Who is Jesus?

[SoyLeche]

That's not correct. The website joeboonda posted is clearly an anti-Mormon one. It distorts and misrepresents the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The LDS posters on this forum respect joeboonda's right to disagree with our beliefs. What we object to is his having the audacity to post information that does not accurately state what our beliefs are. Does that make sense?

Not only that, but Joe has a history of doing this, and it gets tiresome.

 

[joeboonda]

Jesus is…
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Michael the Archangel = Jehovah's Witnesses[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A God
(One of many) =Mormons[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God =Mainstream Christianity[/FONT]

Jesus came from…
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is God's first creation =Jehovah's Witnesses[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is God's first born =Mormons[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always existed =Mainstream Christianity[/FONT]

Jesus' background before earthly birth
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was first an angel =Jehovah's Witnesses[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was first a spirit child =Mormons [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always existed as God =Mainstream Christianity[/FONT]

Virgin Birth?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes = AH! Here we all agree [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes[/FONT]

Jesus' conception
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Holy Spirit
(miracle) Jw, MC [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By God the Father
(normal way) LDS[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Was Jesus Married?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No JW, MC[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes Mormon[/FONT]


Do we pray to Jesus?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No JW, LDS [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes MC[/FONT]

Does Jesus have Spirit Relatives?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No JW, MC[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes. Lucifer, angels and us. LDS[/FONT]


Jesus' Salvation
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He was recreated new JW[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Earned his salvation himself just as we do. LDS[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He was without sin. Did not require salvation. MC[/FONT]

Here are some results of the chart, not including the last 2 groups (no offense) to compare our beliefs about Jesus. Some things interchange a bit among the 3 groups, and some are definetely different.

From a Bible-only view, we see Jesus as God, not one of many, that He has always existed, not God's firstborn 'spirit child', He was concieved by the Holy Spirit, not a sexual act of God the Father, That He was not married, that He is God, and not our 'spirit relative, or Satan's 'spirit brother'. Satan is a created angel (fallen), and Jesus is the Word, that was with God and that was God from everlasting. That He was ALWAYS without sin, and did not require or need to 'earn his salvation like us, making Him into the image of man.

Now, these are big differences, at least to me. This seems to be different Jesuses here, so we might ask, will the real Jesus please stand up? Again, I say, I am not bashing anyone's beliefs, I am showing the difference, it is important. Think of me what you will, I love you all, and I am just trying to see if everyone can get to the truth of the matter without making fun or posting rude remarks as I saw above. Peace and God help us understand and study rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I came across this video, and it moved me, I thought others might want to feel the Spirit. Whatever your 'beliefs' about Jesus might be, watch this film, don't think about it, or analyze it, just see how it makes you feel.

Jesus Loves You

 

[SoyLeche]

Jesus is…
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Michael the Archangel = Jehovah's Witnesses[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A God
(One of many) =Mormons[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God =Mainstream Christianity[/FONT]

Jesus came from…
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is God's first creation =Jehovah's Witnesses[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is God's first born =Mormons[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always existed =Mainstream Christianity[/FONT]

Jesus' background before earthly birth
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was first an angel =Jehovah's Witnesses[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Was first a spirit child =Mormons [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always existed as God =Mainstream Christianity[/FONT]

Virgin Birth?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes = AH! Here we all agree [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes[/FONT]

Jesus' conception
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Holy Spirit
(miracle) Jw, MC [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By God the Father
(normal way) LDS[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Was Jesus Married?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No JW, MC[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes Mormon[/FONT]


Do we pray to Jesus?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No JW, LDS [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes MC[/FONT]

Does Jesus have Spirit Relatives?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No JW, MC[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes. Lucifer, angels and us. LDS[/FONT]


Jesus' Salvation
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He was recreated new JW[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Earned his salvation himself just as we do. LDS[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He was without sin. Did not require salvation. MC[/FONT]

Here are some results of the chart, not including the last 2 groups (no offense) to compare our beliefs about Jesus. Some things interchange a bit among the 3 groups, and some are definetely different.

From a Bible-only view, we see Jesus as God, not one of many, that He has always existed, not God's firstborn 'spirit child', He was concieved by the Holy Spirit, not a sexual act of God the Father, That He was not married, that He is God, and not our 'spirit relative, or Satan's 'spirit brother'. Satan is a created angel (fallen), and Jesus is the Word, that was with God and that was God from everlasting. That He was ALWAYS without sin, and did not require or need to 'earn his salvation like us, making Him into the image of man.

