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What is the Case for Re-incarnation

Pariah

Let go
However from an existential point of view sa Jean Paul Satre said paraprased: without a god there is no right or wrong.

I believe Dostoevsky made famous the statement: "Without God, everything is permitted."

Everyone can come up with their own standard. Buddha came up with one he liked that no harm should be done. That is his opinion no matter how elucidated he thinks he is.

God is no different. Assuming God exists, God arbitrarily drew lines of morality across the map (and, as I've heard, crosses most all of them) and expects his followers to align themselves with such teachings.

Buddha is no different. In fact, in some sects of Buddhism, Buddha is God, so I'm sure they could throw the argument right back at you. If you must use a poor analogy, compare Buddha to Jesus.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I believe Dostoevsky made famous the statement: "Without God, everything is permitted."

The phrase (from the character Ivan Karamazov) is "Everything is lawful" and "without immortality, there is no virtue." It's a lot more complicated than just that, though, as he explains in "Rebellion," even with immortality, there is no virtue. And Smerdyakov takes this statement in a way not intended by Ivan.

"But I've still better things about children. I've collected a great, great deal about Russian children, Alyosha. There was a little girl of five who was hated by her father and mother, 'most worthy and respectable people, of good education and breeding.' You see, I must repeat again, it is a peculiar characteristic of many people, this love of torturing children, and children only. To all other types of humanity these torturers behave mildly and benevolently, like cultivated and humane Europeans; but they are very fond of tormenting children, even fond of children themselves in that sense. it's just their defencelessness that tempts the tormentor, just the angelic confidence of the child who has no refuge and no appeal, that sets his vile blood on fire. In every man, of course, a demon lies hidden- the demon of rage, the demon of lustful heat at the screams of the tortured victim, the demon of lawlessness let off the chain, the demon of diseases that follow on vice, gout, kidney disease, and so on.

This poor child of five was subjected to every possible torture by those cultivated parents. They beat her, thrashed her, kicked her for no reason till her body was one bruise. Then, they went to greater refinements of cruelty- shut her up all night in the cold and frost in a privy, and because she didn't ask to be taken up at night (as though a child of five sleeping its angelic, sound sleep could be trained to wake and ask), they smeared her face and filled her mouth with excrement, and it was her mother, her mother did this. And that mother could sleep, hearing the poor child's groans! Can you understand why a little creature, who can't even understand what's done to her, should beat her little aching heart with her tiny fist in the dark and the cold, and weep her meek unresentful tears to dear, kind God to protect her? Do you understand that, friend and brother, you pious and humble novice? Do you understand why this infamy must be and is permitted? Without it, I am told, man could not have existed on earth, for he could not have known good and evil . . .

You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really may happen that if I live to that moment, or rise again to see it, I, too, perhaps, may cry aloud with the rest, looking at the mother embracing the child’s torturer, ‘Thou art just, O Lord!’ but I don’t want to cry aloud then. While there is still time, I hasten to protect myself, and so I renounce the higher harmony altogether. It’s not worth the tears of that one tortured child who beat itself on the breast with its little fist and prayed in its stinking outhouse, with its unexpiated tears to ‘dear, kind God’! It’s not worth it, because those tears are unatoned for. They must be atoned for, or there can be no harmony. But how? How are you going to atone for them? Is it possible? By their being avenged? But what do I care for avenging them? What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don’t want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price . . . Tell me yourself, I challenge your answer. Imagine that you are creating a fabric of human destiny with the object of making men happy in the end, giving them peace and rest at last, but that it was essential and inevitable to torture to death only one tiny creature — that baby beating its breast with its fist, for instance — and to found that edifice on its unavenged tears, would you consent to be the architect on those conditions? Tell me, and tell the truth.”

“No, I wouldn’t consent,” said Alyosha softly.

“And can you admit the idea that men for whom you are building it would agree to accept their happiness on the foundation of the unexpiated blood of a little victim? And accepting it would remain happy for ever?”

