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Featured What is wrong with smashing the idols?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by sovietchild, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Yes, but 8th/9th C Muslims when Islam was evolving into a distinct faith had an interest in showing that it wasn't simply an offshoot of Christianity. You see the same process in Christian history.

    The Quran is clearly a text that expects its audience to be familiar with Biblical narratives, yet Islamic history has it being revealed in a pagan environment.

    Creating parallels with the pre-Jewish Abraham both establishes the purity of the faith, and bolsters Muhammad's credentials.
     
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  2. Carlita

    Carlita Riding the waves!

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    I gave away my Quran, put the consecrated Bible I got at confirmation on the bottom shelf of my closet, gave to charity all my other bibles, sat my Buddha statue at the seat of my walk in closet, and five of the rosaries I received in a jewelry box.

    I don't believe in trashing other people's religious sacraments. If I can give it away, I would. Storing it is fine. But literally taking someone's sacred object and trashing it, to me, is total disrespect both for ones own religion as well as another.

    Edit: On note of respect, the only thing I "threw away" was the red string I received at the Hindu temple. The priest gave me "permission" to throw it away once the string broke around my wrist. It was actually a well remembered experience that an "outsider" still sees respect in other people's religious affects.
     
  3. Jedster

    Jedster Bazinga

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    Thanks. Sounds reasonable, even for the unreasonable :)
     
  4. Carlita

    Carlita Riding the waves!

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    But then if someone deleted the quran from whatever device you listen of the Quran, that's still destroying something you hold sacred just as my disrespecting/smashing Nichiren's Daimoku by singing and putting a dance to it without referring to the chant towards the object of worship.

    "Smashing" an idol would be my going into a Mosque while Muslim are praying, snatch the rug from your feet, and, without my head covered and a bikini suite as a female, begin to teach you the English version of an originally Arabic text with the side note that Allah is not only the arabic version of god, but he is also jesus christ.

    Disrespect is a form of "smashing" someone else's object, ritual, person, and so forth of worship. What is the positive moral teaching Muhammad displayed when he smashed the idols in the scripture you quoted? How does that help others-and how is that a religion of peace?
     
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  5. Carlita

    Carlita Riding the waves!

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    *cough*
     
  6. sovietchild

    sovietchild Well-Known Member

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    Prophet Ibrahim lived in a community of polytheists who worshipped idols. In fact, his father too was a well-known idolater. Having seen his father manufacture and worship idols, Prophet Ibrahim, from a very young age, couldn’t understand how people could consider these non-living objects as their gods! People would offer food to and seek forgiveness from those lifeless structures!

    Prophet Ibrahim protested against such practices and rituals many a times, each time receiving reprimand from his fellowmen and anger from his father. Yet, Prophet Ibrahim insisted that stereotypical practices such as idol worship were of no use, and humans did not need to bow down before lifeless objects.
     
  7. sovietchild

    sovietchild Well-Known Member

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    Prophet Ibrahim’s life inspires us to stand by what we believe is right. Not only did he question the illogical practices of his fellowmen, knowing that his was the voice of reason, he actively made attempts to guide his people towards the right path. And above all, when he was met with hatred and rejection by the people, he never lost confidence in the truth.
     
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  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    As I had stated earlier in a post, the event did not occur in a temple, it occurred in a shop (among many shops there) where idols were made and sold. The very people who made idols with their hands could amend or undo them, without any objection from others.
    So, there was no desecration of any temple or the people in a temple.
    While at the shop, Abraham started giving reasonable and very brilliant arguments without any anguish or any indignation and with wisdom. Right? Please
    Regards
     
  9. Shad

    Shad Well-Known Member

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    So a violent fit and destruction of others property is an example of a moral person? Wow. Like I said you lack a moral compass.
     
  10. Kirran

    Kirran
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    People don't worship the idol itself, they worship the deity or God as manifest in the idol. If you don't understand this, then all your criticisms are only strawman arguments.
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The idols distract one's attention from the real Godhead, so it serves no purpose. Please
    Did the idols ever say that
    • they perform an important role between the humans and the God,
    • and or (Supreme)God had assigned such role to them
    • or that (Supreme)God abhors direct interaction with the righteous human
    • and as such inanimates will perform an intermediary role between the righteous and the (Supreme)God?
    There is nothing like that. Right? Please
    Regards
     
  12. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Blank assertions.

    An idol is not between the human and God, the idol is God's manifestation, or a receptacle for his power.

    When I worship an idol of Shiva, I worship God Almighty. I do not conceive of the idol as in any way separate from God.
     
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Abraham gave suchlike reasonable and rational arguments to the clients of the shop to the people who came to purchase the idols as mentioned in the Genesis Rabbah, I repeat here again, one might have missed it:

    Abraham and the Idol Shop
    appears in Genesis Rabbah chapter 38 and is a biblical commentary on the early life of Abraham. The commentary explains what happened to Abraham when he was a young boy working in his father's idol shop. The story has been used as a way to discuss monotheism and faith in general.
    According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

    [​IMG]
    Abraham cast into the fire

    Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. (1)A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

    (2)Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol.
    (3)When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

    (4)Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

    Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

    Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
    Abraham and the Idol Shop - Wikipedia
    Please see the above (some four) arguments together with the demonstration done by Abraham. It was never done in a temple but in a manufacturer's shop. One may like to ask the respected Judaism people in the forum about the rationality of Abraham.
    Nothing was done by Abraham that was against the humanity. Rather. what was done to Abraham was sheer against humanity, a human being was set to fire alive . Right? Please
    Anybody, please
    Regards
     
    #333 paarsurrey, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  14. Kirran

    Kirran
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    So he was addressing a strawman, basically?
     
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  15. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    I see nothing wrong in smashing idols that are your property. But I believe it is wrong to force your religious views on others and their property. I believe the true God will judge idol worshippers, and he has not authorized his servants today to do this. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10)
     
  16. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind I poop out warp storms just coz...

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    So Abraham was engaging in the same kind of ignorant accusations as you.
     
  17. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Well, we've only had how many threads about this fairly recently? I'm pretty convinced by this point the truth of the matter will never sink in. Should I make a thread to attempt to put this in the ground? Seems like an exercise in futility, though...
     
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  18. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    I would enjoy having the opportunity to throw a shovel full of dirt in the grave.:)
     
  19. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    It also seems wrong to agree to watch the store for the owner, but then refuse to engage in the business of the owner, and in fact, work to undermine the business. Even with the justification that there is One God and that Abraham was his appointed messenger...that's being disingenuous, lying in essence...I guess it's okay if you know you've got God on your side...:rolleyes:
     
  20. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, read the Saiva Agama-s, revealed scriptures of Hinduism, that explicitly state how to make idols and temples and worship and meditate on them to achieve communion with the Supreme God Siva.
     
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