What in The World Are They Spraying?

[Revoltingest]

First off, it's the U.S. Navy that is doing the spraying, rense.com/general15/chemUSmilitarycontinues.htm add the http www at the beginning, i cant post links yet. and the motive has nothing to do with money, the people behind it have all the money they need,this is more about a system of control, and a means of lowering our natural vibrations, and keeping us from connecting with the creator energy, that which you people would call God, but God isn't what you think it is, religions are just another system of control. People need to wake up and see that we have been lied to for centuries about what we really are, and where we really come from. Stop listening to so called "Authority" they are only steering you away from the truth.

When I worked on flight controls for the F-18 (a carrier based plane), there was no provision for spraying systems. I had to route these controls around various systems, so I imagine I'd have seen things. Plus, these planes are heavy. To land on a carrier requires tons of extra equipment (eg, tail hook) & structural reinforcement. Carry something unessential, & that would be so much less you could carry in fuel or weapons. As it is, we just can't cram enuf killing power onto these things as we'd like. I also didn't see any evidence of mind control ray guns, time machines, teleportation devices, gravity nullifiers, espresso machines, or alien anal probes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Before addressing the idea of "chemtrails" at all,
I'd like FIRST to assume they are contrails,
and have someone explain contrails in all of their forms and appearances.

I don't want to hear that they're NOT contrails.
I want someone to explain contrails,
so we can understand that despite the differences
they are BOTH contrails,
and here is why.

Engines burning hydrocarbon fuels create exhaust products of water, CO2 & nitrogen oxides & a whole bunch of other products. Check your car's tailpipe in the morning, & you'll see the foglike stuff pouring out. It's visible because of water vapor condensation, but as the car &/or the outside air warm up, the vapor will be dispersed before it can become visible to you. (Note that this is why short trips are hard on your exhaust system....this condensate is acidic, & will rust out your muffler & tailpipe.) Jet engines behave the same way, except that they fly in the upper atmosphere, where it stays cold & the far greater amount of condensate has a longer apparent life. Contrails behave visually in many different ways because there are many different conditions up there. Less turbulence gives longer life, & differential wind speeds give snaking shapes.

Let's consider what it would take to produce a contrail. A typical modern 747 would carry about 120,000 lbs (about 18,000 gallons) of fuel for a short (3500 miles) trip. The contrails are the result of burning about 5 gallons of jet fuel per mile at cruising altitude. Now let's consider a crude hypothetical analysis of making chemtrails. Condensed water vapor is highly visible per pound, but let's assume that chemicals sprayed are equally visible. That would mean carrying an additional 120,000 lbs of chemicals. This raises some questions: Where are these huge chemical tanks on the plane? When you see a plane land & get refueled before take-off, where are the chemical trucks to load it onto the plane? How are the chemicals sprayed so that they appear to be coming from the engine? (Note that engines don't have anything other than fuel injected into their combustion chambers.) How do the airlines keep such a massive payload of secret chemicals hidden from ground crews? Why would they endure the enormous cost of ferrying an extra 100 tons of chemicals & fuel to carry the chemicals? Why is the only knowledge of this massive conspiracy in fringe outlets on youtube & conspiracy publications? How do they keep a sophisticated spraying system secret from all the technicians & engineers who build the planes?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Meh, Really, i cant be asked anymore, I have provided vast amounts of data, most of it you have chosen to ignore for whatever reason, and the only bit of the data that attracted your attention is the one bit where it talks about putting things in one's butt.

No, I talked about plenty of points that you brought up. I finally resorted to butt jokes out of frustration from the fact that you were being selective to the point of being evasive at actually responding to my questions.

Plenty of things attracted my attention, but yes, the fact that this conspiracy theory is being peddled by people who are also happy to sell you the cure to the conspiracy at $100 a bottle did stand out especially.

The original post had a video, the name of this thread is based on the name of the video, you have not watched that or any of the other video's provided, hence you can not make a valid judgment on the subject at hand, and hence you opinion is heavily biased, unreasonable and unfair. With my best intention i have no interest in continuing the conversation under these circumstances. You may challenge me further after you have contemplated all data at hand and conducted your own research to prove everyone who says that chemtrails are a real danger wrong. Only then i shall consider your argument valuable.

I don't have an hour and a half to spare today to watch a video, but I probably can spare some time tomorrow evening. So tell you what: I'll watch it then, but only if you do two things:

- personally vouch that the video is worthwhile for me to watch and contains useful, relevant information.

- acknowledge that you do agree with the arguments in the video and the points it makes.

The second item is very important, because we've already run into one case in this thread where I read a link you provided and responded to it here, only to have you dismiss it as not "your" argument.

So... are we agreed?

 

[Revoltingest]

Watch this short video.
[youtube]XRCbkBfdBrQ[/youtube]
YouTube - THE BEST AIR RACE PILOT EVER!!!
Is this proof that a plane suffering such damage can still land safely?
(It's exciting & looks real...but it's also a hoax.)
Videos on youtube are never proof of anything.

