Who is Jesus?

[joeboonda]

Good for you! I'm glad you're happy with the truth you've found. But others have found other truths and different ways.

Thanks, I am happy with it. I understand others have found 'other truths and different ways', and although Jesus said HE is the way, I respect their right to believe in whatever they wish and wish them well.

 

[Green Gaia]

I respect their right to believe in whatever they wish and wish them well.

Obviously you don't or you wouldn't be here trying to undermine their beliefs and convert them to yours. But I will try to take you at your word and wish you wish, as well.

 

[Squirt]

Who Jesus was/is is central to salvation - taught by the Bible that is. The point is simply that if Mormanism did teach Jesus to be everything the Bible teaches, then on this key issue, what is the point of Mormanism?

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ formally organized a Church while on this earth. We believe that that Church fell into Apostasy, as the Apostles predicted would be the case. We also believe that it was restored to the earth, as was also prophesied and exists today as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

It profits a man absolutely nothing since the Bible already explains how to be saved, because of who Jesus was and what he accomplished as a result.

So why would you object to another confirming witness to these same truths?

Therefore - in order for someone to adhere to the Book of Mormanism, it must offer them some other explanation of who Jesus was, than the Bible did, or what Jesus accomplished as a direct result of who he was. If it did not, then there is no point in having the book of Mormanism - it profits a man absolutely nothing, for a man already knows everything he needs to know about Jesus from the Bible.

What's the point of Mark's gospel account? We already have John's. Why bother reading Luke or Matthew? The Book of Mormon exists for the sole purpose of convincing the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ. It is another witness to the truths taught in the Bible. If you feel there is nothing more for you to learn about Jesus Christ than what is found within the pages of the Bible, I'm very happy for you. I personally want to take advantage of all the knowledge there is out there.

That is the only point i'm getting across. Who Jesus was is central to salvation - he was the atoning sacrifice, God and the author of our faith.

That's great to hear. That's what we believe, too.

By the way, in spite of how crabby I may seem today, I really am kind of glad than joeboonda started this thread. From my perspective, the forum has been pretty boring lately. Now at least I have something to look forward to when I sign on. Gotta love that free advertising! :bounce

 

[joeboonda]

Obviously you don't or you wouldn't be here trying to undermine their beliefs and convert them to yours. But I will try to take you at your word and wish you wish, as well.

I have great respect for the Momons and love them dearly. I am not trying to 'undermine' anyone's beliefs, I just want us to all get as close to the truth as we can, as I believe there is a such thing as the truth, and therefore there is false also. That is all, just trying to get to the Truth about Jesus. I think we all believe pretty close, and that can be good or bad, as it gets harder to recognize the false when people believe and use the same terminology as each other. Mormonism and Mainstream Christianity are so close on many doctrines, yet differ on certain points, that it is always confusing and can cause friction trying to understand and sort these things out.

 

[SoyLeche]

By the way, in spite of how crabby I may seem today, I really am kind of glad than joeboonda started this thread. From my perspective, the forum has been pretty boring lately. Now at least I have something to look forward to when I sign on. Gotta love that free advertising! :bounce

I agree - nothing like a good attempt at Mormon bashing to get the blood flowing Knockout

 

[Bishka]

Mormonism and Mainstream Christianity are so close on many doctrines, yet differ on certain points, that it is always confusing and can cause friction trying to understand and sort these things out.

It doesn't confuse us, we know what we are talking about. Unforutnatley you've done this countless times. I've just read this thread shaking my head. I don't even want to get into this, because you assume that you know more then all of us on a subject that you actually don't know much about. We are members of our Church, we know our doctrine. It's not like another 'wonderful' memeber of the forum has called us blind sheep and that our leaders are lying to us. Lying to us about what? They teach doctrine. *SIgh* Anyways, sorry, I'm just getting sick and tired of people telling me they know more about my Church then I do.

 

[joeboonda]

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ formally organized a Church while on this earth. We believe that that Church fell into Apostasy, as the Apostles predicted would be the case. We also believe that it was restored to the earth, as was also prophesied and exists today as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Not for this thread, but, is it not strange that at a time when the church was absolutely flourishing after the Reformation, the Rennaissance and the Enlightenment and the gospel was being preached like never before, it is said to have been in apostasy? I see more apostasy now, imo.

 

[SoyLeche]

Not for this thread, but, is it not strange that at a time when the church was absolutely flourishing after the Inquisition, Reformation, the Rennaissance and the Enlightenment and the gospel was being preached like never before, it is said to have been in apostasy? I see more apostasy now, imo.

I fixed your quote

 

[Squirt]

I fixed your quote

Hey, SoyLeche! Funny huh, why a Reformation would have even been necessary had an Apostasy not taken place. I mean why did Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc. even bother if the Church was exactly as Christ had left it?

 

[Quiddity]

Hey, SoyLeche! Funny huh, why a Reformation would have even been necessary had an Apostasy not taken place. I mean why did Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc. even bother if the Church was exactly as Christ had left it?

For the same reason Mr. Smith started a knew movement.

 

[joeboonda]

It doesn't confuse us, we know what we are talking about. Unforutnatley you've done this countless times. I've just read this thread shaking my head. I don't even want to get into this, because you assume that you know more then all of us on a subject that you actually don't know much about. We are members of our Church, we know our doctrine. It's not like another 'wonderful' memeber of the forum has called us blind sheep and that our leaders are lying to us. Lying to us about what? They teach doctrine. *SIgh* Anyways, sorry, I'm just getting sick and tired of people telling me they know more about my Church then I do.

