QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
I never once worded any of my statements as "I did it, why can't you?" You just love to put words in my mouth and demonize the message I have to offer. Why is that? Why can't you stand the fact that someone might like to share the ideas and rationalizations that may lead to being able to discard hurtful words like so much dryer lint? Note: this is not me saying that someone's pain is "dryer lint." Do you get that? If you can't, then you are no better at thinking than those people who would dismiss my claims outright about being able to dismiss words without further ado - and instead suffer even more greatly because of my words because they think I am trivializing their pain - and likely obviously thinking that their psychological suffering must have been SO MUCH GREATER than my own. THAT, my friend, is ego. You keep accusing me of having this huge ego... whatever. As far as I can see you are running in circles.
From personal experience, alcoholics also often let their egos get in the way of listening to any actual advice or criticism of their decisions. Decisions that even they lament put them in a bad way both physically and psychologically. My own brother is an alcoholic. And do you know? I never tell him he shouldn't have a drink, that he should be doing things differently, etc. I've seen my parents take that tack and he only ever gets pissed off at them, claims they couldn't possibly understand, and will then turn around and say he wishes he could just stop. I attempt to treat him only as my brother, let him know I am here whenever he needs to talk, etc. And I make our conversations about philosophical meanderings, try and give him different perspective on things in general... always steering clear of the alcohol subject - because it is a sore spot unless he is "on the wagon." (which he is at the moment, by the way). But in the end, this is still my attempting to wrestle him out from under the burdens he puts on himself. I do so by attempting to get him to change his perspective on the things he comes in contact with that trouble him so. Much as I have advocated for in this thread with people and their acceptance or rejection of words. People like you, however, want to just grant people all their pain, pat their heads gently, and tell them "it isn't your fault - take all the time you need - words DO hurt, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise." That's obviously a very rough paraphrasing of what I imagine your message to them must be like. What a waste. It is troubling that there are so many like you in that regard as well.
And they who are so suffering will not even entertain the notion of what I might have to offer them. It's not my problem. I am not actively trying to trivialize their emotional pain so much as try and inform them that it can be trivialized. Again - you can't argue against that point. You can't. You have nothing in your arsenal except to keep reiterating that these people are suffering... and yet it is needless suffering. Completely needless.
How DARE they not entertain your advice! Of course, it MIGHT be because they’ve heard your simplistic drivel hundreds of times and they already know how useless it is for them. And it’s WONDERFUL that you’re not ACTIVELY TRYING to trivialize their pain. Yet, when informed that your method often DOES make them feel as if you’re trivializing their pain, your response it basically I DON’T GIVE A FLYING FIG! So you may not be TRYING to trivialize their pain, but ultimately you don’t CARE if that’s what you end up doing. Yet another indication that your goal isn’t REALLY to help anyone, but to just bolster your ego by pretending that you helping.
I never once worded any of my statements as "I did it, why can't you?"
Yet when I suggested that that’s what you’re saying when I wrote: Your entire message seems to be is I CAN DO IT, SO WHY CAN’T YOU?
YOUR response was: That IS what I am saying.
Gosh… sure sounds like YOUR words coming out of YOUR mouth. So are you REALLY going to sit there and try to claim it’s not what you meant?
As for people who have suffered severe psychological trauma having been SO MUCH GREATER THAN YOURS, just take a minute to reread what you’ve written. You’ve admitted more than once that you haven’t suffer any major psychological trauma and grew up in a relatively stable household. Are you going to sit there and deny that as well?
From personal experience, alcoholics also often let their egos get in the way of listening to any actual advice or criticism of their decisions. Decisions that even they lament put them in a bad way both physically and psychologically. My own brother is an alcoholic. And do you know? I never tell him he shouldn't have a drink, that he should be doing things differently, etc. I've seen my parents take that tack and he only ever gets pissed off at them, claims they couldn't possibly understand, and will then turn around and say he wishes he could just stop. I attempt to treat him only as my brother, let him know I am here whenever he needs to talk, etc. And I make our conversations about philosophical meanderings, try and give him different perspective on things in general... always steering clear of the alcohol subject - because it is a sore spot unless he is "on the wagon." (which he is at the moment, by the way). But in the end, this is still my attempting to wrestle him out from under the burdens he puts on himself. I do so by attempting to get him to change his perspective on the things he comes in contact with that trouble him so. Much as I have advocated for in this thread with people and their acceptance or rejection of words. People like you, however, want to just grant people all their pain, pat their heads gently, and tell them "it isn't your fault - take all the time you need - words DO hurt, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise." That's obviously a very rough paraphrasing of what I imagine your message to them must be like. What a waste. It is troubling that there are so many like you in that regard as well.
For your brother’s sake I certainly hope that for him you at least recognize that HE suffers from a condition that you do NOT. Hopefully you don’t just tell him: I was able to choose to simply quit drinking, so you can too! Hopefully you recognize that HIS ability to quit drinking is NOT the same as yours. Hopefully you recognize that HE may need outside help in order to deal with the problem and that the first step is in recognizing that he has a problem and that he CAN’T just ‘simply stop drinking’ the way that YOU could. Sadly, the fact that you wrote: But in the end, this is still my attempting to wrestle him out from under the burdens he puts on himself. As if your brother CHOSE to be born with a physiology that processes alcohol differently than you do.
People like you, however, want to just grant people all their pain, pat their heads gently, and tell them "it isn't your fault - take all the time you need - words DO hurt, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise." That's obviously a very rough paraphrasing of what I imagine your message to them must be like. What a waste. It is troubling that there are so many like you in that regard as well.
If what you mean by ‘grant people all their pain’ is that I recognize that the pain they feel is as real to them as any pain that I feel, yes, it IS important to validate that the pain they feel is very real. Ask any health care professional and they’ll tell you the same. And yes, it IS important to let them know that their lack of tools to deal with their pin is NOT their fault. How the heck do you imagine that telling a person that’s suffered mental abuse that the reason they don’t have the tools to deal with the pain is THEIR fault is somehow helpful? And yes, it IS important to tell them that you recognize that words can hurt… but THEN you explain how if they get the proper therapy they can eventually develop the skills needed so that words don’t HAVE to hurt.
As I said, I’ve worked with people who have suffered serious mental abuse for the past 20 years. The methods I’m advocating WORK and people like you who just say: I did it, why can’t you? do far more harm than good... people who suffer in this way have TOLD me so. Yet for some sad reason your massive ego won’t allow you to consider the possibility that people who deal with mentally abused people just might know a bit more than you do.
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