Rather, I emphasized that you cannot discount documents in the historical record (the scriptures) by mere philosophical musings alone, something you have attempted at length.
A second ago you accused me of making you say things you didn't, yet this is precisely what you are doing here, and have done repeatedly with me through this discussion, getting angrier and angrier with me for what you believe I'm doing. You are familiar with the term projection, where you assign your own sin to another, when it you yourself doing it and they are not? In other words you hate the other person for something you hate in yourself, whereas they look nothing like what is being projected on them by ourselves. This is something we all do, by the way. It's part of our "shadow" in Jungian terms. I wonder, because that's what I see here.
I have at length explained that I do have evidences from modern and postmodern scholarship that serve as a rational basis for these things. Initially you were trying to say I'm just going by my subjective feelings alone, then that I was hearing voices which you claimed multiple times about me, and now that it's "philosophical musings alone". Did you not read my explanations I offered many times, or simply chose to ignore them? How other than "projection" am I supposed to understand this in light of the facts of what I've gone at lengths to explain my processes I do up to this point? Did you think I was insincere? Did you just skim over the words and not read them carefully? I don't understand.
I think you are indeed attempting to insult my intelligence by presuming it is fact that the mythic-literal scale is accepted universally as THE standard by which to measure anything, including religion and the facts underpinning religions.
Absolutely not. For one thing, I actually very much regard your intelligence! That's why I'm engaging at the level I am with you! I'm treating your mind as capable as mine is.
Now, your comment about the "mythic-literal scale" being used to measure "religion and the facts underpinning religions", is confused to say the least. It's not a "scale". It's a certain mode of how people perceive, translate and approach their faith. There are OTHER modes as well! Please look at the very high-level overview of these stages of faith, we all, myself included go through in faith development:
Chart of James Fowler's Stages of Faith | psychologycharts.com
This is legitimate scientific research based upon interviewing and mapping out the ways in which faith is approached and expressed by different people at different times of their life. It's very complex, yet a significant model which can be quite practical and useful to understanding what we see in religious expression,
historically, and individually. To ignore this is not something I choose to do as it has great power to explain and bring light to see where others are at in order to speak to them in those terms, if that is a goal.
If you were to actually ask me what I see as the "underpinnings of religions" I would NOT say it's mythic-literal belief. Not at all. That's a later more developed stage. It's really the mystical impulse itself found right at the very outset. If you look at Gebser's stages of consciousness he mapped out looking at cultures historically, the very first religions were
magic. Mythic religions were a later development, taking the invisible strings that people felt were connected to them through which they could make the world respond to their wishes through various rituals and acts, and shifting it away from themselves onto a deity form external to themselves. In other words the mythic stage takes the magic the person in the magic stage believes they have, and gives it to an externalized god.
This is very much what you see in the early forms of the Abrahamic religions. It's still "magic", in this sense that "miracles" are what makes the bigger things in life happen. It's just that it's God doing it, instead of themselves through ritual and incantation. Now we pray, and God does it for us. Here's some more on that:
AN OVERVIEW OF THE WORK OF JEAN GEBSER
BTW, notice that the above is actually from psychology and anthropology, and not philosophy? Please take note of this. This is not "philosophy alone" as you are now attempting to say is my approach. Note that I am offering links that support what I am saying?
Oh, I understand. You have progressed to Stage 5
Good god man, that's like saying I've
progressed to being 50 years old!
Growth just happens for a variety of reasons, and it happens at different rates for different people. I actually wished I could have been where I am now 30 years ago, to save myself all the hell you have to go through when you grow, banging your head on the light fixtures as you grow past being only 5 feet tall as you head to 6 feet tall (I painfully know this as I'm 6.3". Yes I "progressed" to 6.3 too.
Believe me, it's not without its pains. Growth just happens. And yes, there are things we can do to aide in that process, but ultimately it's nothing we do and can congratulate ourselves over.
where you can feel good about dipping shallowly or deeply into area of Bible study or meditation you like, except obedience and adherence.
