with the baptism used by the false prophet Paul. Did Paul's baptism include repentance, the imagery of washing away sins, the baptism by fire and Spirit, and the production of good fruit? Together with the "stumbling blocks" produced by Peter (Satan) (Mt 16:23) and the lawlessness of Paul, with respect to his false gospel of grace/lawlessness, you seem to be stumbling among the reeds.

 

[Kenny]

Well, apparently you have rejected the baptism that Yeshua took, and replaced it with the baptism used by the false prophet Paul.

Please give me scripture or a letter by the apostles or the fore-fathers that declare that Paul was a false prophet. My scriptures don’t tell me that.

Did Paul's baptism include repentance,

Yes

the imagery of washing away sins,

yes

the baptism by fire and Spirit,

yes

and the production of good fruit?

Yes

 

[metis]

It's not just about religion though right?
Don't people presume at least a shared experience/history being Jewish?

Certainly.

 

[Elihoenai]

It's just normal water, but it has to come from a flowing source like a spring or stream or rain water. As for added substances, while it is unlawful to add anything that changes the clearness or color of the water, it is permissible to add things like clear chlorine in order to keep bacteria from forming.

Therefore, how can Immersion in normal Pure Water make you clean? People wash with water every day or several times a week. Are those people Ritually Clean for doing so?

No offense but that's just outrageously funny. Catholics tried to kill us for 2000 years.

No jokes are being made. The Roman Catholic Church, far from trying, have successfully Killed Off the Real Israel/Jews for 2000 years by using those leaders Claiming to be Israel/Jews. The same way the Roman Catholic Church has Successfully Killed Off the Real Christians for 2000 years by using those leaders Claiming to be Christians.

Pope meets with delegation of Chief Rabbinate of Israel

Yes, it was pretty obvious that this is pretty specifically your thing, not Christian Gnosticism. You are essentially creating your own new special religion. Yes, your new religion is inspired in many ways by Gnosticism, but you definitely have additional beliefs that don't line up with Christian Gnosticism. Your religion seems to be a syncretistic combination of Christian Gnosticism and Hebrew Roots.

What you see is what you see. It's the Original Teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ that the Roman Catholic Church destroyed.

No, in YOUR religion that is believed. It is not a belief held by Christian Gnosticism.

Nor is it true. But I'm sure I will not be able to convince you. In my experience, imposters to being Jews have a deep jealousy of Jews, and cannot accept the fact that 1.they are not Jews and 2. that being Gentile is no shame. Righteous Gentiles have a share in the world to come, same as Jews. There is nothing second class about being a Gentile. You really are fine.

It's the Complete Christian Gnosticism that Yeshua/Jesus Christ taught Without the Falsehoods.

There is Nothing to be Jealous of the Jews about because those claiming to be Jews are doing the Total Opposite of what Elohim/God wants. There would be Rightful Jealousy if those claiming to be Israel/Jews were obeying Elohim/God. As Elohim/God speaking through Albert Einstein said, Jews don't look any different from Gentiles.

 

[Elihoenai]

Yes. Of course that was before the land was cursed and before the mist was lifted.

The land is still cursed and the watering mist is still gone so...

Gen 9: 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green vegetables and plants, I give you everything.

When God speaks, opinions cease

Therefore, you are saying you don't want to give up Meat.

The Baptism of John was to prepare the way for Jesus and he was speaking to the Jews. Now that Jesus has finished the work, we baptize into the baptism of Jesus.

Acts 8:16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them, but they had only been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Cornelius in Acts 10 was not baptized in the baptism of John.

Are you saying that the Water Baptism of John was for Jews and not for Christians?

Can you give me a scripture please?

Can you give me a scripture please?

I provided definitions of what Recreation Sex and Drug Taking is. By those Definitions you are having Recreational Sex and Taking Drugs. Everybody knows what Recreational Sex and Drug Taking is.

Still sounds like the doctrine of devils:

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Romans 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


It sounds like you are Inverted Cross Practitioner that cannot learn from your Moral Superior. You are calling me the Devil/Satan when I'm a Monk that is Celibate, Vegan, Free From Drugs and Free From Alcohol while you are having Recreational Sex, Eating Meat, Taking Drugs and Drinking Alcohol. With the Carnal Mind you have you have never Really been Faithful to your Wife because the Carnal Man cannot stop lusting after other Women. You are Child of the Devil/Satan Knowingly or Unknowingly in a War Against Elohim/God.