I agree, I am not confused as to what I believe, because it is from the Bible and is very straight-forward. I agree that you know much more about your church than do I, yet I wonder, why does most of main-stream Christianity seem to disagree with so much, we certainly do not accept the BOM, and disagree on certain doctrinal ideas, why is that? We believe we are right from a Biblical perspective, and you believe you are right. So, who is right? Both? Neither? You? Me? Why do you think people examine your doctrine with such scrutiny? To be mean, or because they care about you and want you to know the truth? I know that goes right back the same toward me, you all are trying to show me the truth you believe and I am trying to show you the truth I believe. All I am saying is we should always examine the truths we believe and be sure they measure up to the Bible.

 

[Evandr2]

It doesn't confuse us, we know what we are talking about. Unforutnatley you've done this countless times. I've just read this thread shaking my head. I don't even want to get into this, because you assume that you know more then all of us on a subject that you actually don't know much about. We are members of our Church, we know our doctrine. It's not like another 'wonderful' memeber of the forum has called us blind sheep and that our leaders are lying to us. Lying to us about what? They teach doctrine. *SIgh* Anyways, sorry, I'm just getting sick and tired of people telling me they know more about my Church then I do.

Be careful my friend, trial is part of growth. regardless of your religion, If you stop listening it means you have stopped communicating and that means you have stopped teaching. You may have to dig through a lot of nonsense to find that one person who you can reach and that has eternal implications.

Vandr

 

[Bishka]

I agree, I am not confused as to what I believe, because it is from the Bible and is very straight-forward. I agree that you know much more about your church than do I, yet I wonder, why does most of main-stream Christianity seem to disagree with so much, we certainly do not accept the BOM, and disagree on certain doctrinal ideas, why is that? We believe we are right from a Biblical perspective, and you believe you are right. So, who is right? Both? Neither? You? Me? Why do you think people examine your doctrine with such scrutiny? To be mean, or because they care about you and want you to know the truth? I know that goes right back the same toward me, you all are trying to show me the truth you believe and I am trying to show you the truth I believe. All I am saying is we should always examine the truths we believe and be sure they measure up to the Bible.

Why dont' people believe the BOM? Most of them have never read it, and if they did they would see that it is another testament of Christ. They don't believe because something like that is NEVER possible, they've heard rumors, etc. etc. I'm not even going to get into this with you, I know what you are doing.

 

[joeboonda]

I fixed your quote

I said enlightenment, not inquisition. The inquisition was responsible for the deaths of many Christians, and happenned WAY before the Age of Enlightenment, during the Dark Ages. Roman Catholicism and Christianity, well, I can't debate EVERYONE today, lol.

 

[Squirt]

For the same reason Mr. Smith started a new movement.

I believe joeboonda was staing that there had not been an Apostasy at the time of the Protestant Reformation, that it has happened since.

I'm absolutely not, under any circumstances, going to get off on the subject of an apostasy, though. Scott and I just got through licking our respective wounds and I don't want to go there again yet. :slap: Besides, we're heading off topic. (As a mod, you may have picked up on that already. )

 

[Squirt]

Be careful my friend, trial is part of growth. regardless of your religion, If you stop listening it means you have stopped communicating and that means you have stopped teaching. You may have to dig through a lot of nonsense to find that one person who you can reach and that has eternal implications.

Vandr

Hi, Evandr. (And welcome, by the way.) You're right. The only problem is that this is a recurring theme that joeboonda brings up from time to time. We Latter-day Saints just get tired of answering the same criticisms over and over and over again.

 

[Quiddity]

I believe joeboonda was staing that there had not been an Apostasy at the time of the Protestant Reformation, that it has happened since.

I'm absolutely not, under any circumstances, going to get off on the subject of an apostasy, though. Scott and I just got through licking our respective wounds and I don't want to go there again yet. :slap: Besides, we're heading off topic. (As a mod, you may have picked up on that already. )

No problemo.....
Let's get back on topic......

 

[joeboonda]

Why dont' people believe the BOM? Most of them have never read it, and if they did they would see that it is another testament of Christ. They don't believe because something like that is NEVER possible, they've heard rumors, etc. etc. I'm not even going to get into this with you, I know what you are doing.

Sorry, Becky, I read most of it long ago, but I will read it again. You know I believe the canon was closed after the NT, and I have my reasons for not believing it and I won't debate it, at least not here, but I will give the BOM a read.

 

[joeboonda]

If its my thread, can I declare you can just talk about what you want? What I was saying, was that at a time when mankind finaly was able to get the Bible printed and into 'everymans' hand, at a time when the gospel was being spread and hospitals and churches and schools were growing, and Christianity was spreading to a new world, how would one say it was in apostacy? In the last days there will be a great falling away, a great apostacy, before the return of Christ, and i believe we are beginning to see some of that today. Ah, just my thots, I dunno.

 

[Evandr2]

For the same reason Mr. Smith started a knew movement.

Your point is well taken. Fact of the matter is, you are correct. An apostasy is not the lack of teaching of religious dogma, it is the lack of the genuine authority of Jesus Christ on the earth.

Jesus Christ established a church and by the laying on of hands passed authority from himself to others. Part of the calling of those set apart by Christ was the authority to ordain still others to positions of authority through inspiration from Christ.

The key here is that the authority has to be able to trace it's lineage from person to person back to Christ Himself.

The authority to act in the name of Christ was taken from the earth when all who held that authority were destroyed not long after His ascension back to the Father. That was the beginning of apostacy. This made it necessary, if the church of Jesus Christ and the authority thereof were to be restored, that those on the other side of the veil manifest themselves and restored that authority personally. No man can take upon himself the authority of the priesthood.

Vandr