“No, I can’t admit it. Brother.”
 

arthra

Baha'i
I read the post by Bruce earlier about the Baha'i view and felt that maybe a more thorough explanation could be given...

The Baha'i view is as Bruce posted that we have one life on this earth...and after that are the spiritual worlds... and progression through them... They are spiritual worlds though not material ones so we don't accept reincarnation...

but Abdul-Baha provides an expalnation for the concept that may interest some and that is that reincarnation is based on the ancient view of the cyclic nature of life... The seasons come and go and repeat themselves.. We see trees and blossoms in seasonal cyclic kind of phenomenau...

Many early thinkiers among them the ancient Greeks, HIndus, and other peoples viewed time as a cyclical... The view of time as having a beginning and an end came later...so life changes and actually doesn't repeat itself but is probably more like a spiral than a circle.. A spiral when seen from a distance can have a direction over all..while a circle keeps repeating itself.

If you read the Buddhist and Hindu accounts of the various stories about reincarnation they usually portray a world that is very much like the previous one, thus the circle repeats itself. So the concept of reincarnation was based an early view that life was cylclical. We know today that life does not really repeat itself and that nature and history are more about progressive change or evolution over time ...for sure with some repetitions but not just cyclic or returning on itself either.

- Art

: hamster :
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Speaking of Nietzshe, could total return (total recurrence) be considered a physical form of reincarnation?

The idea was originally Pythagorean, and makes the case that if the Universe if finite, and time infinite, then everything will repeat itself. Everyone will be born, live exactly the same way, and die again. Over and over again.

 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I am definitely not an expert on this subject but maybe there are some who can talk about it.

The Bible does not have many references to this. The best is the statement by Jesus that John the Baptist is Elijah.

Although the Bible doesn't talk much about re-incarnation, it also does not suggest a continuing creation. The Bible talks about creation as a one time event. If Cain, Abel and Seth were not created (the bodies), where did their spirits come from?
Well, Can, Abel and Seth were Adam's children, so I'm confused as to why you would name them. They are no different than any of the rest of us, since we were all born to mortal parents. The Bible does, however, refer to God as the "Father of spirits" and it does say we will "return" to Him. To me that implies that we are, in fact, His spirit children and that our spirits were once in His presence. (We wouldn't be able to return to Him if we hadn't been with Him before.)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I apologize if this issue has already been raised, but the biggest problem I personally have with the idea of re-incarnation is that most people I have talked to about it say that the re-incarnated being does not remember prior lives. If this is the case, and if the whole point is to become better with each incarnation, how is one to learn from one's prior mistakes. It seems to me that it would be entirely possible to be re-incarnated a million times and not be any better off the millionth time than the first time if you were essentially starting from scratch each time. I don't see the benefit of each previous incarnation unless the knowledge one gained in it could be retained and used to one's benefit in the next life. Could somebody help me out here?
 

Gentoo

The Feisty Penguin
I apologize if this issue has already been raised, but the biggest problem I personally have with the idea of re-incarnation is that most people I have talked to about it say that the re-incarnated being does not remember prior lives. If this is the case, and if the whole point is to become better with each incarnation, how is one to learn from one's prior mistakes. It seems to me that it would be entirely possible to be re-incarnated a million times and not be any better off the millionth time than the first time if you were essentially starting from scratch each time. I don't see the benefit of each previous incarnation unless the knowledge one gained in it could be retained and used to one's benefit in the next life. Could somebody help me out here?

According to my ideas, our conscious minds are erased, we still have our sub-conscious memories. Have you ever known something and didn't know where the knowledge came from? Just knew it? Or learned a new skill with a great ease, as if you've done it a thousand times in the past? That's what I'm talking about.

I believe that it's in the sub-conscious that we can tell right from wrong, what we believe and what we don't and it's the conscious that translates it into something we can actually comprehend. It's that gut feeling of "I know this is wrong, but I don't know why it's wrong".

A little disconnected, but does that help?
 

lunamoth

Will to love
each believe in Karma as well, though believe Karma is different which affects how they see reincarnation :)

the only evidence i could possibly present is the testimony of past life regression, which is as entirely subjective as the evidence for God.