Now, these are big differences, at least to me. This seems to be different Jesuses here, so we might ask, will the real Jesus please stand up? Again, I say, I am not bashing anyone's beliefs, I am showing the difference, it is important. Think of me what you will, I love you all, and I am just trying to see if everyone can get to the truth of the matter without making fun or posting rude remarks as I saw above. Peace and God help us understand and study rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Quite frankly, the chart is worthless. Trying to sum up complicated doctrines into single sentances doesn't work.

 

[Ðanisty]

Now, these are big differences, at least to me. This seems to be different Jesuses here, so we might ask, will the real Jesus please stand up? Again, I say, I am not bashing anyone's beliefs, I am showing the difference, it is important.

What everyone is telling you, Joe, is that the information you just posted (the information from the site) is inaccurate. If you want to talk about the differences, you at least have to work with some good source material! Notice how the only two columns with links in them to more descriptive pages are the LDS column and the bible column? The other three columns were just put up there as a ruse to get you to believe the propaganda. For Christ's sake, according to this website, I could be a mormon.

Some stuff from the site:
Lucifer is Jesus' Spirit Brother

As for the Devil and his fellow spirits, they are brothers to man and also to Jesus and sons and daughters of God in the same sense that we are.

Becky can tell you from personal conversations that this is what i believe. She (a member of the LDS) on the other hand had never even thought of it this way.

Unfortunately, some of our spirit brothers and sisters didn't like God's plan. One of them, Lucifer, was especially displeased, and he rebelled against it.

This I also believe, but I believe that Lucifer's plan of salvation is the best plan (knowledge and the ability to gain it).

Lucifer was a cherub, which is a type of warrior angel. Ezekiel 28:13-19 describes Lucifer as being in the garden with God. Lucifer was a model of perfection.

Having known Lucifer myself for several years, I must agree that he is a model of perfection.

The Bible - Jesus and Lucifer are NOT Brothers

Since Lucifer is an angel, he was created by Jesus.
Jesus is the creator. Lucifer is created. They can not be brothers.

Huh??? Okay, I don't get this and this one is from the "bible" page. Since when did Jesus create angels? Angels existed before he did!

 

[Squirt]

From a Bible-only view, we see Jesus as God, not one of many, that He has always existed, not God's firstborn 'spirit child', He was concieved by the Holy Spirit, not a sexual act of God the Father, That He was not married, that He is God, and not our 'spirit relative, or Satan's 'spirit brother'. Satan is a created angel (fallen), and Jesus is the Word, that was with God and that was God from everlasting. That He was ALWAYS without sin, and did not require or need to 'earn his salvation like us, making Him into the image of man.

Now, these are big differences, at least to me. This seems to be different Jesuses here, so we might ask, will the real Jesus please stand up? Again, I say, I am not bashing anyone's beliefs, I am showing the difference, it is important. Think of me what you will, I love you all, and I am just trying to see if everyone can get to the truth of the matter without making fun or posting rude remarks as I saw above. Peace and God help us understand and study rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

I really feel sorry for you, joeboonda. You buy into every bit of twisted nonsense you read about LDS beliefs. It doesn't matter to you one bit that three Latter-day Saints have posted on this thread and have stated, "That's not what we believe!" It goes in one ear and our the other. Don't say "No offense" or "I'm not bashing anyone's beliefs" when you are knowingly posting material that is offensive and are clearly bashing what you perceive our beliefs to be. That happens to be dishonest. Is that what "real" Christians do?

Let me ask you just four questions. I would appreciate honest answers to them, if you would be so kind.

1. Have you ever attended an LDS worship service (aka "Sacrament Meeting")?

2. Have ever read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover?

3. How many of the roughly 400-500 LDS General Conference talks given by LDS leaders during the past 10 or so have you listened to or read?

4. Why do you believe that the LDS posters on this website would lie to you about what we believe?

 

[joeboonda]

I came across this video, and it moved me, I thought others might want to feel the Spirit. Whatever your 'beliefs' about Jesus might be, watch this film, don't think about it, or analyze it, just see how it makes you feel.

Jesus Loves You

That was a really good video! I definetely put my trust in what He did on that cross, I certainly could never add anything more to what He did, amazing. Thanks.

 

[joeboonda]

What information in the chart is innacurate?