 

[Elihoenai]

First of all, Elohim is Not God's name. God's name is as presented by the Tetragrammaton letters YHWH.
The killing of Isaac was showing faith and trust in a physical resurrection.
( All the resurrections Jesus performed with physical resurrections )
Remember God (YHWH)'s promise to Abraham and Sarah at Genesis 17:7,15-16, 21.
ALL nations would be blessed through Abraham - Genesis 18:18
By the time of Gen. 22:5 (before verse 10) we read about the confidence in a physical resurrection.
In verse 5 Abraham says, " I and the lad.... " (meaning Isaac) will come again (return) to you. (KJV)
In order for unmarried Isaac to have children Isaac would have to be alive / living.
Thus, they both (Abe and Isaac) believed in a future resurrection - Acts 24:15

John 4:24

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Romans 3:4

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


Elohim is the Hebrew for God. I always use Elohim/God to show affinity with both Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Kenny]

Therefore, you are saying you don't want to give up Meat.

I’m just saying that I believe the words that God spoke. Are you saying you don’t believe what God said?

On a side note, when I do a Daniel fast, I don’t eat meat.

I certainly don’t follow the doctrines of devils.

Are you saying that the Water Baptism of John was for Jews and not for Christians?

I think a better question is, “Is there another baptism in water that is not the baptism of John?

Acts 10:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

I provided definitions of what Recreation Sex and Drug Taking is. By those Definitions you are having Recreational Sex and Taking Drugs. Everybody knows what Recreational Sex and Drug Taking is.

Yes… you defined but I asked your scriptural reference to “recreational sex”. I don’t want opinions.

Romans 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I agree with this scripture

It sounds like you are Inverted Cross Practitioner that cannot learn from your Moral Superior. You are calling me the Devil/Satan when I'm a Monk that is Celibate, Vegan, Free From Drugs and Free From Alcohol while you are having Recreational Sex, Eating Meat, Taking Drugs and Drinking Alcohol. With the Carnal Mind you have you have never Really been Faithful to your Wife because the Carnal Man cannot stop lusting after other Women. You are Child of the Devil/Satan in a War Against Elohim/God.

No… it sounds like you are offering the doctrine of devils by forbidding marriage and not eating of meats.

 

[Elihoenai]

Israel is a ideology created to unite certain people.
Unfortunately it also divides those same people from others.

Leviticus 20:24

24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the Lord your God, which have separated you from other people.


Elohim's/God's Intention is To Unite Israel in One Body Separating them from the Gentiles/Others. Elohim/God puts Difference between Israel and the Gentiles. The Purpose of Israel is Separation.

 

[Elihoenai]

I’m just saying that I believe the words that God spoke. Are you saying you don’t believe what God said?

On a side note, when I do a Daniel fast, I don’t eat meat.

I certainly don’t follow the doctrines of devils.

It is the Doctrine of Devils if you only do a Temporary Daniel Fast. My Daniel Fast is Permanent Never Ever to return to Meat eating.

I think a better question is, “Is there another baptism in water that is not the baptism of John?

Acts 10:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

This is a Mystery between Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, John the Baptist and Moses. You won't understand because you are seeing Carnally and it appears your are not that versed in the Old Testament/Hebrew Scriptures. Eyes Wide Shut is From the Womb.

Eyes Wide Shut (1999) Official Trailer - Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman Movie HD

Yes… you defined but I asked your scriptural reference to “recreational sex”. I don’t want opinions.

Ezekiel 23:1-3

23 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.


When you have Sex with your Wife for Carnal Pleasure/Recreational Sex Without the Intention to Procreate your Wife Becomes a Prostitute. Prostitutes provide Sexual Pleasure/Recreational Sex service for their customers. It is Sexual Immorality.

No… it sounds like you are offering the doctrine of devils by forbidding marriage and not eating of meats.

Elohim/God determines what people See and Hear. What you See and Hear Determines whether Elohim/God will Save you or Not.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Therefore, how can Immersion in normal Pure Water make you clean? People wash with water every day or several times a week. Are those people Ritually Clean for doing so?

Are they Jewish? and are they immersing with the intent to restore ritual purity? Was it in a mikvah? No and No and No. So have they achieved ritual purity? No.

The Roman Catholic Church, far from trying, have successfully Killed Off the Real Israel/Jews for 2000 years by using those leaders Claiming to be Israel/Jews.

"Real Jews" are those born of a Jewish mom or who have made a formal conversion to Judaism. And yes, the Catholic church persecuted us for 2000 years. It was only after the holocaust that it opened up dialogue with us.

The dialogues that take place today are part of the Catholic repentance of its past violence towards Jews. It's goals are:
1. To better understand the People of Israel, and in what ways the Catholic church may have a connection to Jews and Judaism.
1. To cooperate in joint efforts of charity

There is no intent either among Catholics or Jews to destroy any other religion.