Does anyone ever reincarnate into the past, and remember lives lived in the future (compared to the one they are in now)?

If not, why?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings redux!

Show us the scriptures and let us judge for ourselves.

We deliver! :)

From the Baha'i scriptures:


“CHAPTER 81


“Question. - What is the truth of the question of reincarnation, which is believed by some people?

“Answer. - The object of what we are about to say is to explain the reality - not to deride the beliefs of other people; it is only to explain the facts; that is all. We do not oppose anyone's ideas, nor do we approve of criticism.

“Know, then, that those who believe in reincarnation are of two classes: one class does not believe in the spiritual punishments and rewards of the other world, and they suppose that man by reincarnation and return to this world gains rewards and recompenses; they consider heaven and hell to be restricted to this world and do not speak of the existence of the other world. Among these there are two further divisions. One division thinks that man sometimes returns to this world in the form of an animal in order to undergo severe punishment and that, after enduring this painful torment, he will be released from the animal world and will come again into the human world; this is called transmigration. The other division thinks that from the human world one again returns to the human world, and that by this return rewards and punishments for a former life are obtained; this is called reincarnation. Neither of these classes speak of any other world besides this one.

“The second sort of believers in reincarnation affirm the existence of the other world, and they consider reincarnation the means of becoming perfect - that is, they think that man, by going from and coming again to this world, will gradually acquire perfections, until he reaches the inmost perfection. In other words, that men are composed of matter and force: matter in the beginning - that is to say, in the first cycle - is imperfect, but on coming repeatedly to this world it progresses and acquires refinement and delicacy, until it becomes like a polished mirror; and force, which is no other than spirit, is realized in it with all the perfections.

“This is the presentation of the subject by those who believe in reincarnation and transmigration. We have condensed it; if we entered into the details, it would take much time. This summary is sufficient. No logical arguments and proofs of this question are brought forward; they are only suppositions and inferences from conjectures, and not conclusive arguments. Proofs must be asked for from the believers in reincarnation, and not conjectures, suppositions and imaginations.

“But you have asked for arguments of the impossibility of reincarnation. This is what we must now explain. The first argument for its impossibility is that the outward is the expression of the inward; the earth is the mirror of the Kingdom; the material world corresponds to the spiritual world. Now observe that in the sensible world appearances are not repeated, for no being in any respect is identical with, nor the same as, another being. The sign of singleness is visible and apparent in all things. If all the granaries of the world were full of grain, you would not find two grains absolutely alike, the same and identical without any distinction. It is certain that there will be differences and distinctions between them. As the proof of uniqueness exists in all things, and the Oneness and Unity of God is apparent in the reality of all things, the repetition of the same appearance is absolutely impossible. Therefore, reincarnation, which is the repeated appearance of the same spirit with its former essence and condition in this same world of appearance, is impossible and unrealizable. As the repetition of the same appearance is impossible and interdicted for each of the material beings, so for spiritual beings also, a return to the same condition, whether in the arc of descent or in the arc of ascent, is interdicted and impossible, for the material corresponds to the spiritual.

“Nevertheless, the return of material beings with regard to species is evident; so the trees which during former years brought forth leaves, blossoms and fruits in the coming years will bring forth exactly the same leaves, blossoms and fruits. This is called the repetition of species. If anyone makes an objection saying that the leaf, the blossom and the fruit have been decomposed, and have descended from the vegetable world to the mineral world, and again have come back from the mineral world to the
vegetable world, and, therefore, there has been a repetition - the answer is that the blossom, the leaf and the fruit of last year were decomposed, and these combined elements were disintegrated and were dispersed in space, and that the particles of the leaf and fruit of last year, after decomposition, have not again become combined, and have not returned. On the contrary, by the composition of new elements, the species has returned. It is the same with the human body, which after decomposition becomes disintegrated, and the elements which composed it are dispersed. If, in like manner, this body should again return from the mineral or vegetable world, it would not have exactly the same composition of elements as the former man. Those elements have been decomposed and dispersed; they are dissipated in this vast space. Afterward, other particles of elements have been combined, and a second body has been formed; it may be that one of the particles of the former individual has entered into the composition of the succeeding individual, but these particles have not been conserved and kept, exactly and completely, without addition or diminution, so that they may be combined again, and from that composition and mingling another individual may come into existence. So it cannot be proved that this body with all its particles has returned; that the former man has become the latter; and that, consequently, there has been repetition; that the spirit also, like the body, has returned; and that after death its essence has come back to this world.