 

[SoyLeche]

What information in the chart is innacurate?

Do you even bother to read anyone else's posts?

 

[Ðanisty]

I came across this video, and it moved me, I thought others might want to feel the Spirit. Whatever your 'beliefs' about Jesus might be, watch this film, don't think about it, or analyze it, just see how it makes you feel.

Jesus Loves You

You don't want me to share what I thought...lol. :bounce

 

[joeboonda]

Yes I read the posts, I want to know what exactly in this chart is not accurate.

 

[SoyLeche]

The compartmentalizing is entirely innacurate. For example - "Jesus Came From..." - I'd have to say that both columns B and C represent what the LDS church believes. And we've already had quite a discussion about Jesus' conception - so we don't need to go into that again, unless you really want to. The LDS church has no official stance on Jesus' marital status. There are examples of people in the Book of Mormon praying to Jesus. The salvation compartment is WAY oversimplified.

Just a suggestion, drop the strawman. If you want to discuss any of these, let's do it. That chart, however, is very inadequate.

There's a start

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

You don't want me to share what I thought...lol. :bounce

No, I said, don't 'think' about it. I would be interested in how you felt. Did you feel anything? Maybe the cat made you think "awwww how cute"? Any good feeling at all? IF SO, remember that feeling, and search out things that make you feel that way. This is the Holy Spirit trying to flow through you, this is you, trying to be like Christ.

 

[joeboonda]

I really feel sorry for you, joeboonda. You buy into every bit of twisted nonsense you read about LDS beliefs. It doesn't matter to you one bit that three Latter-day Saints have posted on this thread and have stated, "That's not what we believe!" It goes in one ear and our the other. Don't say "No offense" or "I'm not bashing anyone's beliefs" when you are knowingly posting material that is offensive and are clearly bashing what you perceive our beliefs to be. That happens to be dishonest. Is that what "real" Christians do?

Let me ask you just four questions. I would appreciate honest answers to them, if you would be so kind.

1. Have you ever attended an LDS worship service (aka "Sacrament Meeting")?

2. Have ever read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover?

3. How many of the roughly 400-500 LDS General Conference talks given by LDS leaders during the past 10 or so have you listened to or read?

4. Why do you believe that the LDS posters on this website would lie to you about what we believe?

First, dont feel one bit sorry for me. Second, what in this chart is 'not what you believe'? Third, what is offensive on this chart? As for your questions: no, most of it, none, and I don't think anyone would lie to me. And how much have you attended mainline churches and Bible studies? How much do you listen to mainline theologians and ministers? Why do you get sooo defensive? Its a chart showing the differences in our beliefs about Christ, relax. Aren't we to study to prove that which is good, rightly dividing the Word of Truth? Can't we disagree and discuss these things without calling people names like 'anti-Mormon'? I don't call you anti-Baptist or anti-Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. That is something your leaders (probably, how should I know) have taught you, that anyone who disagrees with your doctrine is anti-Mormon. Lets quit this and debate about the question, "Who is Jesus", and the differences on the chart, and see if we can learn something here.`

 

[Evandr2]

Hello. being new to religious forums I have been interested in what I am reading in this thread. The whole intent here seems to be about the Mormon religion and fails to focus on what is important.
If you have a point of gospel docterin you believe to be true, would it not be wise to show your devotion to that docterin by promoting it and not trying to uphold your position by casting shadows on others?
I am familiar with the LDS church and they are fine people who love the Lord.
Who are we to say who their Lord is or weather they are Christions or not?
It is simply not important to my salvation to go around pointing fingers at others. What is important is finding the truth by inspiration of the Holy Ghost and then keeping Christ's commandment to "feed his sheep" by passing on that information to others.

 

[joeboonda]

What everyone is telling you, Joe, is that the information you just posted (the information from the site) is inaccurate. If you want to talk about the differences, you at least have to work with some good source material! Notice how the only two columns with links in them to more descriptive pages are the LDS column and the bible column? The other three columns were just put up there as a ruse to get you to believe the propaganda. For Christ's sake, according to this website, I could be a mormon.

Some stuff from the site:
Lucifer is Jesus' Spirit Brother
Becky can tell you from personal conversations that this is what i believe. She (a member of the LDS) on the other hand had never even thought of it this way.

This I also believe, but I believe that Lucifer's plan of salvation is the best plan (knowledge and the ability to gain it).

