What is the US interest in Ukraine?

[Kathryn]

Speaking of living a decent, trouble free life, I need to go get dressed for work.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm just trying to live a decent, trouble free life.

Yeah, how subjective of you. But I do the same.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think we should take care of our own folks and their needs first.

Yet when we do try to do that conservatives squeal "socialist nanny state"!

 

[Kathryn]

Yeah, how subjective of you. But I do the same.

Hey, we're flawed humans, both of us.

 

[Revoltingest]

Heck if I know - that's not my circus and not my monkeys to be honest. I'm fine. My family is fine. I just think it's a shame that we're wasting tax dollars, and yes I do consider it a waste.

I'd agree, except that I see Russia not stopping
with Ukraine, & eventually invading countries
more compelling for us to defend. Spending
pennies now to save dollars later.
But I do enjoy seeing Russian soldiers being so
thoroughly defeated, & with such tactics as....
- Poisoning vodka, knowing that Russians would
steal it to over-indulge.
- Tracking Russian troop movements by the Apple
Airpods they stole.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Hey, we're flawed humans, both of us.

But therefore is all equal as evil and wrong and we should don't anything in all cases as it is all equally evil and wrong.

 

[Father Heathen]

My position is based upon the Ukranian people themselves. Not their government, not our government. Even if the support has some ulterior motives behind it, if it helps stop the rape, torture, abduction, trafficking, murder, etc. of children, then I'm for it.
One would have to be a ghoulish sociopath to shrug their shoulders at such crimes.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My position is based upon the Ukranian people themselves. Not their government, not our government. Even if the support has some ulterior motives behind it, if it helps stop the rape, torture, abduction, trafficking, murder, etc. of children, then I'm for it.
One would have to be a ghoulish sociopath to shrug their shoulders at such crimes.

That is a part of it, but not all.

 

[Stevicus]

The Americas are the West, as well. By the way... Italy and Spain are trying to recover these good relations with Latin America. Just think that 62% of Argentinians have Italian blood. The US should focus on the new continent, rather than wasting money on useless wars in the ME.

Our involvement in the useless wars in the ME has to do with our devotion to Europe. America doesn't need oil from the Middle East, as America is a major producer and there are also significant sources of oil elsewhere in the world. But Europe does need the oil, and that's why we're involved.

The key position to remember when looking at the US government is that, (1) they never initiate any hostilities on their own and (2) every military action we've taken has been totally selfless on our part, where it's all about saving the world with no thought of reward or benefit for us.

George Bush believed that 9/11 happened because "they hate us for our freedom." That perfectly illustrates the utterly clueless mindsets of America's leadership and policymakers. This is why, whenever a politician or government official makes a statement about an event or the state of the world, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[metis]

Russia was goaded into attacking, Putin was stupid enough to fall into a trap

Nonsense. Putin's favorability in Russia had fallen down to only 30%, thus he did what other notorious leaders often do to gain support and that's to create a crisis. It appears likely he thought that taking over the Ukraine would be a cake walk but has found out otherwise, plus he has lamented many times that the worst disaster for Russian since WWII was the demise of the Soviet Union that he was a part of as being the head of the notorious KGB.

BTW, just for the record, I felt that the Ukrainians would have been better off using non-violent non-cooperation, and Putin cannot afford politically to stop even now. IOW, he's basically a fascist doing what fascists usually do.

 

[lukethethird]

Nonsense. Putin's favorability in Russia had fallen down to only 30%, thus he did what other notorious leaders often do to gain support and that's to create a crisis. It appears likely he thought that taking over the Ukraine would be a cake walk but has found out otherwise, plus he has lamented many times that the worst disaster for Russian since WWII was the demise of the Soviet Union that he was a part of as being the head of the notorious KGB.

BTW, just for the record, I felt that the Ukrainians would have been better off using non-violent non-cooperation, and Putin cannot afford politically to stop even now. IOW, he's basically a fascist doing what fascists usually do.

