What is the Case for Re-incarnation

[Muffled]

I am definitely not an expert on this subject but maybe there are some who can talk about it.

The Bible does not have many references to this. The best is the statement by Jesus that John the Baptist is Elijah.

Although the Bible doesn't talk much about re-incarnation, it also does not suggest a continuing creation. The Bible talks about creation as a one time event. If Cain, Abel and Seth were not created (the bodies), where did their spirits come from?

 

[MaddLlama]

Reincarnation is not a Christian idea, therefore it would be silly to try and use the Bible to explain it. Just like if you wanted to learn about rocket science, you wouldn't pull out your Bible.
And, as far as I know, most (if not all) religions who adhere to the idea of reincarnation don't believe in the Biblical stories or the existence of many of its characters like Cain and Abel.

 

[ChristineES]

I always thought that Reincarnation was a Hindu belief. I thought it was something like how well you do in one life determines what level you are born as in the next one and the goal is to do better. (If I am wrong feel free to correct this, as it is very simplistic)

 

[MaddLlama]

I always thought that Reincarnation was a Hindu belief. I thought it was something like how well you do in one life determines what level you are born as in the next one and the goal is to do better. (If I am wrong feel free to correct this, as it is very simplistic)

Buddhists and many Pagans also believe in reincarnation, but as far as I know all 3 see it differently.

 

[Gentoo]

Buddhists and many Pagans also believe in reincarnation, but as far as I know all 3 see it differently.

Not only that, but individuals within those three can see it very differently from one another.

 

[uumckk16]

I am definitely not an expert on this subject but maybe there are some who can talk about it.

The Bible does not have many references to this. The best is the statement by Jesus that John the Baptist is Elijah.

Although the Bible doesn't talk much about re-incarnation, it also does not suggest a continuing creation. The Bible talks about creation as a one time event. If Cain, Abel and Seth were not created (the bodies), where did their spirits come from?

I'm confused by your thread title. Are you asking for the case for reincarnation from a Biblical perspective or just in general?

 

[Muffled]

I'm confused by your thread title. Are you asking for the case for reincarnation from a Biblical perspective or just in general?

In general. I talked about what I was familiar with. What difference does it make that different religions have different views as long as those views can be authenticated. There is much in Hinduism that is the result of meditation not a direct word from God. Of course it is possible to hear from God through meditation but it is equally likely that meditation is not much more than the perambulations of the mind.

Buddhism is all perambulations of the mind because there is no belief in a deity providing information.

 

[MaddLlama]

Can any belief about the after-life be "authenticated"?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

In general. I talked about what I was familiar with. What difference does it make that different religions have different views as long as those views can be authenticated. There is much in Hinduism that is the result of meditation not a direct word from God. Of course it is possible to hear from God through meditation but it is equally likely that meditation is not much more than the perambulations of the mind.

Buddhism is all perambulations of the mind because there is no belief in a deity providing information.

Quite right IMO. The main practice in Buddhism is meditation in order to become familiar with our mind. We don't rely on a deity to provide information since we could very likely be deluded in how we see "God."

From how I see rebirth, it makes perfect sense that if we believe in the laws of karma, that one lifetime is not sufficient to reap what has been sown. If one were to be born in "unfortunate circumstances" and suffers mightily through a single lifetime with disease, poverty, war, etc. despite being morally upright and compassionate, it is a very good educated guess that karma is merely surfacing from a previous life - this particular person looks undeserving of such horrific suffering.

Good and bad things happen not because of some divine appointment, reward, or punishment. They happen because of what karmic seeds we have planted. Good things and bad things happen and they are impermanent in our realm. Therefore, one lifetime that may or may not catastrophically end quickly does not account for whatever good or bad deeds (and their intentions) that have been committed.

Multiple lifetimes and the laws of karma (what goes around comes around) explain why good things happen to bad people and why bad things happen to good people.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Mike182]

Buddhists and many Pagans also believe in reincarnation, but as far as I know all 3 see it differently.

each believe in Karma as well, though believe Karma is different which affects how they see reincarnation

the only evidence i could possibly present is the testimony of past life regression, which is as entirely subjective as the evidence for God.