“If we say that this reincarnation is for acquiring perfections so that matter may become refined and delicate, and that the light of the spirit may be manifest in it with the greatest perfection, this also is mere imagination. For, even supposing we believe in this argument, still change of nature is impossible through renewal and return. The essence of imperfection, by returning, does not become the reality of perfection; complete darkness, by returning, does not become the source of light; the essence of weakness is not transformed into power and might by returning, and an earthly nature does not become a heavenly reality. The tree of Zaqqum,(1) no matter how frequently it may come back, will not bring forth sweet fruit, and the good tree, no matter how often it may return, will not bear a bitter fruit. Therefore, it is evident that returning and coming back to the material world does not become the cause of perfection. This theory has no proofs nor evidences; it is simply an idea. No, in reality the cause of acquiring perfections is the bounty of God.

“The Theosophists believe that man on the arc of ascent(2) will return many times until he reaches the Supreme Center; in that condition matter becomes a clear mirror, the light of the spirit will shine upon it with its full power, and essential perfection will be acquired. Now, this is an established and deep theological proposition, that the material worlds are terminated at the end of the arc of descent, and that the condition of man is at the end of the arc of descent, and at the beginning of the arc of ascent, which is opposite to the Supreme Center. Also, from the beginning to the end of the arc of ascent, there are numerous spiritual degrees. The arc of descent is called beginning,(3) and that of ascent is called progress.(4) The arc of descent ends in materialities, and the arc of ascent ends in spiritualities. The point of the compass in describing a circle makes no retrograde motion, for this would be contrary to the natural movement and the divine order; otherwise, the symmetry of the circle would be spoiled.

[CONTINUES]
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I apologize if this issue has already been raised, but the biggest problem I personally have with the idea of re-incarnation is that most people I have talked to about it say that the re-incarnated being does not remember prior lives. If this is the case, and if the whole point is to become better with each incarnation, how is one to learn from one's prior mistakes. It seems to me that it would be entirely possible to be re-incarnated a million times and not be any better off the millionth time than the first time if you were essentially starting from scratch each time. I don't see the benefit of each previous incarnation unless the knowledge one gained in it could be retained and used to one's benefit in the next life. Could somebody help me out here?

How much do you remember when you were 2 weeks old? Not much? Anything? Do you remember what you had to eat for lunch on September 7, 1981? Why not? Memory tends to get very fuzzy, and so forgive me if I sound trite, but how does one expect to remember anything...........even significant events..........from previous lives if you can only remember a few things from when you're a toddler?

It is a good question, though. :)




Peace,
Mystic
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
[CONTINUED]
“Moreover, this material world has not such value or such excellence that man, after having escaped from this cage, will desire a second time to fall into this snare. No, through the Eternal Bounty the worth and true ability of man becomes apparent and visible by traversing the degrees of existence, and not by returning. When the shell is once opened, it will be apparent and evident whether it contains a pearl or worthless matter. When once the plant has grown it will bring forth either thorns or flowers; there is no need for it to grow up again. Besides, advancing and moving in the worlds in a direct order according to the natural law is the cause of existence, and a movement contrary to the system and law of nature is the cause of nonexistence. The return of the soul after death is contrary to the natural movement, and opposed to the divine system.

