What's going on in the minds?

[Polymath257]

Well it was news to me too at the time. I remember visualising a postbox (in red) and then changing it to blue to make sure I was not deceiving myself.

I just asked my wife to visualize a box and asked the color she imagined. Brown.

When I 'visualize' a box, I have no definite image and definitely no color. I can attach a *label* red or blue to it, but without an image, that is simply a label.

 

[PureX]

Well, in my youth I probably was suffering from something - not sure what and it didn't really affect my life apart from making we rather introverted. One's inner voice can often be mistaken for something else and much later I did place any such voices into perspective - as often not being that helpful. Have never had even a remote belief in God or gods from early on but I'm a bit more open to such now even though I'm mostly an atheist still.

I think that seeing these things as a manifestation of the divine is a philosophical choice. I would personally not consider my own thoughts or inner (voices) to be manifestations of the divine, even though I do presume that we each have a divine aspect to our spirit that we can choose to manifest in our way of being, or not to. But I don't perceive that divinity within me to generate any voices so much as a being quiet inclination toward love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity. It's not about 'words' or messages. It's about motivation.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I think that seeing these things as a manifestation of the divine is a philosophical choice. I would personally not consider my own thoughts or inner (voices) to be manifestations of the divine, even though I do presume that we each have a divine aspect to our spirit that we can choose to manifest in our way of being, or not to. I don't perceive that divinity within to generate any voices so much as a quiet inclination toward love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity. It's not about 'words' or messages.

Well I'm a bit worried about those who apparently have conversations with God, knowing how deceptive our minds can be.

 

[PureX]

I have no idea what you just said. I am saying that experience isn't always reality. Just because you *think* you experienced a God doesn't mean you actually did.

Actually, it kind of does mean that. You keep assuming that material reality defines truth. But it doesn't. The truth is what is, and one person's experience of God, however it's achieved, or however it's conceptualized, is within the realm of what is. It may not be within the realm of what is that you can access, or verify, but you don't define the parameters of what is (truth).

 

[PureX]

Well I'm a bit worried about those who apparently have conversations with God, knowing how deceptive our minds can be.

And rightly so.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Well, in my youth I probably was suffering from something - not sure what and it didn't really affect my life apart from making we rather introverted. One's inner voice can often be mistaken for something else and much later I did place any such voices into perspective - as often not being that helpful. Have never had even a remote belief in God or gods from early on but I'm a bit more open to such now even though I'm mostly an atheist still.

The problem with humanity, is how we think. This is what causes almost all of the suffering in the world.
We do not realize that we are at "war"....the battle ground is the mind.....the war is spiritual...
and the "enemy" is …...US. ( the false self "ego" that controls the minds of almost every human being ).

 

[Mock Turtle]

The problem with humanity, is how we think. This is what causes almost all of the suffering in the world.
We do not realize that we are at "war"....the battle ground is the mind.....the war is spiritual...
and the "enemy" is …...US. ( the false self "ego" that controls the minds of almost every human being ).

For you it might be. For many of us it's just the endless battle against our own human nature, and often more explainable than having to use religious concepts - since we have evolved from rather more primitive ancestors and still retain much of what worked for them but tends to get in the way now.

 

[PureX]

The problem with humanity, is how we think. This is what causes almost all of the suffering in the world.
We do not realize that we are at "war"....the battle ground is the mind.....the war is spiritual...
and the "enemy" is …...US. ( the false self "ego" that controls the minds of almost every human being ).

I agree. But it's a fools errand to ask humanity to be something other than what it is. So we will either have to find the spark of transcendence within ourselves, or we will perish as a species that was too smart, and yet also too stupid for its own good.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Well, in my youth I probably was suffering from something - not sure what and it didn't really affect my life apart from making we rather introverted. One's inner voice can often be mistaken for something else and much later I did place any such voices into perspective - as often not being that helpful. Have never had even a remote belief in God or gods from early on but I'm a bit more open to such now even though I'm mostly an atheist still.

The problem with humanity, is how we think. This is what causes almost all of the suffering in the world.
We do not realize that we are at "war"....the battle ground is the mind.....the war is spiritual...
and the "enemy" is …...US. ( the false self "ego" that controls the minds of almost every human being ).

I agree. But it's a fools errand to ask humanity to be something other than what it is. So we will either have to find the spark of transcendence within ourselves, or we will perish as a species that was too smart, and yet also too stupid for its own good.

That's true......and I can assure you that the "spark" (spirit) will never be lost, and will return to it's rightful place of transcendence.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

For you it might be. For many of us it's just the endless battle against our own human nature, and often more explainable than having to use religious concepts - since we have evolved from rather more primitive ancestors and still retain much of what worked for them but tends to get in the way now.

"human nature" = animal nature.....the nature of survival of the fittest, only the strong survive, dog eat dog, etc...
And when you come to know that it was an "animal" that created your body, and that it is an "animal" that is constantly trying to
control your thinking (mind)….then you will know what you are up against.

We must KNOW that this physical body is NOT who we are, because if we don't know then our "human nature" will rule over us.

 

[Mock Turtle]

"human nature" = animal nature.....the nature of survival of the fittest, only the strong survive, dog eat dog, etc...
And when you come to know that it was an "animal" that created your body, and that it is an "animal" that is constantly trying to
control your thinking (mind)….then you will know what you are up against.

We must KNOW that this physical body is NOT who we are, because if we don't know then our "human nature" will rule over us.