Having known Lucifer myself for several years, I must agree that he is a model of perfection.

The Bible - Jesus and Lucifer are NOT Brothers
Huh??? Okay, I don't get this and this one is from the "bible" page. Since when did Jesus create angels? Angels existed before he did!

Appreciate the 'insight', Dan, but, I actually put this in the Christian Forum and it got moved out. We know you are a follower of Lucifer and hold different beliefs than us. It is common LDS doctrine that we are all spirit brothers to Jesus, including Satan. It is not mainstream belief as we hold Jesus to be God, and that He has always co-existed with God the Father and the God the Holy Spirit. He created the angels, angels are created beings, Jesus was begotten, not made. Satan is an angel and therefore a created being. Jesus actually existed from everlasting, and came to earth as a man to pay for our sins 2,000 yrs ago. This is what the Bible says, and my source of authority.

 

[SoyLeche]

First, dont feel one bit sorry for me. Second, what in this chart is 'not what you believe'? Third, what is offensive on this chart? As for your questions: no, most of it, none, and I don't think anyone would lie to me. And how much have you attended mainline churches and Bible studies? How much do you listen to mainline theologians and ministers? Why do you get sooo defensive? Its a chart showing the differences in our beliefs about Christ, relax. Aren't we to study to prove that which is good, rightly dividing the Word of Truth? Can't we disagree and discuss these things without calling people names like 'anti-Mormon'? I don't call you anti-Baptist or anti-Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. That is something your leaders (probably, how should I know) have taught you, that anyone who disagrees with your doctrine is anti-Mormon. Lets quit this and debate about the question, "Who is Jesus", and the differences on the chart, and see if we can learn something here.`

It's not a matter of you disagreeing. That is acceptable. The problem is that you insist on telling everyone what Mormons believe, when the truth of the matter is that you don't know what you are talking about. If you want to discuss things, thats fine - but stop trying to tell us what we believe. We are more than willing to tell you, and since you really have no clue, that's probably the best way to go.

 

[joeboonda]

Hello. being new to religious forums I have been interested in what I am reading in this thread. The whole intent here seems to be about the Mormon religion and fails to focus on what is important.
If you have a point of gospel docterin you believe to be true, would it not be wise to show your devotion to that docterin by promoting it and not trying to uphold your position by casting shadows on others?
I am familiar with the LDS church and they are fine people who love the Lord.
Who are we to say who their Lord is or weather they are Christions or not?
It is simply not important to my salvation to go around pointing fingers at others. What is important is finding the truth by inspiration of the Holy Ghost and then keeping Christ's commandment to "feed his sheep" by passing on that information to others.

Hi and welcome. Actually the whole intent is to find out 'who is Jesus', it was all quite innocent, but the LDS folks got mad for no reason. There is a chart that shows the differences of our beliefs about Jesus, that is all. Thing we or at least I am trying to do, someday, is to have a discussion about Jesus, and to see if our various beliefs about Him hold up under Biblical scrutiny. ( I have no other source of authority ). Why is it important to anyone's salvation? Well, if there is a chance, even if it is very slight, that anyone, be it me or a JW or LDS or UU or ANYONE that believes anything, something, about Jesus Christ, is trusting in a false Christ, and I am not saying anyone is, but, if there is even the smallest chance that we are misplacing our trust, or that we have been deceived, wouldn't we all want to know? So, we could place our trust in the real Jesus, and have real salvation? I have said before, I hope we all believe in the same Christ and we all go to Heaven, however, I see differences in WHO we say He is and this is something I feel is worthy of investigation.

 

[joeboonda]

It's not a matter of you disagreeing. That is acceptable. The problem is that you insist on telling everyone what Mormons believe, when the truth of the matter is that you don't know what you are talking about. If you want to discuss things, thats fine - but stop trying to tell us what we believe. We are more than willing to tell you, and since you really have no clue, that's probably the best way to go.

I am not telling anyone what they believe, its a chart, it shows the differences. You have yet to tell me what on the chart is innaccurate.

 

[SoyLeche]

I am not telling anyone what they believe, its a chart, it shows the differences. You have yet to tell me what on the chart is innaccurate.

It is a chart that is inacurate and was only put together to set up a strawman of the LDS beliefs that can then be knocked down. Don't act all innocent. You have had an obvious grudge against the LDS church for a very long time now. You knew full well before you posted this that it would offend the LDS posters. You really need to work on your tact.