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Featured What the heck new evidence for Christ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    I think there is enough out there to prove that an individual called Jesus of Nazareth existed, preached and was crucified - I think once we start down the road of the miracles and resurrection - that is when things start getting a little less straightforward
     
  2. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    There are many historians who disagree with that. Some think, like in the book the Pagan christ that pahans made up the myth to get some Pagan beliefs into Jewish beliefs.

    There was also a huge Messiah Jewish messiah movement bac, and many of them were crucified as well, Jesus may just have been a member of that group if he even existed
     
  3. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    Those same scientist say you evolved from an ape like creature and you share your ancestry with apes. Your closest relative is a chimpanzee. Do you believe that too? As far as historians and archaeologists claiming there is no evidence for Jesus? I leave you with this quote.

    "There is no scholar in any college or university in the Western World who teaches Classics, Ancient History, New Testament, Early Christianity, or any related field who doubts Jesus existed." Bart Ehrman- World Renown New Testament Scholar and Agnostic
     
  4. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    There is only one Jesus of Nazareth that we have a story about, and he performed miracles and rose from the dead. You think you know of some other Jesus of Nazareth that really existed?
     
  5. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    That is not what I said - go back and re read my post
     
  6. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    You misunderstood Mansinha's post. The post is saying that there's enough evidence to validate Jesus existed, but when you get to the resurrection and miracles it's not as straightforward. Reason being you can't prove a miracle with the same type of evidence as you can establishing someone existed. The miracles are going to be faith based while Jesus existence can be proved by secular history as well.
     
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  7. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Ehrman is known for writing books about Jesus because it sells, believing Christians can't get enough, they lap that stuff up, their eyes grow large when they read the bits about Jesus really and truly walking among men on earth, it gives them comfort.
     
  8. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    I didn't misunderstand the post. The only writings we have on Jesus are religious texts, and nothing else. Jesus does not have a place in history, that is wishful thinking.
     
  9. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    Nah. It strengthens our faith. We believe the Bible to be true anyway so we already believe Jesus walked among men on Earth. Bart Erhman being an expert in his field just validates what we already knew in the first place.
     
  10. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    You believe the story is true but it can't be verified, that is why these quests for the historical Jesus keep ending in failure. If you had real knowledge you wouldn't need faith.
     
  11. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    Really? Well Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian's texts aren't religious in nature.
     
  12. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    There are tons of history teachers and ancient history who doubts Jesus existance and I will prove it to you.Ill get a list.
     
  13. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Many people wrote about this Jesus after the gospels were written, long after his so called death, what of it?
     
  14. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    Sure it can, would one passage be enough? How about from one of the greatest Roman historians, who is not a Christian? This is from Tacitus Annals:

    "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

    This fire of Rome was in 64A.D. He says the Christians got their name from Christ. Christ was executed during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of Pontius Pilate. Sound familiar? So if you want deny Christ you have to deny the fire of Rome, Emperor Nero, Emperor Tiberius, Pontius Pilate, and the mischievous superstition that broke out(the resurrection). Since he mentions all of these as history:D
     
  15. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    All the information about Jesus comes from the New Testament, and that Jesus could not have existed.
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Right, but they did not right about Jesus. They wrote about the people that believed in him. There are no contemporary writings on Jesus.
     
  17. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

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    Please do. Make sure they actively teach here in the Western World, and teach Classics, Ancient History, New Testament, Early Christianity, or any related field. Also when he quoted this he was speaking to mystics, and told them when they get out of their own circle they would see this. The only 2 mystics that I know of are Richard Carrier and Robert Price who he actually debated and stomped. Can't wait to see your list though:D
     
  18. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    He wrote about what some Christians believed in the second century. There is no evidence from 64CE that suggests there were Christians in Rome and that Nero persecuted them.
     
  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That was written in 116 CE. Roughly eighty years after the fact. He did not talk to any eyewitnesses, he was saying what was believed about Jesus at that time:

    Tacitus on Christ - Wikipedia

    And your logic needs a bit of work. You are talking about events that span a great deal of time. He witnessed some of them. Some of them occurred long before he was born. He could easily be correct about what he observed and incorrect about what he did not observe.
     
  20. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    if someone is a historian or scientist they will not list everything they have studied, noone does that on the net tough bbut what I have is shockingly against what you have said .
     
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