 

[katiafish]

Penguin: Deal. I do think that the video provides valuable information, to be honest with you it was first time I heard about the chemtrails and I did find the argument convincing enough to present it to the public as part of my world view. But saying that, I do allow for the fact that I require less convincing than some other people do, since I tend to function and base my judgments based on my intuition and "gut" feeling, rather than intellectual conceptualization.

 

[Magic Man]

Ok, you want me to be serious, fine. I believe it because I look out of my window every day and see huge expansive "clouds" over my house. I come from a country that has not been polluted by chemicals and i remember the sky of my childhood, it was tall, pure and blue. Sky here is hardly ever blue and crisp like that, it is always in a haze, even in clear days.

So, you believe it because of your memories of a long-gone childhood? I didn't realize the sky in London was pure and blue very often. I've only ever known it to be cloudy and rain-filled the majority of the time, even 50-100 years ago. I think you now have this idea in your head, and your memories are twisting to support it.

I am a parent, I have two kids that are at vulnerable age. As i have said before in a post you seem to have happened to ignore, I care deeply for their wellbeing and also for the state of the planet that they are inheriting. So to dismiss such claims with lightheartedness, unfortunately my consciousness does not allow me.

Do you think the rest of us don't have loved ones we care about? We're all concerned with having our friends, family and children live in a non-poisonous environment. We only dismiss these claims lightheartedly because it's a conspiracy theory that fails even at a basic level of "why and how would this be happening?".

Perhaps I am not that great at researching an information that you would deem "relevant", however, you went into all this incredible pain to prove me wrong without actually watching the film that I have provided, which is not entirely fair, as in that film a lot of the information that you have requested has been provided.

Speaking for myself, I didn't feel like spending over an hour on it. If it did answer the questions brought up by Penguin and others, since you saw the whole movie, why not just either give us the answers, or at least direct us to the exact points in the film where we can find them?

 

[Magic Man]

Hi Ultraviolet, the difference is that contrails disipate quickly because all they are is hot jet engine exaust coming into contact with the cold thin air, condensation. Chemtrails do not disipate quickly, they are a concentration of heavy metals, chicken embryos, they are designed to break down the human Immune system, as well as other sinister motives.

Contrails can dissipate quickly or evolve into a cloud, depending on the atmospheric conditions. You're not really serious with the "concentration of metals and chicken embryos", are you? And why would anyone capable of pulling this off want to break down the human immune system?

It boggles my mind how this is going on right under our noses, and no one even investigates it themselves, they accept what theyre told, that they are to reflect the suns ultraviolet rays, to ease global warming, Wake Up!! there's no such thing as global warming, If anthing, the earth is getting colder due to the pole shifts.

Wow...:areyoucra

 

[Magic Man]

First off, it's the U.S. Navy that is doing the spraying, rense.com/general15/chemUSmilitarycontinues.htm add the http www at the beginning, i cant post links yet. and the motive has nothing to do with money, the people behind it have all the money they need,this is more about a system of control, and a means of lowering our natural vibrations, and keeping us from connecting with the creator energy, that which you people would call God, but God isn't what you think it is, religions are just another system of control. People need to wake up and see that we have been lied to for centuries about what we really are, and where we really come from. Stop listening to so called "Authority" they are only steering you away from the truth.

:biglaugh:

 

[katiafish]

So, you believe it because of your memories of a long-gone childhood? I didn't realize the sky in London was pure and blue very often. I've only ever known it to be cloudy and rain-filled the majority of the time, even 50-100 years ago. I think you now have this idea in your head, and your memories are twisting to support it.



Do you think the rest of us don't have loved ones we care about? We're all concerned with having our friends, family and children live in a non-poisonous environment. We only dismiss these claims lightheartedly because it's a conspiracy theory that fails even at a basic level of "why and how would this be happening?".



Speaking for myself, I didn't feel like spending over an hour on it. If it did answer the questions brought up by Penguin and others, since you saw the whole movie, why not just either give us the answers, or at least direct us to the exact points in the film where we can find them?

Lol, would you like me to chew it and regurgitate it for you as well? You have already made it perfectly clear that you have your mind made, please dont pollute my thread anymore.

 

[Magic Man]

Lol, would you like me to chew it and regurgitate it for you as well? You have already made it perfectly clear that you have your mind made, please dont pollute my thread anymore.

No, I would just like you to answer the questions asked. It seems rather daft to have someone ask specific questions that you can answer yourself, but tell them to watch the video anyway.

Yes, my mind is made up because I've already looked at the evidence. If you don't want me in your threads, it's probably best not to start them.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you don't want me in your threads, it's probably best not to start them.

Haven't you learned anything yet? It goes.....
"If you don't want me in your threads, you shouldn't have dressed that way."

 

[katiafish]

mball1297, I have already given all the answers and all the replies that i found relevant. Once again, this is a thread about a specific film, which i have gone into trouble of posting. The fact is that you want to play word-games and are not actually interested in educating yourself. I am sorry, but it is not in my interest to participate in these games. If you would like to challenge my personal position, I would suggest that you watch the film in question and address specific points that you do not agree with. I shall have no further communication with you until then.

