What's a "Purple Penguin"?The gender inclusive name for boys & girls in Nebraska public schools

[Buttercup]

Of course I read it. And like so many a-thing, its not even worth thinking too much about.

Kids derive most of their identity and values first through peers, then through parents, and then school.

I really am not concerned with kids learning that sexual orientation is non-binary. I don't expect many to really even understand such topics until after college anyways.

I know it's a particularly weird day when I am agreeing with dust1n, lol, the last line especially.

Says two dudes who don't have ANY kids.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Says two dudes who don't have ANY kids.

There's a couple of lesbian mothers at my daughters kinder. She's never asked me a single question about them, although she'll occasionally comment that 'such and such has 2 mums'. 'Why's that?'. 'She has no dad, she just has an extra mum'.

Doesn't seem very interested at all, to be honest. It's just stuff.

On the other hand, she asked me a lot of questions at one stage about the janitor, who was African and extremely dark-skinned. Never can tell.

 

[Buttercup]

There's a couple of lesbian mothers at my daughters kinder. She's never asked me a single question about them, although she'll occasionally comment that 'such and such has 2 mums'. 'Why's that?'. 'She has no dad, she just has an extra mum'.

Doesn't seem very interested at all, to be honest. It's just stuff.

On the other hand, she asked me a lot of questions at one stage about the janitor, who was African and extremely dark-skinned. Never can tell.

I understand this. Kids often take their world as they see it with no questions asked. And sometimes, it's best to leave it at that.

My whole beef has been that some folks are taking this pamphlet into realms that are way off kilter. I honestly think this information for teachers is meant to be educational and not much else. It's certainly not a call to arms over gender differences and stringent inclusions of said differences.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I understand this. Kids often take their world as they see it with no questions asked. And sometimes, it's best to leave it at that.

My whole beef has been that some folks are taking this pamphlet into realms that are way off kilter. I honestly think this information for teachers is meant to be educational and not much else. It's certainly not a call to arms over gender differences and stringent inclusions of said differences.

*sighs*

I dunno. I worry about the education system here, and it sounds like yours is more down the social engineering route than ours is, even.
My issue was always this;

1) As teachers (and I was a primary teacher, so with the little uns) we believe we can make a difference. We can influence and teach.

2) As teachers, we are taught how to teach. We know the best (or at least current) thinking on maths and language.

3) Primary teachers tend to be majority female (perhaps not as issue, perhaps it is).

4) For whatever reason, schools end up being these little factories of social engineering. They're like the front line in a whole lot of fights to change society, one impressionable youth at a time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For what it's worth, I always thought a school had a vital role to play in a young person's life. Kids come from all sortsa background, and school can be their only stability.

So, creating a safe environment, and proactively dealing with bullying? Right on board.

Schools being involved in provision of before and after school of quality, and of providing breakfasts in an appropriate fashion? Yep, also right on board.

A role in identifying cases of suspected child abuse? Hated that part of the job, but it absolutely makes sense.

Controlling the way kids speak, and draw, and tell stories in a zero tolerance fashion? Not only am I not on board, but I'm personally convinced it's counter-productive. Positive modelling and encouragement make sense to me. Encourage those boys (in particular) to tell stories with more than just superheroes or soldiers. Or even tell them every second story has to include x,y,z. Be inventive. Round them out as people.

Heck, people harkening back to their childhoods is poor evidence, but I played with guns, and was obsessed with war. It lead me to reading about war, talking about war, and getting about as much understanding of war as you can have without being in a war. Which makes me pretty much a pacifist.

These kids are growing up in a country where their right to bear arms is protected by the constitution, and instead of having sensible discussions about guns, it's stifled like it's a naughty word.

It's not a consistent approach, and I'm unsure where schools get the mandate to act in this fashion.

 

[Buttercup]

*sighs*

I dunno. I worry about the education system here, and it sounds like yours is more down the social engineering route than ours is, even.
My issue was always this;

1) As teachers (and I was a primary teacher, so with the little uns) we believe we can make a difference. We can influence and teach.

2) As teachers, we are taught how to teach. We know the best (or at least current) thinking on maths and language.

3) Primary teachers tend to be majority female (perhaps not as issue, perhaps it is).

4) For whatever reason, schools end up being these little factories of social engineering. They're like the front line in a whole lot of fights to change society, one impressionable youth at a time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For what it's worth, I always thought a school had a vital role to play in a young person's life. Kids come from all sortsa background, and school can be their only stability.

So, creating a safe environment, and proactively dealing with bullying? Right on board.

