What is Religion Doing Wrong

[danieldemol]

All major religions preach and practice peace, and the ones who claim religion as part of their violence are neither religious or spiritual.

Ever heard of the 'No true scotsman' fallacy?
If not there is an explanation of it here: No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

Terrorists have no religion.

Ok, now you have unintentionally got me annoyed. It bugs me when people say this because;
a) It is not true for many terrorists who do follow their religion and would vehemently disagree with you that they are not following their religion.
b) It appears to imply that all the terrorists are non-religious, which I see as a kind of slur of the non religious to say that all the terrorists belong to us

In my opinion.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If religions is so great, why does there seem to be more aggression than ever in the world?

You might wish to consider brushing up on your history and sociology.

 

[viole]

Why isn't religion working? especially christianity since it is the largest religion in the world?

If religions is so great, why does there seem to be more aggression than ever in the world?

When you have high ranked priests claiming that killing women and children (in the Ucraine) is a justified fight against gays and a decadents west, in the 21st century, then I would say Christianity works pretty well. Unless you make the unsubstantiated assumption that it cannot be evil.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sand Dancer]

In my opinion, Christianity has mostly sold its soul to Trump. With actions come consequences. So if the number of Christians dips lower, they have no one else to blame. Not the left (which has hard times reaching even anything close to communism or "far left" in America), not some other rising religion, and not some sort of drops in moral values (since an equal or higher number of world problems seem to be happening within the Christian community). I try to be sympathetic, but there comes a point where you just have to stand back and watch karma play out, for better or worse.

I think Gandhi said it best when he said, "Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Of course, there are good Christians too, who don't deserve this kind of collapse on their religious institution, but I take it like the Babylon spoken of in Revelation. "Come out of her my people, be ye not partakers in her plagues."

Of course, this is a tough subject to talk. Christians may feel hurt by my words, but I'm really just talking about the evangelical movement as a religious and political movement, and not about any individual in particular. Plus I was asked.

The attitude was there before Trump. He just gave permission to take it to the nationalistic extreme many have wanted to do for decades. Christianity hasn't been about following Jesus' teachings since not long after his death. Then the recent view of biblical literalism sealed the deal. Half of Christians are on the left, so the left is definitely not to blame. It's the hypocrites that have caused the hemorrhage.

 

[Bathos Logos]

Why isn't religion working?

Religion (particularly Christianity here, but not limited to) tends to point its hopes for "help" for either its in-group or its out-group on various "things" that cannot be known to work with any level of demonstrable efficacy nor even be known to exist. And the people who put stock in these methods of obtaining "help" are entirely willing to do nothing more than offer this as help and think that they have "done their part." In other words, they offer prayer, or they meditate on the situation - and if it stops there than what really gets done? Nothing. Nothing was actually done.

Religion is one of the only areas of activity in the world that I can think of where it is perfectly acceptable to pretend to mobilize and take action, and the make-believe action is then praised by others acting under the same foolish assumptions as some sort of act of good will.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Why isn't religion working? especially christianity since it is the largest religion in the world?

If religions is so great, why does there seem to be more aggression than ever in the world?

I don't think you've established a) that "religion isn't working," and b) there is "more aggression than ever in the world." Until you've made a case that these are true, there's little point in asking "why" they are true.

Human history has been awash with aggression. Kindness towards one another, while sometimes an ideal in many religions, has always had exceptions, sanctioned by those very religions. Why, a good family outing might including taking a heretic or witch burning, and there's been no end of wars. In fact, the past 80 years have seen less real war than any other time in human history.

 

[Stevicus]

Why isn't religion working? especially christianity since it is the largest religion in the world?

If religions is so great, why does there seem to be more aggression than ever in the world?

It seems they've been bitten by the money bug. They embrace capitalism and greed, so therefore they embrace social Darwinism, violence, nationalism, racism, and hatred.

 

[Five Solas]

Why isn't religion working? especially christianity since it is the largest religion in the world?

If religions is so great, why does there seem to be more aggression than ever in the world?

What a weird question.

I would somewhat agree that the liberal west is becoming more secular. Then you observe more aggression. Logic would then look for a connection between more secular and more aggression. But you prefer to blame religion.

What kind of logic is that?

Who honestly thought a secular society will be better or safer? Think again.

 

[Five Solas]

Abrahamic religions generate hate and therefore aggression.

Sweeping statements like this is meaningless. It says something about you though...

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Why isn't religion working? especially christianity since it is the largest religion in the world?

