What is God's highest priority?

[Trailblazer]

Who was it, may I ask that told you that?

Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith wrote.......

“In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, ” God Passes By, p. 100

What does it mean that all the previous dispensations are abrogated?

Abrogate: If someone in a position of authority abrogates something such as a law, agreement, or practice, they put an end to it. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/abrogate

So Baha’u’llah, who was in a position of Authority vouchsafed onto Him by God, put an end to all the previous religious Dispensations.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

By your comments you agree that both men existed, I also agree. And I agree as the Bible teaches and that gives a historical account of their lives that the covenant God gave Moses has ended, Moses and the Sinai covenant all pointed to the coming Prophet /Messiah who would fulfill both the Sinai covenant and the Abrahamic covenant given to him 400 years before the time of Moses. The covenant with Abraham was that thru his seed (singular) All nations would be blessed. That was fulfilled thru Jesus Christ. All of the old testament points to Jesus Christ, and he fulfills every prophecy that is needed for Man to be restored back to the Creator. There is (per the Bible) no need for another Prophet/messiah or covenant.

So, If what you are saying is true, then according to scriptures, Jesus was a liar. I don't believe that he is. Jesus claims to be the Son of God, making him One with the Father.

if that is true, then what you claim is not true! He said "I will will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

He said in the last days he would come back to gather his elect and that they would be with him forever, and that he will then reign on this earth for 1,000 years. Then form a new Heaven and a New earth (short version of what is prophesied to happen)

By the grace of God, I am part of the Church he began and and according to Revelation, it will continue until he returns, because he (God in the Flesh) is sustaining it, Not men. And I know a few others who trust in the Living Christ whom the scriptures say Jesus is interceding for us at this very moment..

So your statement, that has yet to come to pass will only be true, if Jesus is a liar and the the Church ceases to exist.

All of the Old Testament does not point to Jesus Christ, since Jesus did not fulfill all the prophecies in the OT. He fulfilled some of them but not all of them. That is why Jews living today reject Jesus as the messiah they have been waiting for.

Jesus never said that in the last days he would come back to gather his elect and that they would be with him forever, never ever.
That is a false Christian belief that came about as the result of misinterpretation of the Bible.

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Verses that refer to the return of Christ are not referring to the return of the same man Jesus. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

Jesus Christ was a messiah but He will never be the messiah who comes in the last days. What would make Jesus a liar is if He returned to earth.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

All of the Old Testament does not point to Jesus Christ, since Jesus did not fulfill all the prophecies in the OT. He fulfilled some of them but not all of them. That is why Jews living today reject Jesus as the messiah they have been waiting for.

My apologies for not clarifying what I meant by Jesus fulfilling all old testament prophesies. I am referring to HE (Jesus) being the only one who has and will be fulfilling all prophesies. before and when (future) he returns to reign.

Luke 24:47-49​

Then he (Jesus) opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised..........​

​

Acts 1:9-11​

9. After he (Jesus) said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.​

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”​

Matthew 24:30-3`1​

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man (Jesus)in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

Regarding the Jews awaiting their messiah, this is true, they rejected him (those who crucified him) but not All Jews as Jesus of course is a direct decendent of all the patriarchs, he is the fulfillment of the promised seed thru Abraham and his descendents.

Galatians 3:16​

Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.​

Fulfillment of the promise to David regarding a descendent that would sit on his Throne

Luke 1:32 - 32 He (Jesus) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:​

HIs first advent though, was to save all mankind from their sins, this is what he first came for.

​

Isaiah 53:4-7. ​

He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.​

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.​

This why he first came to pay for yuor Sins and all of us!!.......and he will return!

And when he does those whom rejected him as their messiah will realize Jesus is the Christ the one their fathers rejected and crucified, the one whom everyone has nailed to the cross, because all have sinned. This is the one who was pierced in the side by the Roman soldier to make sure he was dead.