What is it you are accusing me of here about insulting you? Isn't this an insult to me? Of course I obey God! That is the whole purpose of entering into the Silence that is God. You come before God wholly surrendered in Love. And you say I'm not obeying God? How dare you.
A five-year-old can read the gospels and conclude that Jesus knew His authority and divinity. But you don’t “see it” or “feel it” or—as you keep repeating, “know it” via a “wide variety of tools”.
You see, you don't accept my sincerity about how I approach these things. You scoff and and ridule them. Again, my friend, it appears you are in fact projecting yourself onto me. It is you who is doing these things you accuse me of. It's not me.
Now as far as a five year old "getting it" and I don't? Goodness. Seriously? Why should the mind of five year old be the measure of truth as an adult should understand it? Why even go to school then? And please, don't quote Jesus saying unless we become as a little child to me. It has nothing to do with the knowledge of our minds and how we think about things. It has to do with the openness of a heart in trust. I love that verses, so don't go there to prove this absurd point.
“How Paul framed his understanding” sounds spiritual.
It does? It doesn't sound spiritual to me. It sounds acadameic, which is exactly what my observation is.
The truth is Paul stated—as did other NT writers—that “if I’m lying, I’m dying.”
He wasn't lying. He was speaking the truth as he understood it. I understand that same truth differently.
You have offered not one piece of factual, textual or other evidence, which would be commonly accepted under the rules of legal evidence or scientific evidence
Why on earth does any of that pertain to the truths of the Bible? It doesn't have anything to do with legal courts or scientific research. If you want evidence as to the nature and history of the Bible, whey don't you read all the voluminous works of modern scholarship that explain all that?
I shared this link earlier, but will again if for no reason other to prove to others I'm not going by "philosophy alone". Here's tons of reference material to start the process of discovering what research shows:
Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers
to prove the Bible is mythic only and not literal,
Oh wow, have you not believe me when I've said countless times in this thread that I NEVER use the word myth or mythic to mean a fabrication or a lie? Why do you persist in repeating yourself that I am? Please explain your actions here? Why are you ignoring what I explained? You don't understand it? If so, them please be honest and ask me to clarify. This is getting really old, and offensive to me.
Also, I should believe your anecdotal experience and philosophy of spirituality rather than the scriptures, which were given by dozens of writers who agree—the scriptures are life, even eternal life, to those who adhere to their teachings.
I'm not asking you to think like me. You're asking me to think like you in order to be saved. You think others like me are in error and not following God. You judge us. I don't judge you. Who is in error here?
You have offered only that you are a former fundamentalist who has grown to understand that only the cruel and the inexact (me!) adhere to loving Jesus as He appears in the scriptures, and the scriptures themselves.
Quit putting words into my mouth, friend. These are your thoughts and words, not mine.
Yes, I am a former fundamentalist, and from that place I have a great deal of insights into the fundamentalist mind and the system that supports it. I am in fact quite uniquely qualified to talk to this. I am not however doing what you say which is saying only the "cruel and the inexact adhere to loving Jesus as He appears in the scriptures". First of all that's a lie. I did not say that.
I did say that when you, as a Christian who claims to love Jesus, judges your fellow Christian as not true to Christ because they don't read and interpret scripture the same as you, that they don't obey God because they don't approach God as you do, then you are in fact placing a stumbling block for others who are in fact sincere in faith, but just simply think differently than you! That is offensive. You have done it me in this very post!
The difference between me and your average person of faith who thinks like me, is that I am armed to the teeth with knowledge and experience and can defend the complete legitimacy of my own as well as their faith where they are at against those who attempt to dismiss it, playing God as they claim Truth in their readings and approach to scripture. You don't understand this, but you really should.
Jesus warns about judging another man's servant. He warns about putting a stumbling block before one of these "little ones". What you need to do is read the scriptures written on the heart, not look for answers on the pages of your book at the expensive of seeing the Truth expressed in Love by those different from yourself. Amen.