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Featured What type of atheist are you?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by leroy, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    No, what I mean is


    We don't know but science is currently working on it.

    The god of the gaps is getting smaller and smaller

    When you answer the question "Where does god come from?", you will begin to understand how I know god is not the cause of the universe.
     
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  2. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    "God" is not an explanation of anything. God is a proposed agent. Science explores a mechanism. Religion proposes an agent. Apples and oranges.

    How many times do we have to point this out, Leroy?
    Do you have a proposed mechanism that's better supported and more explanatory than a Big Bang?
    Do you have any explanation at all?
     
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  3. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    No I don't have a scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and nor does anyone. The reason is simple: lack of data on which to base any hypothesis. No data, no hypothesis. Simple.

    Science, as has so often been pointed out to you on this forum, is not in the business of providing explanations regardless of the justification behind them. If we don't know and we have no data, we say so. We do not lie to ourselves and fabricate a hypothesis for the sake of saying we have an answer, when we don't.

    Saying "God did it", with no physical definition of what God is and with no objective physical evidence of a God fitting that definition, is just a medieval cop-out, a non-explanation.

    In medieval times, people were in the habit of attributing any natural phenomenon they could not explain to an act of God. What we learned progressively, as a result of the Scientific Revolution, is that there actually were evidence-based explanations for more and more of them, which did not need to invoke the hand of God intervening. This is why science does never resorts to invoking the hand of God. It is anti-scientific to do so.

    Of course, you and I might feel, aesthetically, or for reasons of culture, that we prefer to attribute the cosmos to a Creator. That's fine, as a personal choice. But don't pretend there is any scientific argument for it.
     
  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    From there doesn't follow that science can answer it.

    In fact for a naturalistic universe religion is as natural as gravity. Even with a theory of everything it couldn't stop humans from being religious.
    In neutral and naturalistic terms there is nothing false about religion. It is a natural behavior in some humans.
     
  5. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Still no answer to my question ...

    Where does god come from?
     
  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Don't go there. It is unknown what reality is as independent of your mind. Nobody have solved the problem of solipsism:

    So here it is for your kind:
    Philosophy of science - Wikipedia

    Now prove that you have solved solipsism or shut up about what the world really is. I don't know and nor do you. I just believe differently that you. Welcome to the club of believers.
     
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  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    For me, a creator we can have actual knowledge about. Where a person could make a claim about such a entity and anyone could verify it for themselves.
     
  8. SeekerOnThePath

    SeekerOnThePath On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam

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    Abrahamism is anti-Anthropomorphic, that is why it exists in the first place.
    Can you hypothetically describe what you imagine what this would be?
     
  9. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Consistent results. If you prayed or made an offering, whatever you asked for would be given. Whatever prophecy was given to you could be 100% relied on to happen.
     
  10. SeekerOnThePath

    SeekerOnThePath On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam

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    Abrahamism is anti-Anthropomorphic, that is why it exists in the first place.
    What do you think that kind of universe would look like?
     
  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    [​IMG]
     
  12. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, but what knowledge is, is not that simple and you are not "we" and nor am I. So what reality is to you, don't have to be exactly the same to me as it is you or in reverse. Unless you are going to play objective knowledge and truth.
     
  13. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    Ok but in the case of Santa Clause.... We know that Santa is not the cause of gifts

    So the implication is that God and Santa are not comparable because in the case of Santa "we know"..... In the case of "God being the cause of the universe we dont know"

    Can you name a single scientific discovery from the las 100 years that made the Gap smaller?

    Ohhhh so which one is it?

    1 Do you know that god is not the cause of the universe? (in the same way we know that Santa is not the cause of gifts)........

    Or

    2 you dont know

    Which one is it, 1 or 2?
     
  14. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    So do you know that God is not the cause of the universe? (in the samecway we know that Santa is not the cause of gifts in the Christmas Tree?

    Strawnman..... I dont reject the big bang.
     
  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Has the original Santa Claus been found in Turkey?

    The discovery of DNA, you may of course deny it but is is absolute evidence that evolution is occurring.
     
  16. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    Ok no data therefore we don't know if God is the cause of the universe or not....... Agree?...... Does that represent your view?

    Or would you say that there is data / evidence that strongly and conclusively show that God is not the cause of the universe.... In the same way there is conclusive data that shows that Santa is not the cause of presents in the Christmas Tree?
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    "God?" Just the one? o_O
     
  18. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    How does that make the gap smaller?


    Before the discovery of DNA atheist had the "hope" that life is fundamentally simple.... Now we know that DNA is complex abd its getting more abd more complex as new discoveries and reaserch is being made...... So i woukd say that DNA made the Gap much bigger.


    But ill give you the oportunity to defend your claim..... How does the discovery of DNA made the existence of god less likely (made the gap smaller) than before such discovery?
     
  19. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I keep saying, and you fail each time to give me any counter evidence....There is more evidence for Santa than for god.

    Are you serious???
    3 examples without thinking about it ...
    • DNA
    • The Big Bang
    • Techtonic Plates

    I admit and I don't know how many times I have to say this, "I DO NOT KNOW THE CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE"
    But by involving god in the sequence you are adding an unnecessary step for which you have absolutely no evidence apart for Genesis 1.
     
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    I think that's how they see themselves in relation to their environment. If they do something bad, they feel all bad people deserve to get punished. So, when they do "sin" they feel they are worthy to be punished. The inherent sin factor leaves them in a state of avoiding judgement. It has less to do with an anthropomorphizating father being and more to do with father as an authority of judgement as would him to a child not an unseen being.
     
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