Zechariah 12:10 ​

And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace or unmerited favor and supplication. And they shall look [earnestly] upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him as one who is in bitterness for his firstborn.​

 

[PearlSeeker]

The God-given free will choice is to choose to obey or disobey. Only disobedience leads to death.

Death is a natural process. If God created nature he created also death. Or did you mean metaphorically?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I never understood Revelations though many have claimed they they do. However, none seem to agree.
That is kind of the problem with the written word.

I think I can understand why you say the above because many do feel the same way.
Revelation does agree with Daniel. That helps explain Revelation.
Because many think only of Heaven as a reward is a reason why Revelation does Not seem to agree.
Revelation is a revealing of the Happy Climax for: Earth. - Rev. 7:16-17
I hope you will take into consideration what Revelation has to do about: Earth.
Jesus with angelic armies comes to bring ' healing ' (Not to Heaven) but healing to: Earth - Revelation 22:2; 19:14-15
Healing for earth's nations is a reason why we are all invited to ask God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
So, to me the problem is Not with the written Word but with the many who play false to God and Jesus - Matt. 7:21-23

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That sounds like your god is quite limited if it can't find a way to communicate on a grand and global scale - but only to a few 'special' iron age barbarians who just happened to hate the same people it did. And of course a god only able to communicate to a few - with no witnesses - is precisely the same result we get if gods are invented by people hoping to rule.

To me the World-Wide Web is a 'grand and global international scale' with includes Satelite internet.
To me it is Not iron-age barbarians (some people think in the King James that Psalm 46 was translated by Shakesphere)
Shakesphere because he was 46 years old when Psalm 46 was penned and if one counts from the top of Psalm 46 counting down 46 words we find the word 'shake' and if one counts from the bottom of Psalm 46 up we find the word ' spear'.
God communicates with everyone through the pages of the Bible.
it is just that to many people Jesus is a 'stumbling block' instead of a chief 'Cornerstone'.
Jesus opened up the way to understanding for us - Luke 24:44-53 - if we want it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Death is a natural process. If God created nature he created also death. Or did you mean metaphorically?

If death is so natural why don't people naturally want death?
Yes, God created nature but nature was Not offered everlasting life. Only humankind was offered to live forever.
In Scripture 'death' is called our 'enemy' (1st. Cor. 15:26)
We welcome friends so if death was really a friend why don't more people kill themselves?
Rather, people see doctors, take pills or supplements to prolong life.
What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die ___________

 

[Trailblazer]

God communicates with everyone through the pages of the Bible.

What about the people who do not read the Bible?

 

[Trailblazer]

If death is so natural why don't people naturally want death?
Yes, God created nature but nature was Not offered everlasting life. Only humankind was offered to live forever.
In Scripture 'death' is called our 'enemy' (1st. Cor. 15:26)

It is not about what people WANT, it is about what actually IS.
God created the human body to be mortal, not immortal.
Humankind was never intended by God to live forever in a physical body.

Spiritual death is our enemy. Physical death is not an enemy that needs to be destroyed.
When our physical bodies die we are transformed. We are raised as spiritual bodies. That is the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

We welcome friends so if death was really a friend why don't more people kill themselves?
Rather, people see doctors, take pills or supplements to prolong life.
What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die ___________

People don't want to die because they don't know what is on the other side, and even if they believe in heaven, they don't know what heaven will be like. If people knew what it would be like many people would kill themselves and that is one reason God has not revealed what heaven is like.
The other reason is because we could never understand what heaven is like from an earthly perspective, since it is so different from this life.

“The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 156-157


“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

 

[loverofhumanity]

I would like to pose a question for theists, namely: what is God's top priority? I cannot prove that no god exists, but there are many types of gods that I can prove do not exist.


I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing rape and murder cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing childhood cancer cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing starvation cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing the extinction of 99% of the species he created cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having a personal relationship with all of his human creations cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having all humans believe in him cannot exist.