What you see is what you see. It's the Original Teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ that the Roman Catholic Church destroyed.

I don't think there is ANY Christian church that exists today that is completely like the early Church in the Bible. However, I would say the Catholics and Orthodox are closest, as both of those Churches can trace their origins back in a straight line to the proto-orthodoxy of Paul.

As for the Gnosticism that you like so much, the proto-orthodox church fought it tooth and nail. So before you slam Catholics, you need to take a good hard look at yourself.

It's the Complete Christian Gnosticism that Yeshua/Jesus Christ taught Without the Falsehoods.

Nope, it is your new syncretistic religion. Christian Gnosticism does not obey the laws of the Torah.

There is Nothing to be Jealous of the Jews

Then stop being an imposter.

 

[Elihoenai]

Are they Jewish? and are they immersing with the intent to restore ritual purity? Was it in a mikvah? No and No and No. So have they achieved ritual purity? No.

Therefore, it is the Intentionality of the Immersion that is the important element. You can be just Immersing for a public show without any Real Intentionality.

"Real Jews" are those born of a Jewish mom or who have made a formal conversion to Judaism. And yes, the Catholic church persecuted us for 2000 years. It was only after the holocaust that it opened up dialogue with us.

The dialogues that take place today are part of the Catholic repentance of its past violence towards Jews. It's goals are:
1. To better understand the People of Israel, and in what ways the Catholic church may have a connection to Jews and Judaism.
1. To cooperate in joint efforts of charity

There is no intent either among Catholics or Jews to destroy any other religion.

John 8:31-32

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


None of this propaganda has any influence on those that know the Truth. What you wrote are Fairy Tales. It's all about Perspective. From what Elohim/God has shown me in the Holy Scriptures the Roman Catholic Church and those claiming to be Israel are in a Total War Against Elohim/God and the Children of Elohim/God.

From your perspective you are Totally Invested in what you say is your Jewish Heritage.

I don't think there is ANY Christian church that exists today that is completely like the early Church in the Bible. However, I would say the Catholics and Orthodox are closest, as both of those Churches can trace their origins back in a straight line to the proto-orthodoxy of Paul.

As for the Gnosticism that you like so much, the proto-orthodox church fought it tooth and nail. So before you slam Catholics, you need to take a good hard look at yourself.

Matthew 7:16

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


The Roman Catholic Church Kills Off Real Christians by Violence and Monopolising Bible Interpretation. The Roman Catholic Church kills Off Christian Gnostics that have the teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. The Roman Catholic Church has an Inquisition against what they call Heretics ongoing for over 2000 years.

By their Fruits you shall know them, yet the Power and Genius of Catholicism is making people believe they are Serving Elohim/God when it's the Devil/Satan they Serve. What is Popular among the Masses Worships the Satan/Devil.


This is the fruitage of the Catholic church - Jordan Maxwell

Elohim/God has provided people with ample evidence throughout the generations of Violence, Pedophilia, Rape and the like and yet people fail to heed the warnings because of their Sinful Separation from Elohim/God.

Nope, it is your new syncretistic religion. Christian Gnosticism does not obey the laws of the Torah.

That's your opinion and I won't try to convince you otherwise.

Then stop being an imposter.

You are the Imposter since you are not obeying the Law of Moses. Moses is an Ascetic.

Not that it matters to Christian Gnostics, also you cannot prove Israel Genetic Heritage. Those claiming to be Israel do so by persuasion without evidence. Genetics has nothing to do with the Identity of Israel. Israel is brought into Existence through Total Obedience to the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel and you are doing the Total Opposite of what the Elohim/God of Israel wants, therefore. you are Not Israel/Jews.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Therefore, it is the Intentionality of the Immersion that is the important element. You can be just Immersing for a public show without any Real Intentionality.

No, intention alone is not enough. Again, I gave three criteria:
1. They must be a Jew, meaning born of a Jewish mother or being a formal convert into the People of Israel.
2. They just be intending to do this for ritual purity, not any other reason.
3. It must be a proper mikvah, meaning it uses living waters that come from a natural, flowing source such as rain or a spring. It must be enough water to entirely cover the body of an average size person, which is about 150 gallons. It cannot be made with any products that violate ritual purity, and so its construction requires rabbinical supervision. It cannot be polluted with anything that compromises its purity, such as food coloring.

John 8:31-32

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

A disciple is not the same thing as a Jew. A Jew CAN be someone's disciple. A Gentile CAN be someone's disciple.