Schools being involved in provision of before and after school of quality, and of providing breakfasts in an appropriate fashion? Yep, also right on board.

A role in identifying cases of suspected child abuse? Hated that part of the job, but it absolutely makes sense.

Controlling the way kids speak, and draw, and tell stories in a zero tolerance fashion? Not only am I not on board, but I'm personally convinced it's counter-productive. Positive modelling and encouragement make sense to me. Encourage those boys (in particular) to tell stories with more than just superheroes or soldiers. Or even tell them every second story has to include x,y,z. Be inventive. Round them out as people.

Heck, people harkening back to their childhoods is poor evidence, but I played with guns, and was obsessed with war. It lead me to reading about war, talking about war, and getting about as much understanding of war as you can have without being in a war. Which makes me pretty much a pacifist.

These kids are growing up in a country where their right to bear arms is protected by the constitution, and instead of having sensible discussions about guns, it's stifled like it's a naughty word.

It's not a consistent approach, and I'm unsure where schools get the mandate to act in this fashion.

I agree with all this.

 

[YmirGF]

*sighs*

I dunno. I worry about the education system here, and it sounds like yours is more down the social engineering route than ours is, even.
My issue was always this;

1) As teachers (and I was a primary teacher, so with the little uns) we believe we can make a difference. We can influence and teach.

2) As teachers, we are taught how to teach. We know the best (or at least current) thinking on maths and language.

3) Primary teachers tend to be majority female (perhaps not as issue, perhaps it is).

4) For whatever reason, schools end up being these little factories of social engineering. They're like the front line in a whole lot of fights to change society, one impressionable youth at a time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For what it's worth, I always thought a school had a vital role to play in a young person's life. Kids come from all sortsa background, and school can be their only stability.

So, creating a safe environment, and proactively dealing with bullying? Right on board.

Schools being involved in provision of before and after school of quality, and of providing breakfasts in an appropriate fashion? Yep, also right on board.

A role in identifying cases of suspected child abuse? Hated that part of the job, but it absolutely makes sense.

Controlling the way kids speak, and draw, and tell stories in a zero tolerance fashion? Not only am I not on board, but I'm personally convinced it's counter-productive. Positive modelling and encouragement make sense to me. Encourage those boys (in particular) to tell stories with more than just superheroes or soldiers. Or even tell them every second story has to include x,y,z. Be inventive. Round them out as people.

Heck, people harkening back to their childhoods is poor evidence, but I played with guns, and was obsessed with war. It lead me to reading about war, talking about war, and getting about as much understanding of war as you can have without being in a war. Which makes me pretty much a pacifist.

These kids are growing up in a country where their right to bear arms is protected by the constitution, and instead of having sensible discussions about guns, it's stifled like it's a naughty word.

It's not a consistent approach, and I'm unsure where schools get the mandate to act in this fashion.

The social engineering aspect is what I find a bit troubling. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... In my own jurisdiction it is through the collective bargaining process.

 

[dust1n]

Says two dudes who don't have ANY kids.

I'm not sure what specific part Ymir was agreeing with, or which part you are referring to.

 

[Revoltingest]

The social engineering aspect is what I find a bit troubling. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... In my own jurisdiction it is through the collective bargaining process.

"Social engineering" gets a bad rep. Dang near all laws, rules & policies are about
getting people to behave a certain way. The real questions are whether it goes
too far or in the wrong way. Avoiding bullying & rigid gender roles is a good goal,
but is this "purple penguin" policy the best way? I won't advocate for it here.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not sure what specific part Ymir was agreeing with, or which part you are referring to.

Isn't it obvious what she's suggesting?
She wants to provide you with children.

 

[Revoltingest]

My whole beef has been that some folks are taking this
pamphlet into realms that are way off kilter.... It's certainly not a call to arms over
gender differences and stringent inclusions of said differences.

Hey, this is the internet!
A loopy idea will be argued over with more attention & polarization than it deserves.
It will seem to be very important to both sides. Meanwhile, back in the real world,
it will be largely ignored.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I fail to see what is "outdated" and "absurd" about the fact that boys and girls exist as different categories, and that the vast majority of human beings exist as one or the other.

The same is generally true of race. Would this make it okay for teachers to divide their classes into groups by race, or to greet the class by saying "good morning, Caucasians, African-Americans, and Asian-Americans!" (assuming that covered all the kids in this particular class)?

 

[Revoltingest]

The same is generally true of race. Would this make it okay for teachers to divide their classes into groups by race, or to greet the class by saying "good morning, Caucasians, African-Americans, and Asian-Americans!" (assuming that covered all the kids in this particular class)?