If religions is so great, why does there seem to be more aggression than ever in the world?

Hi. Good afternoon. Simple. Chr-stianity teaches that the Law has been done away with, therefore giving rise to crime, all sorts of evil and bad character traits. Yahshua my Savior was a law-keeper. A perfect one. If Chr-stianity was teaching the Law of Yahweh as they ought to be, there would be much less evil in the world and bad character traits would be minimized. Matthew 24:12 says: "And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold." Have you read Proverbs 4:19, it says: "The way of the wicked is as darkness: They know not at what they stumble." Your question stems from not knowing why people are stumbling, but it's simple. The breaking of Yahweh's Law is why people stumble. And Chr-stianity has turned it's back on Yahweh and His perfect Law.

 

[Five Solas]

Religion (particularly Christianity here, but not limited to) tends to point its hopes for "help" for either its in-group or its out-group on various "things" that cannot be known to work with any level of demonstrable efficacy nor even be known to exist. A

You do not know anything about Christianity, do you?
If you wish to criticize Christians then do some research about us first. To criticise your own misconceptions is just silly...

 

[Five Solas]

And Chr-stianity has turned it's back on Yahweh and His perfect Law.

That is not true.
We do not reject the law. We believe we cannot be saved by trying to obey the law perfectly. The law is, therefore, the perfect reminder that we are sinners in need of salvation.
In other words, we do the law because we are saved not to be saved.
In reformed circles, we prove our faith by our deeds. Doing the will of God is a biblical obligation.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Ever heard of the 'No true scotsman' fallacy?
If not there is an explanation of it here: No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

Ok, now you have unintentionally got me annoyed. It bugs me when people say this because;
a) It is not true for many terrorists who do follow their religion and would vehemently disagree with you that they are not following their religion.
b) It appears to imply that all the terrorists are non-religious, which I see as a kind of slur of the non religious to say that all the terrorists belong to us

In my opinion.

Okay, let me rephrase what I was trying to say.

While terrorists can claim they believe in a certain religion, violence itself is never a religious action.

Yes, I know you will point things like the Crusades, which religious warfare killed tens of thousands of people. What I am trying to say is that because how all mainstream religions claims itself as non-violent, religion itself should never be used as a scapegoat to justify such measures. When terrorists caused 9/11 they didn't do it because they were Muslims, they did it because they hate America, and those two groups are often separate things.

Likewise the violence of the Crusades can't be justified from religion alone but how certain groups of people wanted more influence of their religion. Honestly spreading influence is sometimes easier just by killing whoever is there and then repopulating the area. But can that measure be justified through scripture? Not really.

I am not saying the terrorists killed others because they were non-religious either. In fact, the No Scotsman Fallacy makes a lot of sense and I withdraw what I said before about it. But what I'm trying to say is terrorism itself happens not because of religion but despite it. Most irreligious have their own morals as well, and it would be unfair to say that the lack of religion makes someone kill people. I'm not trying to say that.

All I'm saying that people typically have basic standards of ethics, whether it is implied in religious morale or is self-taught like many atheists and agnostics would understand. Maybe you could pull the No True Scotsman fallacy again with this, but people who have a basic understanding of right from wrong will not kill others unless there is some true justification for it. Self defense; for a liberal democracy; or because someone is in extreme amounts of pain all the time.

If someone doesn't have a true legitimate reason to kill someone, for an obvious and apparent reason, that person does not upload certain standards of ethics, whether those ethics come from religious vigor or is self-apparent because of their own understanding of ethics.

And therefore...

Terrorists have no moral code to back them up, even if they claim to do something because of their religion.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

That is not true.
We do not reject the law. We believe we cannot be saved by trying to obey the law perfectly. The law is, therefore, the perfect reminder that we are sinners in need of salvation.
In other words, we do the law because we are saved not to be saved.
In reformed circles, we prove our faith by our deeds. Doing the will of God is a biblical obligation.

Hi Five Solas. Good afternoon. Chr-stians have rejected the Law. They reject the seventh day Sabbath, which is Friday night to Saturday night, as Yahshua kept it, as do the Jews. They reject the dietary laws. The holy days. The Sacred Name(s) also thus rejecting the third commandment. And many other laws in the Hebrew Scriptures. You mentioned the will of Yahweh. The scriptures say "15 Look therefore carefully how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise; 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore be not foolish, but understand what the will of Yahweh is." The will of Yahweh has always been and will always be that we keep His commandments. Not some of the commandments, but all of them. If we desire the Holy Spirit, which is Yahweh's character embodied in us, we have to keep His Law, which contains His personality.

