lukethethird
unknown member
Is God worth believing in or is God not worth believing in, the questions are irrelevant to anything that matters.
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What verifiable evidence is there that god exists?
- Thread starter JJ50
- Start date
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
You mean His implied presence, No?
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
It would matter if He took it upon Himself to impose His punishment on you for the ills that are perpetrated by humans, No?
lukethethird
unknown member
However we wish to describe God, sadistic tyrant or otherwise, what difference does it make?
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We have the Bible and world as the Bible describes. But why should it be made clear? The goal seems to be to give a lesson and those who learn well and become righteous, can after this have eternal life. Bible is not much about believing, it is about right understanding. About what is good and right. The main thing is that we should love others. If you don’t do it now, why would you do it, if you would know God is real? And if you do it now, then there is no reason for more evidence.
Earthling
David Henson
I think every single religion on Earth is wrong, to some degree, but so is agnosticism and atheism and every other human endeavor. One doesn't need to know everything to make an informed decision. One very common mistake is that the word god implies anything other than might and veneration. The word god doesn't imply supernatural, creator, or specifically any being, sentient or otherwise, that is considered mighty or is venerated.
It drives me crazy.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
If we accept instructions from God to carry out actions that harm others, then it will make a difference to the world.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Which do you want verifiable evidence for......God, or the biblical God?
Your thread title differs from the OP.
What verifiable evidence is there that god exists?
I think the question is too vague without a strict definition of the 'god' and meaning that the question wants to discuss.
My position is that god is the One Cosmic Consciousness that we are all part of. The evidence (not verifiable by objective techniques) is the collective mystical experiences of the many spiritual Masters that claimed to have experienced the ultimate (nondualism).
The total worldview this view presents is to me logically the most believable when all things are considered. Traditional western Theistic and Atheistic schools of thought all have issues in my judgment.
I think the question is too vague without a strict definition of the 'god' and meaning that the question wants to discuss.
My position is that god is the One Cosmic Consciousness that we are all part of. The evidence (not verifiable by objective techniques) is the collective mystical experiences of the many spiritual Masters that claimed to have experienced the ultimate (nondualism).
The total worldview this view presents is to me logically the most believable when all things are considered. Traditional western Theistic and Atheistic schools of thought all have issues in my judgment.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Not true.
Many non religionists (!) Accept that there is a God.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
This is a bit of a non-sequitur. It depends upon what you mean by "many" but I will agree that some non-religionists believe that there is a God (accept is a wrong term as well). No one has shown any evidence for a God yet.
I would add to that the possibility of everyone to experience that by following what is called the "spiritual path".
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
If we have determined that God is sadistic, then we can stop cooperating with Him and live our lives independent of God.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
So my point was a non sequitur, but true.
Oh well.....
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Including a Personal God with whom one can have a one-to-one relationship through communications.
WalterTrull
Godfella
Oh... It's evidence to me. I've expressed it several times on the forums, but most often, I find that that those who don't already see it as evidence, won't be moved.
Nevertheless, and briefly, here’s one:
It seems to me that separate entities would have no way of experiencing one another. That we do, would indicate that we are not separate. My explanation is a life force with myriad visible aspects, appearing to be separate, but in fact, not. A mental existence (father in heaven) with many, many representations (children) I find a reasonable analogy. I use the term God for the father. Seems I’m not unique in that.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
As I've mentioned in other discussions about Christianity, this religion is demonstrated as being false.
The Biblical account of creation, regarding the origin of homo sapiens is false; because as I've noted elsewhere in some other discussions about Christianity, Jesus's family tree has a time span of 77 generations listed between his generation and Adam whom the Bible claims was the "first man". Reference: (Luke 3:23-38) and Eve whom the Bible claims as the mother of all the living. (Genesis 3:20)
However, the Australian aborigines have evidently been in Australia for over a thousand consecutive generations. Reference: Aboriginal Australians - Wikipedia
There have been hundreds of generations of Native Americans between the time their common ancestry migrated from Asia until the time of Christ.
