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What is the US interest in Ukraine?
- Thread starter atanu
- Start date
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
In part, yes.
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Ukraine
Well, "officially," the US has no real tangible interests in any of its foreign policy escapades. It's all about a purely noble and selfless desire to make the world safe for democracy. We get nothing out of it; it's all about our love and devotion to the rest of the world. We just want everyone on the planet to enjoy the freedom and democracy that we have had. It's all for love - even if it breaks us and leaves our own people impoverished.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Only in the popular press and in grandstanding speeches.
The real reason is liberty of Europe, or at least the avoidance of a general war in Europe. Such a war would be immeasurably costly to the US, regardless of whether it participated itself in the war or not. The economic damage and the damage to global US interests would be catastrophic. If Putin takes Ukraine he can take other countries: the Baltic states, Moldova, Poland even,...... We know his goal is to rebuild the empire of the USSR as far as he can, seeing himself as a new Peter the Great. He won't stop. He needs to be stopped.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
@atanu , what are your thoughts on this?:
Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine, U.N. panel says
The findings by the United Nations experts are the latest allegations of war crimes against Russia since its invasion of Ukraine.
www.nbcnews.com
Also, apparently India gets on it's knees to lick Putin's boots. Why?
And there's curbing Putin's desire to re-create a Soviet empire.
This is a long term threat.
Of course to fans of socialism, it might be the opposite of a threat.
We "know" this, how?
See post #8.
exchemist
Veteran Member
He has said as much, in various speeches - though he has not explicitly compared himself to Peter the Great.
See post #10.
We Never Know
No Slack
See post #23
A prime post indeed.
I'd have to see actual quotes to understand what you're talking about. I've heard some of his speeches, and I read it more as a country that feels threatened, encroached upon, and encircled - something that's been a familiar pattern throughout their history.
Historically, the Russians never really had any great need or desire to conquer the rest of Europe. Most of their national security aspirations focused on their isolation and the desire to have permanent ice-free outlets to the sea. This is also figured in to their long-term goal of reclaiming Constantinople for Orthodoxy.
More often than not, it's been the countries of Europe invading and attacking Russia, not the other way around. People often forget these little tidbits of historical trivia when looking at situations like this The terrain is largely flat, with few natural defenses, so because of this, the Russians have felt the need to build up a buffer zone to protect themselves from the more powerful and (in their eyes) dangerous countries of Europe.
I'm not saying this as a justification for what the USSR did, or for what Putin is doing now, which is quite atrocious and horrific. There's no denying this, and he's effectively destroyed whatever legitimate interests Russia might have had in regards to NATO, Eastern Europe, and their border dispute with Ukraine. But despite that, I don't believe that this would constitute any conscious or active desire to conquer all of Europe. They grabbed territory when they could, when the opportunity presented itself, such as when they were on the winning side of the Napoleonic Wars and got huge spoils in return.
He may want back the same buffer zone that Russia had before, but the fact that many of those nations have now joined NATO has complicated this to a large degree. The possibility of Ukraine joining NATO was apparently completely unacceptable in their eyes, which has led us to this current state of affairs.
Putin is no Peter the Great. He's not even Stalin. If we're going to compare him to a leader from Russia's past, then he's Nicholas II.
And the only reason we're stuck in this morass is for just one reason - Russia still has nukes. There may be a solution, there may be a way out of this, but before that can even be discussed, the fighting has to stop. But with the immense damage and loss of life that's happened in Ukraine, there's going to be a lot of bad blood for generations. They might ultimately make peace, but it won't really be over.
All I'm saying here is that we should try to approach this carefully. Putin may want to do a lot of things, although I don't think anyone can read his mind at this point. He may even think he's Peter the Great, but ultimately, we're dealing with Russia as a whole, not just Putin.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I don't get why so many people believe that the Soviet Union was socialism, it was State capitalism.
State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor).
It has nothing to do with socialism, but for some reason, people assume that it what it is.
Hopefully, this will explain what is meant by actual Socialism and then you/people can compare that with that of Soviet Union and see if you think that is the same:
lukethethird
unknown member
This Ukraine war has been a huge success for the warmongers and the war profiteers that received government contracts worth billions of dollars to build arms. For the survivors in Ukraine it will only get worse and then they will be forgotten once the US and its Nato lackies find another war. The US has ships on the other side of the planet surrounding China right now, they're next and then we will all be done.
State capitalism is socialism.
Government (ie, the people) owns the means of production.
Capitalism - Wikipedia
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.[1][2][3][4] Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, price system, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor.[5][6] In a market economy, decision-making and investments are determined by owners of wealth, property, or ability to maneuver capital or production ability in capital and financial markets—whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.[7]
RF contributes to the confusion. In its definitions for
restricted forums, it calls state capitalism (ie, socialism)
"capitalism", despite the fact that there is no private
ownership or market freedom.