I could give many other examples, but I think the point has been made. If God exists, and he is omnipotent, his top priority cannot be any of the above things. So what is God's top priority? Since it seems like one of the items I listed above would be the top priority of the god of classical theism, it almost seems that if God does exist, then his top priority is to make it look like he doesn't exist.

God does not need us or anything so I believe His ambitions are for us alone, that we may be happy.

The primary purpose, the basic objective, in laying down powerful laws and setting up great principles and institutions dealing with every aspect of civilization, is human happiness; and human happiness consists only in drawing closer to the Threshold of Almighty God, and in securing the peace and well-being of every individual member, high and low alike, of the human race; and the supreme agencies for accomplishing these two objectives are the excellent qualities with which humanity has been endowed. (Secret of Divine Civilization)

When we all look out for our fellow humans according to God's wishes that will help bring about human happiness. Just believing in God without following His laws to ensure all are well looked after and live in peace will not bring about human happiness. Top priority for God is that we all follow His path of caring for one and all. God does not need anything from us.

 

[PearlSeeker]

If death is so natural why don't people naturally want death?
Yes, God created nature but nature was Not offered everlasting life. Only humankind was offered to live forever.
In Scripture 'death' is called our 'enemy' (1st. Cor. 15:26)
We welcome friends so if death was really a friend why don't more people kill themselves?
Rather, people see doctors, take pills or supplements to prolong life.
What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die ___________

It doesn't matter what we want. There is no birth without death. There is a simple logic behind this. If you want people to multiply (more and more new people to live) than you have to make room. There is not unlimited space on this planet.

 

[Trailblazer]

My apologies for not clarifying what I meant by Jesus fulfilling all old testament prophesies. I am referring to HE (Jesus) being the only one who has and will be fulfilling all prophesies. before and when (future) he returns to reign.

When I said that all of the Old Testament does not point to Jesus Christ, I meant that Jesus did not fulfill all the prophecies in the OT.

There is no reason to believe that Jesus is going to return and fulfill the prophecies that He did not already fulfill because Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Jesus never claimed to be a king, and He never said He was coming back to earth to rule.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

Luke 24:47-49​

Then he (Jesus) opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised..........​

Those verses say nothing about Jesus returning to earth. Jesus ascended to heaven in a spiritual body and that is where Jesus will remain. A spiritual body cannot exist on earth, only in heaven. Verse 50 below says our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God because physical bodies do not exist in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

Moreover, Jesus has no reason to return to earth since His work was finished here.

Acts 1:9-11​

9. After he (Jesus) said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.​

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”​

First of all, Jesus did not write those verses. Below is my interpretation of those verses.

The disciples (Men of Galilee) were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky, and then they said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. The text does not say that the disciples saw a body go up to heaven.

I believe it was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at that the disciples could see; but angels can see spirits, so the angels could see the spirit of Jesus ascend into the clouds.

"This same Jesus .... will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven"

I believe that means that the same spirit of Jesus (the Christ Spirit) will come down from heaven and will appear in the form of a human being who has the Christ Spirit. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, the soul of Jesus came down from heaven. The soul of the man who has the Christ Spirit (and thus is the return of Christ) will come down from heaven in the same way that Jesus came down from heaven. He will be sent by God.

Matthew 24:30-3`1​

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man (Jesus)in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Fulfillment of the promise to David regarding a descendent that would sit on his Throne

Luke 1:32 - 32 He (Jesus) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:​

HIs first advent though, was to save all mankind from their sins, this is what he first came for.

His first advent was His only advent. Jesus came into the world to reveal God and save all mankind from their sins, and Jesus has no more work to do.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

Isaiah 53:4-7. ​

He was despised and rejected by mankind,​

a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.​

Like one from whom people hide their faces​

he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.​

4 Surely he took up our pain​

and bore our suffering,​

yet we considered him punished by God,​

stricken by him, and afflicted.​

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,​

he was crushed for our iniquities;​

the punishment that brought us peace was on him,​

and by his wounds we are healed.​

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,​

each of us has turned to our own way;​

and the Lord has laid on him​

the iniquity of us all.​

This why he first came to pay for yuor Sins and all of us!!.......and he will return!