It's a useful analogy, but gender differences tend to be much greater than racial differences.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's a useful analogy, but gender differences tend to be much greater than racial differences.

My mate taught Preps, and always started the day with 'Good morning everyone, everyone sit down, get comfortable, cross your legs, and take your fingers out of noses'.

He didn't have to identify that it was mostly boys picking nose nuggets.

The point is...err...I'm not sure I have a point.
Oh wait. Yes I do. Gender differences might be greater, but they're rarely worth distinguishing in a classroom. Having said that, I never yet met a kid traumatised by being identified as a girl or a boy from time to time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh, and then they get mad when they're females dressing like girly-girls and people actually don't see them as male and call them male pronouns. As if everyone is just magically supposed to know.

What would be wrong with just asking people what they want to be called? We've been trained to do this for names ("should I call you Steve or Stephen?"); why not pronouns, too?

 

[Buttercup]

Hey, this is the internet!
A loopy idea will be argued over with more attention & polarization than it deserves.
It will seem to be very important to both sides. Meanwhile, back in the real world,
it will be largely ignored.

.....and forgotten. Like, as in, today.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The same is generally true of race. Would this make it okay for teachers to divide their classes into groups by race, or to greet the class by saying "good morning, Caucasians, African-Americans, and Asian-Americans!" (assuming that covered all the kids in this particular class)?

As Revolting said, the differences between the genders are much greater and much more well-documented, unlike the concept of "race". Bad analogy.

What would be wrong with just asking people what they want to be called? We've been trained to do this for names ("should I call you Steve or Stephen?"); why not pronouns, too?

So we should have to ask everyone which pronouns they prefer? I don't think you understand the situation I was describing. If you don't make the effort to present as the gender you want people to see you as, you have no business getting upset when people fail to address you by the pronouns you prefer.

 

[Alceste]

My mate taught Preps, and always started the day with 'Good morning everyone, everyone sit down, get comfortable, cross your legs, and take your fingers out of noses'.

He didn't have to identify that it was mostly boys picking nose nuggets.

The point is...err...I'm not sure I have a point.
Oh wait. Yes I do. Gender differences might be greater, but they're rarely worth distinguishing in a classroom. Having said that, I never yet met a kid traumatised by being identified as a girl or a boy from time to time.

Me neither, but I was somewhat disturbed by my school segregating students by gender and making all the girls take home economics while all the boys took shop. That reinforced irritating customs at grandma's house, where all the women and girls did all the cooking and washing up while all the men and boys lounged around watching telly. Obviously I would have preferred lounging around watching telly with my brother, so the whole deal seemed very unfair. To this day I hate cooking, possibly because of these associations.

So considering the alternative, I think a pamphlet explaining that our interests and talents are not determined by the junk in our trunk is a good thing.

 

[BSM1]

Me neither, but I was somewhat disturbed by my school segregating students by gender and making all the girls take home economics while all the boys took shop. That reinforced irritating customs at grandma's house, where all the women and girls did all the cooking and washing up while all the men and boys lounged around watching telly. Obviously I would have preferred lounging around watching telly with my brother, so the whole deal seemed very unfair. To this day I hate cooking, possibly because of these associations.

So considering the alternative, I think a pamphlet explaining that our interests and talents are not determined by the junk in our trunk is a good thing.

I understand your position, and time and society has redefined gender roles, but in all fairness to grandma consider these two points:
1. Did grandma go to work with grandpa for the 40 plus hours he may have worked during the week?
2. I'm not sure about your grandma but both of my grandmothers ruled the kitchen. They would have not tolerated grandpa (or anyone else for that matter) doing the cooking or the cleaning in their kingdoms.

 

[Alceste]

I understand your position, and time and society has redefined gender roles, but in all fairness to grandma consider these two points:
1. Did grandma go to work with grandpa for the 40 plus hours he may have worked during the week?
2. I'm not sure about your grandma but both of my grandmothers ruled the kitchen. They would have not tolerated grandpa (or anyone else for that matter) doing the cooking or the cleaning in their kingdoms.

Yes, both my grandmothers worked. The one who is still alive now has no problem with men cooking. This was 20-30 years ago.

 

[YmirGF]

Of course I read it. And like so many a-thing, its not even worth thinking too much about.

Kids derive most of their identity and values first through peers, then through parents, and then school.

I really am not concerned with kids learning that sexual orientation is non-binary. I don't expect many to really even understand such topics until after college anyways.

I know it's a particularly weird day when I am agreeing with dust1n, lol, the last line especially.

I'm not sure what specific part Ymir was agreeing with...

Can I get much more specific?