“Therefore, by returning, it is absolutely impossible to obtain existence; it is as if man, after being freed from the womb, should return to it a second time. Consider what a puerile imagination this is which is implied by the belief in reincarnation and transmigration. Believers in it consider the body as a vessel in which the spirit is contained, as water is contained in a cup; this water has been taken from one cup and poured into another. This is child's play. They do not realize that the spirit is an incorporeal being, and does not enter and come forth, but is only connected with the body as the sun is with the mirror. If it were thus, and the spirit by returning to this material world could pass through the degrees and attain to essential perfection, it would be better if God prolonged the life of the spirit in the material world until it had acquired perfections and graces; it then would not be necessary for it to taste of the cup of death, or to acquire a second life.

“The idea that existence is restricted to this perishable world, and the denial of the existence of divine worlds, originally proceeded from the imaginations of certain believers in reincarnation; but the divine worlds are infinite. If the divine worlds culminated in this material world, creation would be futile: nay, existence would be pure child's play. The result of these endless beings, which is the noble existence of man, would come and go for a few days in this perishable dwelling, and after receiving punishments and rewards, at last all would become perfect. The divine creation and the infinite existing beings would be perfected and completed, and then the Divinity of the Lord, and the names and qualities of God, on behalf of these spiritual beings, would, as regards their effect, result in laziness and inaction! "Glory to thy Lord, the Lord Who is sanctified from all their descriptions."(5)

“Such were the limited minds of the former philosophers, like Ptolemy and the others who believed and imagined that the world, life and existence were restricted to this terrestrial globe, and that this boundless space was confined within the nine spheres of heaven, and that all were empty and void. Consider how greatly their thoughts were limited and how weak their minds. Those who believe in reincarnation think that the spiritual worlds are restricted to the worlds of human imagination. Moreover, some of them, like the Druzes and the Nusayris, think that existence is restricted to this physical world. What an ignorant supposition! For in this universe of God, which appears in the most complete perfection, beauty and grandeur, the luminous stars of the material universe are innumerable! Then we must reflect how limitless and infinite are the spiritual worlds, which are the essential foundation. "Take heed ye who are endued with discernment."(6)

“But let us return to our subject. In the Divine Scriptures and Holy Books "return" is spoken of, but the ignorant have not understood the meaning, and those who believed in reincarnation have made conjectures on the subject. For what the divine Prophets meant by "return" is not the return of the essence, but that of the qualities; it is not the return of the Manifestation, but that of the perfections. In the Gospel it says that John, the son of Zacharias, is Elias. These words do not mean the return of the rational soul and personality of Elias in the body of John, but rather that the perfections and qualities of Elias were manifested and appeared in John.

“A lamp shone in this room last night, and when tonight another lamp shines, we say the light of last night is again shining. Water flows from a fountain; then it ceases; and when it begins to flow a second time, we say this water is the same water flowing again; or we say this light is identical with the former light. It is the same with the spring of last year, when blossoms, flowers and sweet-scented herbs bloomed, and delicious fruits were brought forth; next year we say that those delicious fruits have come back, and those blossoms, flowers and blooms have returned and come again. This does not mean that exactly the same particles composing the flowers of last year have, after decomposition, been again combined and have then come back and returned. On the contrary, the meaning is that the delicacy, freshness, delicious perfume and wonderful color of the flowers of last year are visible and apparent in exactly the same manner in the flowers of this year. Briefly, this expression refers only to the resemblance and likeness which exist between the former and latter flowers. The "return" which is mentioned in the Divine Scriptures is this: it is fully explained by the Supreme Pen(7) in the Kitab-i-Iqan. Refer to it, so that you may be informed of the truth of the divine mysteries.

"Upon you be greetings and praise.”

[Footnotes:]
1. The infernal tree mentioned in the Qur’án.
2. i.e., of the Circle of Existence.
3. Lit., bringing forth.
4. Lit., producing something new.
5. Cf. Qur’án 37:180.
6. Qur’án 59:2.
7. Bahá’u’lláh [Founder of the Baha’i Faith].


(Some Answered Questions, pp. 282-289)

Best, :)

Bruce
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Greetings redux!