 

[dust1n]

I'm pretty skeptical of Chemtrails, considering something like Barium is many times heavier than the atmospheric gases, not to mention it has a melting point of like 1300 degrees F. There is nothing to suggest that if you sprayed powdered Barium in the atmosphere that it would even get close to behaving a cloud. Such a expenditure would not only be unbelievably costly, but hard to pull off because Barium isn't a very common element.

 

[Magic Man]

The fact is that you want to play word-games and are not actually interested in educating yourself.

Word games? What word games? I've already educated myself, which is why I understand the craziness of this conspiracy theory.

I am sorry, but it is not in my interest to participate in these games. If you would like to challenge my personal position, I would suggest that you watch the film in question and address specific points that you do not agree with. I shall have no further communication with you until then.

Sounds good. There's no reason to watch the film, unless it answers the questions "Why would anyone be doing this?" and "How is this even physically possible?". Does the film answer those questions?

 

[blackout]

If I really wanted to understand contrails (in depth)
I'd have to put in some effort (aparantely).
To be honest, I really don't care enough about it all to bother.

As for "chem"trails?
We eat, drink, breathe and even wash
in vast assortments of chemicals already.

We live, we die.
Life, the world, nature and people
work the way they work.
Whatever that may (or may not) be.
I'm so apathetic about it all at this point, I really don't care either way.

I'll just keep doin' my thing till I drop dead.
What else is there for me to do anyway.

(It's really what we ALL do.)

 

[dust1n]

As for "chem"trails?
We eat, drink, breathe and even wash
in vast assortments of chemicals already.

Aye. Fake conspiracies have historically been used to distract people from real ones.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Penguin: Deal. I do think that the video provides valuable information, to be honest with you it was first time I heard about the chemtrails and I did find the argument convincing enough to present it to the public as part of my world view. But saying that, I do allow for the fact that I require less convincing than some other people do, since I tend to function and base my judgments based on my intuition and "gut" feeling, rather than intellectual conceptualization.

Okay... I wasn't able to watch the film the other night, but I'm watching it now.

I'm about 7 minutes into it so far, and I notice a few things:

- so far, they've supported their main claim with no actual evidence; just "weasel word" expressions like "some say..." that this is going on. On the other side, they do note that the consensus of experts in climate science is that it's not going on.

- the filmmaker cuts back and forth between shots of TV weathermen talking about anti-radar "chaff" used by military aircraft and shots of contrails. First, the shots of the contrails aren't of chaff. Second, chaff wouldn't work for what they're suggesting.

So... I'm continuing to watch the movie. But so far, all they've established are two things:

- there are a group of people who are concerned that this is happening. How justified they are in this concern has yet to be established.

- some climate scientists have considered whether some sort of plan of spraying some sort of chemical into the atmosphere to prevent global warming might work, though they haven't taken it beyond the initial "asking questions" phase.

Everything else has been ominous music and suggestive jump cuts that appear to imply that different things are related without coming out and actually saying it.

Okay - back to the movie.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay... at 8:30, there's something that's really bothering me. The video seems to misrepresent a statement of a presenter at a geoengineering conference.

Now... it's hard to tell the exact context for what he said because there are a lot of cutaways to other visuals (which can cover up edits in the audio), he gives the statement "and by the way, it's not really a moral hazard; it's more like free riding on our grandkids." The video makes great emphasis of this and plays up the ominous nature of the quote, but when you go back and listen to all of what he said (or at least all that was included in the movie), you see that it's been taken out of context by the filmmakers:

Aerosol geoengineering looks like it is so cheap that the cost really isn't going to be an issue. This means that implementation decisions will risk-to-risk decisions: the risk of doing it versus the risk of not doing it. And it makes the problem of how we govern it fundamentally harder and different than normal.

So I've told you this: it's cheap to deliver materials to the stratosphere. That's true and I don't think that will change. But I think the more we do research, the less easy this will look and the more complicated the environmental effects will look... and that's a good thing, because right now it looks too easy. So, I think that if we do more research, we're likely to find out that it's harder and more complicated than we thought, and that side effects are harder to manage, and that's a healthy outcome that will make it easier to do the *****.

[cut]

Of course, the opposite reaction is possible. It's an empirical question: how people will actually react to knowledge about this. Another reaction is to say "if these crazy scientists are so concerned with putting CO2 in the atmosphere that they won't even think about these things, then that might actually mean we shouldn't be so concerned about the risks of putting CO2 in the atmosphere... and by the way, it's not really a 'moral hazard'; it's more like free riding on our grandkids."


***** - I couldn't make out the word. It was either "managing", "matching", or something close

 

[Magic Man]

Sounds good. There's no reason to watch the film, unless it answers the questions "Why would anyone be doing this?" and "How is this even physically possible?". Does the film answer those questions?

So, I'm assuming the video doesn't answer these questions, then.

 

[FR33MASON]

Someone had alot of time on their hands to produce a film of this topic and they are probably sitting back and enjoying the buzz created by their wittiness.