In terms of what you are saying about not being able to obey the law perfectly, perfection is something we strive for as stated by Yahshua in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:48 "Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." and with the help of the Holy Spirit we can overcome and reach a state well-pleasing to Yahweh.

If you read over your post, you should be able to see that there is some confusion in your thinking. Paul says: "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward the Messiah" Eve was instructed not to eat the tree of knowing good and evil. That was a commandment. Just as we are commanded to do the good by keeping His Law and not know the evil. Those who have done evil in the past, can recover themselves through Yahshua and change their ways. Any excuse to not keeping all of the Laws comes from Satan, just as it did with Eve. The message is simple and it is apparent throughout the whole Bible: Keep the commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12:"13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: all has been heard: fear Elohim, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole of man. 14 For Elohim will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it is good, or whether it is evil."

 

[Five Solas]

Hi Five Solas. Good afternoon. Chr-stians have rejected the Law. They reject the seventh day Sabbath, which is Friday night to Saturday night, as Yahshua kept it, as do the Jews. They reject the dietary laws. The holy days. The Sacred Name(s) also thus rejecting the third commandment. And many other laws in the Hebrew Scriptures. You mentioned the will of Yahweh. The scriptures say "15 Look therefore carefully how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise; 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore be not foolish, but understand what the will of Yahweh is." The will of Yahweh has always been and will always be that we keep His commandments. Not some of the commandments, but all of them. If we desire the Holy Spirit, which is Yahweh's character embodied in us, we have to keep His Law, which contains His personality.

In terms of what you are saying about not being able to obey the law perfectly, perfection is something we strive for as stated by Yahshua in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:48 "Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." and with the help of the Holy Spirit we can overcome and reach a state well-pleasing to Yahweh.

If you read over your post, you should be able to see that there is some confusion in your thinking. Paul says: "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward the Messiah" Eve was instructed not to eat the tree of knowing good and evil. That was a commandment. Just as we are commanded to do the good by keeping His Law and not know the evil. Those who have done evil in the past, can recover themselves through Yahshua and change their ways. Any excuse to not keeping all of the Laws comes from Satan, just as it did with Eve. The message is simple and it is apparent throughout the whole Bible: Keep the commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12:"13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: all has been heard: fear Elohim, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole of man. 14 For Elohim will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it is good, or whether it is evil."

Thank you for a decent reply. You are someone I could have a real discussion with.
I must go now but would like to respond in more detail when time permits...

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Thank you for a decent reply. You are someone I could have a real discussion with.
I must go now but would like to respond in more detail when time permits...

Hi Five Solas. Thank you. I'm also under time constraints, but I look forward to continuing this discussion with you. May Yahweh bless you.

 

[Vee]

Why isn't religion working? especially christianity since it is the largest religion in the world?

Because most religions don't practice what they preach? That would a be a good start. You know, peace and love don't work on paper only. If people, starting with religious leaders, acted the way Jesus said his followers should act, things would be very different.
It is good to note though that not all religions are the same and it's unfair to put them all in the same basket.

 

[Fool]

God is really Great
Religion 'think' it's Great

Troubles start when humbleness goes
+
More trouble if arrogance raises its hood

e.g.:
If it's claimed "my way the highway"
+
if it's claimed "your way leads to Hell"

I agree. You can't profit from what you don't dominate. It's mostly an ego trip. More so service to self type behavior

 

[Fool]

Is the issue more with the words 'doing' or 'working', and perhaps it is simply that religions can never be 'right' - or at least to all - given that we have so many religious divisions, together with those who don't need such? So perhaps failure is inbuilt to religions - given they can't all be right - and also perhaps because they rely on set points in the past (their origins), and which is often a drag on progress (and contributor to conflict), even as they try to promote peace and morality. Plus, we just have the human condition to deal with (and accept) despite what religions might say, and this might account for why so much aggression and division occurs, and probably will always occur even if we might be less aggressive than we have ever been in the past.

But isn't love, compassion about being inclusive and not exclusive?

 

[Fool]

Because most religions don't practice what they preach? That would a be a good start. You know, peace and love don't work on paper only. If people, starting with religious leaders, acted the way Jesus said his followers should act, things would be very different.
It is good to note though that not all religions are the same and it's unfair to put them all in the same basket.

But at their core compassion, love is the general idea. That can't happen, if the religious claim exclusivity