We deliver! :)


“CHAPTER 81


“Question. - What is the truth of the question of reincarnation, which is believed by some people?

“Answer. - The object of what we are about to say is to explain the reality - not to deride the beliefs of other people; it is only to explain the facts; that is all. We do not oppose anyone's ideas, nor do we approve of criticism.


This is interesting already. I forgot that Bahai's corner the market of "truth." But OK.......I'll play along. :areyoucra



“Know, then, that those who believe in reincarnation are of two classes: one class does not believe in the spiritual punishments and rewards of the other world, and they suppose that man by reincarnation and return to this world gains rewards and recompenses; they consider heaven and hell to be restricted to this world and do not speak of the existence of the other world. Among these there are two further divisions. One division thinks that man sometimes returns to this world in the form of an animal in order to undergo severe punishment and that, after enduring this painful torment, he will be released from the animal world and will come again into the human world; this is called transmigration. The other division thinks that from the human world one again returns to the human world, and that by this return rewards and punishments for a former life are obtained; this is called reincarnation. Neither of these classes speak of any other world besides this one.

Sources ought to be checked on this claim..........Buddhism often discusses varying realms besides the human and animal realms. Plus, reasons cited here for rebirth into the animal realm are simply false. There isn't any reward or punishment in karma and rebirth - animals and any other incarnations in samsara are living out their karma until certain karmic seeds are extinguished. Whatever karmic seeds are planted by the time of death are the indicators for future rebirths.

“The second sort of believers in reincarnation affirm the existence of the other world, and they consider reincarnation the means of becoming perfect - that is, they think that man, by going from and coming again to this world, will gradually acquire perfections, until he reaches the inmost perfection. In other words, that men are composed of matter and force: matter in the beginning - that is to say, in the first cycle - is imperfect, but on coming repeatedly to this world it progresses and acquires refinement and delicacy, until it becomes like a polished mirror; and force, which is no other than spirit, is realized in it with all the perfections.
“This is the presentation of the subject by those who believe in reincarnation and transmigration. We have condensed it; if we entered into the details, it would take much time. This summary is sufficient. No logical arguments and proofs of this question are brought forward; they are only suppositions and inferences from conjectures, and not conclusive arguments. Proofs must be asked for from the believers in reincarnation, and not conjectures, suppositions and imaginations.


Forgive me if I sound rude, but the bold statement is rubbish. All of the suppositions on the topic of reincarnation from the Buddhist standpoint are from egoistic grasping, and that we are somehow maintaining this "I" that I call "me" from lifetime to lifetime.

Please take the time to read up on the topic of emptiness from the Buddha-Dharma.

The rest of the post describes in detail the position against the erroneous suppositions. IMO, it's a horrible argument and very insulting.




Peace,
Mystic
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
I apologize if this issue has already been raised, but the biggest problem I personally have with the idea of re-incarnation is that most people I have talked to about it say that the re-incarnated being does not remember prior lives. If this is the case, and if the whole point is to become better with each incarnation, how is one to learn from one's prior mistakes. It seems to me that it would be entirely possible to be re-incarnated a million times and not be any better off the millionth time than the first time if you were essentially starting from scratch each time. I don't see the benefit of each previous incarnation unless the knowledge one gained in it could be retained and used to one's benefit in the next life. Could somebody help me out here?
Two words. The experience. Whether one believes that this benefit of experience comes in the form of knowledge or the benefit comes from just BEing, it is a reason to justify any incarnation.

An example of Experiencing for BEing:
The world’s greatest rollercoaster is opening up somewhere. You have saved your money to go to his park to ride this rollercoaster and when you get there you experience the moment of what is is to ride that rollercoaster. The amusement park will not allow you to bring this rollercoaster home nor is it practical to build a house next to this rollercoaster but you have put the effort forward to accomplishing your desire. Can you come back and ride the rollercoaster? Anytime that you want.