 

[wizanda]

22:
O people! if you are in doubt about the raising, then surely We created you from dust, then from a small seed, then from a clot, then from a lump of flesh, complete in make and incomplete, that We may make clear to you; and We cause what We please to stay in the wombs (Matrix) till an appointed time, then We bring you forth as babies, then that you may attain your maturity; and of you is he who is caused to die, and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life, so that after having knowledge he does not know anything; and you see the earth sterile land, but when We send down on it the water, it stirs and swells and brings forth of every kind a beautiful herbage. (5)
This is because Allah is the Truth and because He gives life to the dead and because He has power over all things (6)
And because the hour is coming, there is no doubt about it; and because Allah shall raise up those who are in the graves. (7)

Jer 1:5
(5) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb (matrix) I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Jer 20:17-18
(17) Because he slew me not from the womb (matrix); or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.
(18) Wherefore came I forth out of the womb (matrix) to see labour and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?

Job 3:10-11
(10) Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
(11) Why died I not from the womb (matrix)? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

Job 10:18
(18) Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb (matrix)? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!


Job 24:20
(20) The womb (matrix) shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree.


Job 31:14-15
(14) What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him?
(15) Did not he that made me in the womb (matrix) make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb (matrix)?

Job 38:8
(8) Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb (matrix)?

 

[MaddLlama]

What does any of that have to do with reincarnation?

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

In the Baha'i view, reincarnation simply doesn't exist, and our scriptures explain this in detail!

It's once through this world, and then on to the Next Life.

Simple as that.

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Muffled]

Quite right IMO. The main practice in Buddhism is meditation in order to become familiar with our mind. We don't rely on a deity to provide information since we could very likely be deluded in how we see "God."

From how I see rebirth, it makes perfect sense that if we believe in the laws of karma, that one lifetime is not sufficient to reap what has been sown. If one were to be born in "unfortunate circumstances" and suffers mightily through a single lifetime with disease, poverty, war, etc. despite being morally upright and compassionate, it is a very good educated guess that karma is merely surfacing from a previous life - this particular person looks undeserving of such horrific suffering.

Good and bad things happen not because of some divine appointment, reward, or punishment. They happen because of what karmic seeds we have planted. Good things and bad things happen and they are impermanent in our realm. Therefore, one lifetime that may or may not catastrophically end quickly does not account for whatever good or bad deeds (and their intentions) that have been committed.

Multiple lifetimes and the laws of karma (what goes around comes around) explain why good things happen to bad people and why bad things happen to good people.




Peace,
Mystic

I should think however that karma is based on dharma even if it is some kind of logical philosophy devised from the foundations of Buddhism.

 

[Muffled]

Greetings!

In the Baha'i view, reincarnation simply doesn't exist, and our scriptures explain this in detail!

It's once through this world, and then on to the Next Life.

Simple as that.

Regards,

Bruce

Sure and Christian theologians explain away the reference toreincarnation made by Jesus. Show us the scriptures and let us judge for ourselves.

 

[Muffled]

What does any of that have to do with reincarnation?

In a way a resurrection is a special form of reincarnation that is not a rebirth.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I should think however that karma is based on dharma even if it is some kind of logical philosophy devised from the foundations of Buddhism.

And the problem with that is?




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Muffled]

And the problem with that is?




Peace,
Mystic

None from a Buddhist viewpoint. How else would one be able to take a "right action." However from an existential point of view sa Jean Paul Satre said paraprased: without a god there is no right or wrong. Everyone can come up with their own standard. Buddha came up with one he liked that no harm should be done. That is his opinion no matter how elucidated he thinks he is.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

None from a Buddhist viewpoint. How else would one be able to take a "right action." However from an existential point of view sa Jean Paul Satre said paraprased: without a god there is no right or wrong. Everyone can come up with their own standard. Buddha came up with one he liked that no harm should be done. That is his opinion no matter how elucidated he thinks he is.

Gotta go and take the kids to the dentist, but I'll have to think about what you just wrote and how it's relevent to the OP. Dharmic religions have given great cases for re-incarnation/rebirth, but I'm not sure what your point is in your argument. If you simply don't believe it, don't believe it. No harm done.

Oh, and I'm sure Buddha would very heartily and happily agree with you that this is just his opinion.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[doppelganger]

without a god there is no right or wrong. Everyone can come up with their own standard.

With a "God" there is no right or wrong either. First, you just pick the view of God that lines up with what you want to be, and then, second, justify whatever you want to do by picking whichever scriptural authority you need at the moment.

Getting rid of moral authority altogether and asking people to follow their conscience (the Law of Love written on their hearts), makes "right" and "wrong" obsolete. See "The Legal Paradox."