That all may be true but going in Putin said that he did not want to control Ukraine, he went in to secure Donetsk and Luhansk, and to denazify Ukraine's military. Now Nato has Russia bogged down and they are not letting up.

 

[metis]

That all may be true but going in Putin said that he did not want to control Ukraine, he went in to secure Donetsk and Luhansk, and to denazify Ukraine's military. Now Nato has Russia bogged down and they are not letting up.

Logically, if that were to be the case, then why did he send rockets into many other areas of the Ukraine? And can't you see that Putin's use of "denazification" is a smokescreen since the Ukrainian government is not fascist? Clearly, it was a scare tactic to get other Russians on board with him, and it worked.

 

[lukethethird]

I consider our moral umbrage to be quite selective.

Yes, worthy victims vs unworthy victims.

Our hypothesis is that worthy victims will be featured prominently and dramatically, that they will be humanized, and that their victimization will receive the detail and context in story construction that will generate reader interest and sympathetic emotion. In contrast, unworthy victims will merit only slight detail, minimal humanization, and little context that will excite and enrage.

Reports of the abuses of worthy victims not only pass through the filters; they may also become the basis of sustained propaganda campaigns https://chomsky.info/consent01/

 

[lukethethird]

Logically, if that were to be the case, then why did he send rockets into many other areas of the Ukraine? And can't you see that Putin's use of "denazification" is a smokescreen since the Ukrainian government is not fascist? Clearly, it was a scare tactic to get other Russians on board with him, and it worked.

There is plenty of Nazi history in Ukraine right up to the present. Stepan Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine.

 

[metis]

There is plenty of Nazi history in Ukraine right up to the present. Stepan Bandera is a national hero in Ukraine.

There are some NAZI's here in the States as well, but that doesn't make the country or our leaders NAZI's. Yes, many Ukes sided with Hitler but also many sided with Stalin, so ...

 

[lukethethird]

There are some NAZI's here in the States as well, but that doesn't make the country or our leaders NAZI's. Yes, many Ukes sided with Hitler but also many sided with Stalin, so ...

You could educate yourself about the history of nazis in Ukraine. Have you not seen the nazi badges on Ukraines army uniforms?

 

[metis]

You could educate yourself about the history of nazis in Ukraine. Have you not seen the nazi badges on Ukraines army uniforms?

No, I haven't, although there may be some. However, "some" is not "most" or "all".

BTW, aren't you even aware that Zelenskyy is Jewish?

I studied the Holocaust in Poland, Israel, and here in the States, and I also taught a three-week unit on it in my poli sci course, thus I have spent enormous amounts of time on this subject. So, let me know when you have something of substance to offer, OK?

 

[lukethethird]

No, I haven't, although there may be some. However, "some" is not "most" or "all".

BTW, aren't you even aware that Zelenskyy is Jewish?

I studied the Holocaust in Poland, Israel, and here in the States, and I also taught a three-week unit on it in my poli sci course, thus I have spent enormous amounts of time on this subject. So, let me know when you have something of substance to offer, OK?

You must have not seen Zelensky posing with soldiers wearing the Nazi patches on their uniforms, it's not just some. The mainstream media downplays the backing of these Nazi battalions. These Nazis wouldn't hesitate to kill Zelensky if he tried to make peace with Russia as he promised to do when running for election.

 

[metis]

You must have not seen Zelensky posing with soldiers wearing the Nazi patches on their uniforms, it's not just some.

Well, maybe read this, which took me about 20 seconds to find: Truth behind 'nazi-like' symbol on Zelensky's T-shirt

The mainstream media downplays the backing of these Nazi battalions.

Oh yes, the "mainstream media"! Maybe consider actual studying, OK?

 

[lukethethird]

BTW, aren't you even aware that Zelenskyy is Jewish?

Who was it that read Zelensky the riot act once he got elected?