There is no reason for Jesus to return, since His work was finished here, and that is why Jesus is not going to return.

Isaiah 53. Jews believe it is about Israel, Christians believe it is about Jesus, and Baha’is believe it is about Baha’u’llah.
You have to read the whole chapter and each verse to determine what or who it is about.

Christians and Baha’is believe Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah but only some verses could apply to Jesus whereas all the verses can be applied to Baha’u’llah. Logically speaking then, we know that chapter cannot be about Jesus.

Regarding Isaiah 53:3, Jesus was despised and rejected by certain Jews who wanted Him executed, but He was not rejected by most men. Jesus was a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief, but He was esteemed by many men. Certainly, Isaiah 53:4, Isaiah 53:5, and Isaiah 53:8 could apply to Jesus, but they also apply to Baha’u’llah. However, Isaiah 53:9 and Isaiah 53:10 cannot apply to Jesus because Jesus did not make His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death. Jesus made his soul an offering for sin, but He did not see his seed and His days were not prolonged, so there is no way Isaiah 53:10 can be about Jesus, and that is why we know it is about someone else who would be the Messiah of the end days.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Jesus is the Son of Man

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

I am very sure, as All of Christendom is, Jesus is the Son of Man, per the scripture you cited, and he is quoted as referring to himself over 80 times, "The Son of Man".

One of many examples:
(Here, Jesus forgives sins, noone but God has this authority, and the Jewish leaders know this, BUT once again he calls Himself The Son of Man)

Mark 2:10-11 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home”​

2nd example;
Jesus begins to tell his disciples the ultimate reason for his First Advent

Mark 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again​

3rd example of over 80 quotes from Jesus calling himself THE SON OF MAN:

Matthew 26:64-66​

62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63 But Jesus remained silent.​

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God."​

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”​

(NOTE: This is more than Jesus simply claiming to be The messiah, but sitting at the right hand of God, making himself to be GOD)​

And this why the High Priest tore his clothes and said............​

65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?" “He is worthy of death,” they answered.​

​

Please read these and the one below and tell me who you believe they are referring to.

​

Matthew 24:23-28​

Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.​

​

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.​

​

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Jesus did not make His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death

The Verse: Isaiah 53: 9
He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death,
This simply means Jesus was buried with the wicked not that Jesus himself actually made plans as to where he would be buried. Again there is no confusion at all within Christianity, who this is referring to.

As for being assigned a grave with the Wicked, Jesus, when referring to Mankind calls us ALL evil!

Matthew 7:11.​

So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!​

And we are ALL, (Wicked, Evil) in that All have sinned, All have fallen short of the Glory of God (His standard for Righteousness). THIS IS THE REASON for Jesus dying for ALL the SINS of the world, And this gift of Forgiveness/Salvation is freely given and received by all who Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

In reference to the Rich, Joseph of Arimathea, a Rich man, asked for the body of Jesus and Buried Jesus in his own purchased tomb. Thus fulfilling the prophesy. It should be noted that prophesies are quite often vague. Meaning they to not spell out in detail the exact events that have taken place or that are to take place. There are over 300 prophecies that are believed to have been fulfilled by Jesus in his first Advent.

Matthew 27:57-60​

As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went​

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is the Son of Man

I am very sure, as All of Christendom is, Jesus is the Son of Man, per the scripture you cited, and he is quoted as referring to himself over 80 times, "The Son of Man".

You do not have to convince me that Jesus was the Son of Man.
Baha'u'llah referred to Jesus as the Son of man in the passage below and my belief in and love for Jesus is largely based upon this passage.
I still cry when I read it.