The Roman Catholic Church Kills Off Real Christians by Violence and Monopolising Bible Interpretation.

You are speaking in the present tense, and that makes it a lie. The Catholic Church doesn't go around killing ANYONE these days. Also, "monopolisng Bible interpretation is not the same as killing someone. They have as much right as you or I to interpret their Bible.

The Roman Catholic Church kills Off Christian Gnostics

Gnostic Christians are a thing of the past, and the Catholic church is completely unconcerned with any of the rare people who claim to be Chrsitain Gnostics. Again your claim that they kill people is a lie, and documents your irrational hatred.

You are the Imposter since you are not obeying the Law of Moses. Moses is an Ascetic.

Moses stopped having sex with his wife for a while. He was taken to task for doing this -- it's wrong.

I aspire to keep all of the 613 laws of the Torah which apply to me, as understood via Oral Torah.

Not that it matters to Christian Gnostics, also you cannot prove Israel Genetic Heritage.

Again, a Jew/Israelite/Hebrew is anyone born of a Jewish mother or any convert to Judaism. I am halakhically Jewish.

You on the other hand, are NOT. You are an imposter.

 

[metis]

Therefore, it is the Intentionality of the Immersion that is the important element. You can be just Immersing for a public show without any Real Intentionality.










John 8:31-32

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


None of this propaganda has any influence on those that know the Truth. What you wrote are Fairy Tales. It's all about Perspective. From what Elohim/God has shown me in the Holy Scriptures the Roman Catholic Church and those claiming to be Israel are in a Total War Against Elohim/God and the Children of Elohim/God.

From your perspective you are Totally Invested in what you say is your Jewish Heritage.












Matthew 7:16

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


The Roman Catholic Church Kills Off Real Christians by Violence and Monopolising Bible Interpretation. The Roman Catholic Church kills Off Christian Gnostics that have the teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. The Roman Catholic Church has an Inquisition against what they call Heretics ongoing for over 2000 years.

By their Fruits you shall know them, yet the Power and Genius of Catholicism is making people believe they are Serving Elohim/God when it's the Devil/Satan they Serve. What is Popular among the Masses Worships the Satan/Devil.


This is the fruitage of the Catholic church - Jordan Maxwell

Elohim/God has provided people with ample evidence throughout the generations of Violence, Pedophilia, Rape and the like and yet people fail to heed the warnings because of their Sinful Separation from Elohim/God.













That's your opinion and I won't try to convince you otherwise.













You are the Imposter since you are not obeying the Law of Moses. Moses is an Ascetic.

Not that it matters to Christian Gnostics, also you cannot prove Israel Genetic Heritage. Those claiming to be Israel do so by persuasion without evidence. Genetics has nothing to do with the Identity of Israel. Israel is brought into Existence through Total Obedience to the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel and you are doing the Total Opposite of what the Elohim/God of Israel wants, therefore. you are Not Israel/Jews.

^^Religious bigotry at its "finest".^^

 

[Elihoenai]

^^Religious bigotry at its "finest".^^

Thank you for the Compliment.

 

[metis]

^^Religious bigotry at its "finest".^^

Thank you for the Compliment.

Well, I guess you at least admit it, so there is at least a tad of morality in your posts.

 

[Revoltingest]

^^Religious bigotry at its "finest".^^

 

[Elihoenai]

1 Corinthians 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Israel Climbs Elohim's/God's Ladder to Heaven. Israel is Brought Into Existence and Identified by the Journey to Heaven. Any Religion Not Climbing Elohim's/God's Heaven Ladder is the Lying Religion of the Devil/Satan.

Elohim's/God's Ladder:
Flesh->Soul->Spirit

 

[metis]

1 Corinthians 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Israel Climbs Elohim's/God's Ladder to Heaven. Israel is Brought Into Existence and Identified by the Journey to Heaven. Any Religion Not Climbing Elohim's/God's Heaven Ladder is the Lying Religion of the Devil/Satan.

Elohim's/God's Ladder:
Flesh->Soul->Spirit

...IYO.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You might want to read this: NAMES OF GOD - Complete list from Hebrew and the Bible

The Tetragrammaton YHWH is what stands for God's personal Name.
The rest are titles and Not God's personal biblical name.
For example Psalm 110 KJV mentions two (2) LORD/ Lords. ( No name mentioned )
One LORD, in all Upper-Case letters, because the Tetragrammaton stands there.
The other Lord, in some lower-case letters, stands for Lord Jesus and Not LORD God (YHWH)
The Hebrew at Psalm 110 has HASHEM to David's master ( aka Lord Jesus )