Reference: Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia
Of course, the Bible is wrong; in fact, there were people prior to the 76th generation before Christ that allegedly was spawned by Adam and Eve.
Adam as being the first man and perpetrator of original sin is an important premise of Christianity. If Adam wasn't the first man, then there isn't actually any "origin sin". Jesus supposedly died on the Cross to save humankind from "original sin". If there isn't any "original sin" from which to be saved, then Jesus Christ's death on the Cross is pretty pointless and meaningless. Evidently, there were many generations of people prior to the 76th generation before Christ whom the Bible claims was spawned by Adam. So then, Adam, Eve and original sin are mythological. There is neither any "first man" nor "original sin" throughout human evolution. Thus, Jesus Christ having died on the cross to save mankind from "original sin" is not reality but is rather mythological.
Based on genetic diversity, there's never been a human population bottleneck as low as one primordial couple.
Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) "Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences". Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group
If there were the most severe population bottle-necking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would've had to commit incest among each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today's population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.
DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. " However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest". Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) " Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?". 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum
Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years." Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) " Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium". Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium
The Biblical account of creation, regarding the origin of homo sapiens is false; because as I've noted elsewhere in some other discussions about Christianity, Jesus's family tree has a time span of 77 generations listed between his generation and Adam whom the Bible claims was the "first man". Reference: (Luke 3:23-38) and Eve whom the Bible claims as the mother of all the living. (Genesis 3:20)
However, the Australian aborigines have evidently been in Australia for over a thousand consecutive generations. Reference: Aboriginal Australians - Wikipedia
There have been hundreds of generations of Native Americans between the time their common ancestry migrated from Asia until the time of Christ.
Reference: Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia
Of course, the Bible is wrong; in fact, there were people prior to the 76th generation before Christ that allegedly was spawned by Adam and Eve.
Adam as being the first man and perpetrator of original sin is an important premise of Christianity. If Adam wasn't the first man, then there isn't actually any "origin sin". Jesus supposedly died on the Cross to save humankind from "original sin". If there isn't any "original sin" from which to be saved, then Jesus Christ's death on the Cross is pretty pointless and meaningless. Evidently, there were many generations of people prior to the 76th generation before Christ whom the Bible claims was spawned by Adam. So then, Adam, Eve and original sin are mythological. There is neither any "first man" nor "original sin" throughout human evolution. Thus, Jesus Christ having died on the cross to save mankind from "original sin" is not reality but is rather mythological.
Based on genetic diversity, there's never been a human population bottleneck as low as one primordial couple.
Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) "Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences". Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group
If there were the most severe population bottle-necking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would've had to commit incest among each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today's population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.
DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. " However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest". Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) " Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?". 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum
Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years." Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) " Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium". Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
There are many gods or versions of God who are currently neither falsifiable nor verifiable to anybody, who is presently bound to Earth. However, I've presented overwhelming evidence that the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and highly benevolent theistic supernatural deity of Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, or Jesus Christ doesn't really exist.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
OK..... but that is for you to demonstrate.
I will stick with the Thread Title, thus:-
What verifiable evidence is there that god exists?
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
There's indeed a mark of extraterrestrial intelligence in our genetic coding; as evident by the numeric and semantic message of 037 embedded in our genetic code; this message of 037 embedded in our genetic code was discovered by scientists in 2012.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.906.4671&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Reference: ) The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov.
Research article published in scientific peer-reviewed journal of Icarus, published date May 2013
Exactly who/what left its/their mark in our genetic coding might not ever get determined by anybody presently bound to Earth. The search for our cosmic relatives and cosmic common ancestor likely then needs to be done with advanced space exploration. I'd like to urge everybody who's interested in our cosmic ancestry, then to please advise our Senate, Congress and President to expand our tax-payer funded resources for advance space exploration.