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

One of many examples:
(Here, Jesus forgives sins, noone but God has this authority, and the Jewish leaders know this, BUT once again he calls Himself The Son of Man)

Mark 2:10-11 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home”​

2nd example;
Jesus begins to tell his disciples the ultimate reason for his First Advent

Mark 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again​

3rd example of over 80 quotes from Jesus calling himself THE SON OF MAN:

Matthew 26:64-66​

62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63 But Jesus remained silent.​

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God."​

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”​

You are preaching to the choir. I know that Jesus was the Son of Man, and I believe that as the return of Christ, Baha'u'llah was the return of the Son of man.

The same Jesus cannot return because nobody returns from heaven and comes back to earth.
That is aside for the fact tat Jesus said that His work was finished here and he as no more in the world:
((John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30)

(NOTE: This is more than Jesus simply claiming to be The messiah, but sitting at the right hand of God, making himself to be GOD)

Well, that is completely illogical. If Jesus was sitting at the right hand of God, which I believe is true, that means that Jesus is not God.
How can someone sit at their own right hand? Sitting at the right hand of God means that Jesus was close to God, as close as one can ever be.
Jesus was in the bosom of the Father (John 1:18), Jesus was not in His own bosom. That is logically impossible.

We know that Jesus cannot be God from many Bible verses, including the following. No man has ever seen God, but we know that many people saw Jesus, so Jesus cannot be God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Please read these and the one below and tell me who you believe they are referring to.

​

Matthew 24:23-28​

Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.​

It is obvious what those verses are referring to, men who claim to be Christ and are false. As Jesus knew that many men would come clain=ming to be Christ so that is why He said that. Indeed, many men have come claiming to be Christ with an intent to deceive.

List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That website has it wrong since Baha'ullah never claimed to be Jesus and in many passages He differentiated Himself from Jesus, stating that Jesus had announced the coming of Baha'u'llah.

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Jesus Christ, He claimed to be the return of Christ with a new name.

As the Bible says he would come with a new name, so we know he would not be called Jesus.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man with a new name.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

I just love how accurate the New Testament is. Never did Jesus say that He was going to return as the Son of Man.
He only ever referred to the coming of the Son of Man.

From looking at the context we know if Jesus was speaking about Himself or referring to another man.

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and Jesus says “also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

of him also, when he cometh means there is another man involved.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall means there is another man involved

 

[Trailblazer]

The Verse: Isaiah 53: 9
He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death,
This simply means Jesus was buried with the wicked not that Jesus himself actually made plans as to where he would be buried. Again there is no confusion at all within Christianity, who this is referring to.

As for being assigned a grave with the Wicked, Jesus, when referring to Mankind calls us ALL evil!

Matthew 7:11.​

So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!​

And we are ALL, (Wicked, Evil) in that All have sinned, All have fallen short of the Glory of God (His standard for Righteousness). THIS IS THE REASON for Jesus dying for ALL the SINS of the world, And this gift of Forgiveness/Salvation is freely given and received by all who Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

In reference to the Rich, Joseph of Arimathea, a Rich man, asked for the body of Jesus and Buried Jesus in his own purchased tomb. Thus fulfilling the prophesy. It should be noted that prophesies are quite often vague. Meaning they to not spell out in detail the exact events that have taken place or that are to take place. There are over 300 prophecies that are believed to have been fulfilled by Jesus in his first Advent.

Matthew 27:57-60​

As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went​

Even if you want to argue that Jesus made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, thus fulfilling Isaiah 53:9, Jesus did not see his seed and His days were not prolonged, so there is no way Isaiah 53:10 can be about Jesus.

As I said before, Baha'u'llah fulfilled all of Isaish 53.