An example of Experiencing for Knowledge
Brian L. Weiss is a prominent psychiatrist and the author of Many Lives, Many Masters. Upon helping his patients overcome certain fears, anxieties and phobias he had stumbled upon the past life regression in a way to help people identify with their fears and overcome them. One example included a woman named Catherine, who visitied him for anxiety attacks. When the author could not find a probable starting part for her fears he tried hypnotic regression and realized that her concerns did not stem from this lifetime but from past lifetimes. After a few more sessions and understanding about where these anxiety attacks originated, Catherine no longer has these panic attacks and does not required the need for anymore therapy sessions. Dr. Weiss believes that we can learn a lot from our past experiences to explain why we react to certain situations today or why we follow certain interests so compassionately. He also believes that we can discover this knowledge for ourselves. He has written many books on the subject and presents a very interesting argument to support that many people have lived many lives.

FAQ

Does everybody reincarnate many times?
No, reincarnation is not a requirement to existing and in some ways there are tale-telling signs of how many times someone has reincarnated into a particular existence. Some people have never incarnated into a physical existence or have only incarnated once.

Why do we forget when we reincarnate?
The previous knowledge of our past lives may not be relevant to this one. One can compare it to the reason why they do not pass out movies scripts to read in theaters before the start the film. Very rarely are the cases where someone remembers glimpses or large parts of a past experience but they do exist and have been documented.

Is there are karma system implied?
There is no distinction of living a good, bad, long or short life that can be applied to your next decision to reincarnate. Though a planned purpose can be arranged with other souls there is no Godly measure of justice or penalty applied to your next incarnation.

So if I live a bad or poor life I won’t come back as a bee or some kind of sea plankton?
You come back as a bee or sea plankton because you desire the experience. There are many factors why someone may incarnate into a physical existence. One consideration is the experience and another may be how long an entity wants to spend in a physical existence.

So God does not will me to an incarnation?
If God had chosen and planned your existence and purpose in a physical existence it would not be your purpose, your experience or your life, it would be a puppet's life and one cannot incarnate into an inanimate existence. An example of this could be a person who visits a travel agency to make plans to go on a vaction to Hawaii but the travel agent insists that the customer wants to go to Ireland. Why would a travel agent want to send you on a vacation where you wouldn't want to go?

Are there other physical realities to incarnate into?
Yes, BEing human is not the only possibility. There are many other species that one can reincarnate into and each experience is valid. There are even other locations and entities besides this planet Earth.
 

Pariah

Let go
Cardero's statements refer to a specific flavor of reincarnation.
It should be mentioned that reincarnation differs from re-birth as MysticSangha pointed out and differs from system to system.

In Hinduism, poor deeds in this lifetime could lead to a reincarnation as an animal. Personally, I don't understand how this is degrading, since humans are animals in the same sense as any other. Animals cannot perform bad deeds, however, and automatically fulfill their quota after they die in that body, whatever animal it may be.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
I am definitely not an expert on this subject but maybe there are some who can talk about it.

The Bible does not have many references to this. The best is the statement by Jesus that John the Baptist is Elijah.

Although the Bible doesn't talk much about re-incarnation, it also does not suggest a continuing creation. The Bible talks about creation as a one time event. If Cain, Abel and Seth were not created (the bodies), where did their spirits come from?

The best statement from the Bible is:

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

and:

Luke 16:

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments...

and:

2 Corinthians 5

Our Heavenly Dwelling

1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in (our body) is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

The Ministry of Reconciliation

11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience...14For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again..17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Cardero's statements refer to a specific flavor of reincarnation.
It should be mentioned that reincarnation differs from re-birth as MysticSangha pointed out and differs from system to system.

In Hinduism, poor deeds in this lifetime could lead to a reincarnation as an animal. Personally, I don't understand how this is degrading, since humans are animals in the same sense as any other. Animals cannot perform bad deeds, however, and automatically fulfill their quota after they die in that body, whatever animal it may be.
It's kind of a double edged sword though because if everyone would be good we wouldn't have any cheeseburgers. But at least we can know everytime we eat one we are letting someone become a human.
 
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