We are a mixture. Still animal in many ways but also remarkable thinking and reasoning beings. You aren't going to convert those of us who have no need for religious explanations when others are more plausible.

 

[Polymath257]

Actually, it kind of does mean that. You keep assuming that material reality defines truth. But it doesn't. The truth is what is, and one person's experience of God, however it's achieved, or however it's conceptualized, is within the realm of what is. It may not be within the realm of what is that you can access, or verify, but you don't define the parameters of what is (truth).

It is a truth that you perceive. It is not necessarily the truth that you perceive correctly. And, I hope it is obvious that our perceptions can be wrong and even frequently are.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

We are a mixture. Still animal in many ways but also remarkable thinking and reasoning beings. You aren't going to convert those of us who have no need for religious explanations when others are more plausible.

lol....not trying to "convert" anyone to anything. If you prefer to be an "animal" , when you can be a True Human Being....
then go for it.

 

[Howard Is]

I've often wondered if this has a bearing on God belief. If someone is prone to hear distinct voices and see images as part of their imagination, does that impact the likelihood of God-belief?

I listened to a podcast recently where someone, who was a fan of Cher, started hearing Cher's voice giving her advice. It wasn't clear if she actually believed Cher was giving her advice, but is it possible those who 'hear God' have something similar going on?

Just putting it out there.

I think you may be right. Perhaps it comes down to how we were conditioned to relate to such experiences as children.
Navy SEALS are taught to cultivate inner voices to guide and encourage them. It is a powerful skill, associated with survivors.

This is the first time I have seen this subject discussed, which I find significant. How could something so fundamental be so ignored ?
I have experimented with 'the voice'. It is a weirdly educational thing to deliberately set up multiple 'entities' in your inner dialogue, and allow each one to assert that it is 'the real you'. Funny at first, as the argument ramps up, and then...strange.

It took me many years to realise that the voice in my head isn't 'my real self', but just a product of the brain. This is fundamental to my interpretation of the buddhist word annatta, 'not self'.

When you do realise that, your options are ...ignore it, or look a lot deeper into what is 'self', if anything.

 

[Mock Turtle]

lol....not trying to "convert" anyone to anything. If you prefer to be an "animal" , when you can be a True Human Being....
then go for it.

Just as much animal as you and all the rest, so not bothered with that. Are all the other religious not having your particular belief not 'true human beings' too? And I think placing humans in the spectrum of life realistically is far better, for us and all other life, than trying to posture that we are unique.

 

[PureX]

It is a truth that you perceive. It is not necessarily the truth that you perceive correctly. And, I hope it is obvious that our perceptions can be wrong and even frequently are.

Our perceptions of what is (truth) aren't right or wrong. They are limited and biased by human nature, and always changing.

 

[exchemist]

So why don't some people have inner speech? Studies show that producing inner speech requires a network of brain activity spanning from the frontal lobe to auditory cortex, which is located near your ears.


A viral article has split us into two different ways of thinking. This is the science behind it

I thought this quite interesting. I heard somewhere in the grapevine that because thought process (hearing the inner voice) can't be explained, it "must be" from god. Similiar to if we can't "see" the origin of the universe, it "must be" from god.

The website isn't scientific; so, don't expect it to be so.

Thanks for the article, which I found interesting. I think I use inner speech when I am trying to think something through rationally, i.e. applying a conscious effort to analyse an issue or develop a response to something, and also to motivate myself to carry out tasks. I find it hard to imagine how I could function without this, but I am sure there are also times when don't use it. The inner dialogue was not always there for example when I used to go rowing (though it certainly was in a race, or a technical exercise) and it is not usually there when I'm singing - fairly obviously I suppose, since I think in music while I'm doing that - though it can momentarily re-appear when I have to "manage" what I'm singing, e.g. finding the pitch for an entry.

I think the connection to God must be spurious, however since as the article makes clear this is commonplace and people know perfectly the voice is an articulation of their own thoughts.

 

[Polymath257]

Our perceptions of what is (truth) aren't right or wrong. They are limited and biased by human nature, and always changing.

As are ALL of our experiences, including the experience of God. The question is whether they are limited and biased to the point that they give incorrect information about the external world.

 

[Polymath257]

This is the first time I have seen this subject discussed, which I find significant. How could something so fundamental be so ignored ?

I think a big part of the reason is that most people assume every other healthy individual is just like them. And since we never experience how other people experience, this is an assumption that can last a long time. Unless we figure out to ask very specific questions, we never get any evidence of these differences.

Also, those without these abilities (or who haven't developed them) *also* think everyone is just like them, but that the descriptions of 'inner voices' or of 'seeing images' is an analogy or some other circumlocution. Again, unless there is close questioning, it is difficult to determine people are fundamentally experiencing things differently.

I am curious whether those who do not have an inner voice ever get songs 'stuck in their heads'. Either answer here would be fascinating, I think.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Just as much animal as you and all the rest, so not bothered with that. Are all the other religious not having your particular belief not 'true human beings' too? And I think placing humans in the spectrum of life realistically is far better, for us and all other life, than trying to posture that we are unique.

The purpose for our being here in this life, is to become "True Human Beings".
None of us have attained to that yet, being here in this flesh body ( animal body ).

But it should be obvious that some are more on their way and a lot closer to that goal than others.
And how one person can blow your brains out without even batting an eye....
while another person could never do such a thing, even if their life depended on it.

Each of us as a separate and individual being are unique and special , each in his own way...
But what makes us really special is that ultimately we are all the same....."God"