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

• Bahá’u’lláh was rejected by his own countrymen, and was sent into exile. His life was filled with grief and sorrow.
• The Emperor Franz Joseph passed within but a short distance of the prison in which Bahá’u’lláh was captive. Louis Napoleon cast behind his back the letter which Bahá’u’lláh sent to him, saying: “If this man is of God, then I am two Gods!” The people of the world have followed in their footsteps.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

• I read the following words of Bahá’u’lláh concerning his persecution and imprisonment: “Though weariness lay Me low, and hunger consume Me, and the bare rock be My bed, and My fellows the beasts of the field, I will not complain, but will endure patiently … and will render thanks unto God under all conditions … We pray that, out of His bounty—exalted be He—He may release, through this imprisonment, the necks of men from chains and fetters…” The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, pp. 42–3.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

• Bahá’u’lláh was twice stoned, once scourged, thrice poisoned, scarred with hundred-pound chains which cut through his flesh and rested upon the bones of his shoulders. He lived a prisoner and an exile for nearly half a century.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

• Bahá’u’lláh was taken from the black-pit prison in Tihrán for judgement before the authorities. His death was expected hourly, but he was banished to ‘Iráq and finally to Israel. In the prison-city of ‘Akká, on another occasion, “… the Governor, at the head of his troops, with drawn swords, surrounded (Bahá’u’lláh’s) house. The entire populace, as well as the military authorities, were in a state of great agitation. The shouts and clamour of the people could be heard on all sides. Bahá’u’lláh was peremptorily summoned to the Governorate, interrogated, kept in custody the first night … The Governor, soon after, sent word that he was at liberty to return to his home, and apologized for what had occurred.” God Passes By, Shoghi Effendi, pp. 190–191.

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

• Bahá’u’lláh was buried in the precincts of the Mansion of Bahjí, owned by a wealthy Muslim. He was surrounded by enemies; members of his own family who betrayed his trust after his death and dwelt in homes adjacent to his burial-place.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

• Bahá’u’lláh did see his ‘seed’. He wrote a special document called the Book of the Covenant, in which he appointed his eldest son to be the Centre of his Faith after his own passing. This very event was also foretold in the prophecies of the Psalms that proclaim:
• “Also I will make him my first-born higher than the kings of the earth … and my covenant shall stand fast with him.” Psalms 89:27, 28
• The ‘first-born’ son of Bahá’u’lláh, was named ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, which means ‘the servant of Bahá’(‘u’lláh). Bahá’u’lláh appointed him as his own successor in his Will and Testament. He called ‘Abdu’l-Bahá the Centre of his Covenant.
• Bahá’u’lláh’s days were prolonged. He was born in 1817 and passed away in the Holy Land in 1892. In the last years of his life, Bahá’u’lláh was released from his prison cell. He came out of the prison-city of ‘Akká and walked on the sides of Mount Carmel. His followers came from afar to be with him, and to surround him with their love, fulfilling the words of the prayer of David spoken within a cave: “Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.” Psalms 142:7.
• These events in the valley of ‘Akká with its strong fortress prison had been foreshadowed in Ecclesiastes 4:14: “For out of prison he cometh to reign; whereas also he that is born in his kingdom becometh poor.”

Comments from: Thief in the Night, pp. 155-159

 

[Saved by grace 2]

There is no reason for Jesus to return, since His work was finished here, and that is why Jesus is not going to return.

I don't anything about Baha, please provide scriptures of his Eminent return that directly say God is sending another Messiah other than Jesus Christ. And I personally know of NO Christians who believe anything other name/Spirit/person than the promised Return Of Jesus Christ. ALL are hoping and praying for his 2nd Advent, as is mentioned numerous times, in scriptures.
I am not sure how to help you understand, as you have already stated you don't accept the scriptures saying very clearly he will return (atleast not physically) And I am not sure why you can assume he is somehow returning "Spiritually" but yet that does not mean with a physical body. The scriptures to be honest don't state definitively one way or the other. Your opinion on that is possible, but the belief that he will come back physically I believe far outways the opinion it will simply be the Spirit of Jesus. The fact that you say he will have a different name, immediately puts up a red Flag as to it's truthfulness.

Philippians 2:​

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,​

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,​

11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,​

to the glory of God the Father.​

​

Jesus, whether it were direct quotes, which I am not going to go over again, or by means of Parables, Stated HE was returning
5.1 Signs of Impending Return

• Parable of the Weather Signs (Luke 12:54-56)
• Parable of the Budding Fig Tree (Matthew 24:32-33; Mark 13:28-29; Luke 21:29-31)
• Analogy of Lightning (Luke 17:24; Matthew 24:27)
• Analogy of the Vultures Gathering (Luke 17:37, Matthew 24:38

5.2 Watchfulness and Obedience Needed

• Parables of the Watching Servants (Luke 12:35-39; §158; Mark 13:34-37)
• Parable of the Burglar (Luke 12:39-40; Matthew 24:43-44)
• Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins (Matthew 25:1-13

5.3 Faithful Service in the Master's Absence

• Parable of the Wise and Faithful Steward (Matthew 24:45-51; Luke 12:42-46)

So may I ask, per your belief, What is this purpose for the Spirit of Jesus to return but that it won't be Jesus?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What about the people who do not read the Bible?

If we look at Luke 4:15 Jesus stood up to read.
Anyone that could 'hear' Jesus could also 'listen' as Jesus spoke.
If a person has access to the WEB or Satellite they can have access to being able to hear God's Word aka Scripture.
A person that knows Scripture can tell or read to another.
Jesus' 'sheep' do hear his voice - John 10:27 - so once a person comes in contact with Bible truth aka Scripture it has the crystal-clear ring of truth to them whether they do read or can't read for themselves.

 

[YoursTrue]

It doesn't matter what we want. There is no birth without death. There is a simple logic behind this. If you want people to multiply (more and more new people to live) than you have to make room. There is not unlimited space on this planet.

If there were no death despite what you say (that there is no birth without death), at a certain point people would stop having children. That's one possibility. Meantime, as I look around many people have children because that's what they think life is all about. So they have children in some cases born in miserable conditions, to not-so-good parents, or single parents who just got pregnant because that is their life style. Once Revelation 21:1-5 is completely fulfilled, we will see what will happen to continuation of the human race.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It doesn't matter what we want. There is no birth without death. There is a simple logic behind this. If you want people to multiply (more and more new people to live) than you have to make room. There is not unlimited space on this planet.

Very good reasoning above because that is why God set a reproduction limit at Genesis 1:28
People were only to multiply (fill) the Earth Not over fill, Not over multiply.
Thus the time was to come when procreation would stop (at least here on Earth)
Adam did Not come from death. Adam was formed or fashioned from the Earth - Genesis 2:7
Adam came to life when God breathed the 'breath of life' into His created Adam.
Adam then passed on life to everyone.
Originally there was No human death in Eden. Adam breaking the Law brought death to us. - Genesis 2:17
We can't reverse death. We can't resurrect oneself, we can't resurrect another.
So, we need someone who can resurrect us and also put a STOP to enemy death.
According to 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 Jesus is coming to put an end to human death on Earth. - Acts 24:15

 

[YoursTrue]

God does not need us or anything so I believe His ambitions are for us alone, that we may be happy.

The primary purpose, the basic objective, in laying down powerful laws and setting up great principles and institutions dealing with every aspect of civilization, is human happiness; and human happiness consists only in drawing closer to the Threshold of Almighty God, and in securing the peace and well-being of every individual member, high and low alike, of the human race; and the supreme agencies for accomplishing these two objectives are the excellent qualities with which humanity has been endowed. (Secret of Divine Civilization)

When we all look out for our fellow humans according to God's wishes that will help bring about human happiness. Just believing in God without following His laws to ensure all are well looked after and live in peace will not bring about human happiness. Top priority for God is that we all follow His path of caring for one and all. God does not need anything from us.

Certainly it makes sense that God wants us to be happy. But most of us, I daresay, are not happy a lot. So again, the Bible makes sense to me because God allowed Adam and Eve to figure things out for themselves and that's what we've been experiencing. Along with inherited death from Adam. Just not a happy prospect. But! days are said to be coming where there will be no more death. And again, chimpanzees did not write this out. Revelation 21:1-5 -- no more death, no more suffering, life everlasting.